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Greco in a Nutshell

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8 hours ago, Relentless125 said:

 

Um, no.

Maybe take a look at actual examples on the senior level instead of something that happened in high school (although there's counter examples there too). Freestyle World/Olympic team members like Tyler Graff and Daniel Dennis did not have success switching over recently. Ness had a style that looked like it could potentially be good for Greco and had a Greco Fargo title. These guys were not close to being on a Greco National Team.

The guys who generally have the most success in Greco start specializing in it after high school or continue it throughout their Springs/Summers. Most D1 folkstyle coaches aren't letting their stars wrestle Greco in the summer. Especially not when they have a new RTC facility.

You may not be familiar with some names in Greco but that's more because they haven't been given the same attention as the college guys. Doesn't mean they aren't still high level athletes. You can't step away for 5 years to do folkstyle and expect to still be on the same level as a guy you may have beaten at Fargo.

It's more than just having some upper body stuff like the guys you listed. Some days at the Olympic Training Center they would do crossovers where the Greco guys would work par terre with the freestylers. Who do you think had more success?

I will concede that a really good heavyweight could make the shift and potentially do well for obvious reasons. Or 97kg. Zillmer focused on Greco first before going back to freestyle. He still won't be making a team over Hancock any time soon.

 

At lower weights, I'd agree. 

But both Ghafarri and Rulon moved to Greco because Bruce kept everyone else out of the FS team. Both have Pan Am golds in FS. At super heavy, if you can get an incredible huge athlete it can go a long ways.  Part of the reason why I think Coon didn't pan out is he still wasn't an A+ tier athlete. 

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9 hours ago, Relentless125 said:

 

Um, no.

Maybe take a look at actual examples on the senior level instead of something that happened in high school (although there's counter examples there too). Freestyle World/Olympic team members like Tyler Graff and Daniel Dennis did not have success switching over recently. Ness had a style that looked like it could potentially be good for Greco and had a Greco Fargo title. These guys were not close to being on a Greco National Team.

The guys who generally have the most success in Greco start specializing in it after high school or continue it throughout their Springs/Summers. Most D1 folkstyle coaches aren't letting their stars wrestle Greco in the summer. Especially not when they have a new RTC facility.

You may not be familiar with some names in Greco but that's more because they haven't been given the same attention as the college guys. Doesn't mean they aren't still high level athletes. You can't step away for 5 years to do folkstyle and expect to still be on the same level as a guy you may have beaten at Fargo.

It's more than just having some upper body stuff like the guys you listed. Some days at the Olympic Training Center they would do crossovers where the Greco guys would work par terre with the freestylers. Who do you think had more success?

I will concede that a really good heavyweight could make the shift and potentially do well for obvious reasons. Or 97kg. Zillmer focused on Greco first before going back to freestyle. He still won't be making a team over Hancock any time soon.

 

There are few examples b/c none of the top FS guy do greco, except maybe Coon. And Coon is not an example BECAUSE he also does greco. Also, since the world team trials are generally at the same time, it's not generally possible for a second or third place guy in FS to then compete in greco. So this hypothetical will remain a hypothetical, not  a question that can be proven by experience or evidence. 

One way to look at it is ask: How many of the greco guys who DID compete in folkstyle in college or even high school were stars? Not many is my guess.

But I do recall a few years back there was an exhibition match between Kyle Dake and a greco world champ. Dake lost, but it was close.

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coon is a horrible example across the board because he really isn't that good technically at any style... he is just huge, extremely smart, and used his genetic mutation to it's absolute fullest...

dean tried greco once... predictable result...

dennis tried it after he lost a bet with his athletes... predictable result...

i could list endless examples at age level where the results are predicatble when a super stud at folk or free actually had the ballz to try man's wrestling...

clearly, OP doesn't have any clue about a great many things, but, greco understanding even less than the rest...

but, that sure doesn't stop her from constantly mewling about greco and even starting entire threads just to **** on greco all the while not getting who the butt of the joke really is...

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2 hours ago, LJB said:

coon is a horrible example across the board because he really isn't that good technically at any style... he is just huge, extremely smart, and used his genetic mutation to it's absolute fullest...

dean tried greco once... predictable result...

dennis tried it after he lost a bet with his athletes... predictable result...

i could list endless examples at age level where the results are predicatble when a super stud at folk or free actually had the ballz to try man's wrestling...

clearly, OP doesn't have any clue about a great many things, but, greco understanding even less than the rest...

but, that sure doesn't stop her from constantly mewling about greco and even starting entire threads just to **** on greco all the while not getting who the butt of the joke really is...

Sick “z”

Get a thesaurus, for everyone, you use that word so much I’m beginning to believe you don’t actually know what it means. 

For someone who claims to know a lot about greco, you do a great job about never actually engaging in technical or detailed discussion about the style…

Just for clarification, did you ever even wrestle?

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1 minute ago, Drew87 said:

Sick “z”

Get a thesaurus, for everyone, you use that word so much I’m beginning to believe you don’t actually know what it means. 

For someone who claims to know a lot about greco, you do a great job about never actually engaging in technical or detailed discussion about the style…

Just for clarification, did you ever even wrestle?

i know exactly what it means and it is all i hear when people start bitching just to bitch...

my own personal wrestling experience has been well documented on this silly bbs...

i assume you think you are making a point, yes?

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2 hours ago, LJB said:

i know exactly what it means and it is all i hear when people start bitching just to bitch...

my own personal wrestling experience has been well documented on this silly bbs...

i assume you think you are making a point, yes?

I didn’t say you don’t know what the word means, I said you use it so frequently it seems as if you believe it applies in more places than it actually does.

my point is that you utilize a deflective, non-engaging style of half discussion which favors repetitive use of vocabulary and ad hominem turns over staying on point and actually discussing wrestling…

Wrestling seems merely to be the field upon which you hurl insults.

Maybe you are so fortunate as to be surrounded in your daily life by people with whom you can engage in unlimited wrestling discussion. Many others can’t, don’t enjoy such a luxury…

[text text text]…

[derisive text]…

[off point insult]…

[feigned loss of interest]…

[punctuation punctuation body movement in stylized text punctuation punctuation]

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8 minutes ago, Drew87 said:

I didn’t say you don’t know what the word means, I said you use it so frequently it seems as if you believe it applies in more places than it actually does.

my point is that you utilize a deflective, non-engaging style of half discussion which favors repetitive use of vocabulary and ad hominem turns over staying on point and actually discussing wrestling…

Wrestling seems merely to be the field upon which you hurl insults.

Maybe you are so fortunate as to be surrounded in your daily life by people with whom you can engage in unlimited wrestling discussion. Many others can’t, don’t enjoy such a luxury…

[text text text]…

[derisive text]…

[off point insult]…

[feigned loss of interest]…

[punctuation punctuation body movement in stylized text punctuation punctuation]

feel better?

i surely do hope so...

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12 hours ago, HawkY said:

At lower weights, I'd agree. 

But both Ghafarri and Rulon moved to Greco because Bruce kept everyone else out of the FS team. Both have Pan Am golds in FS. At super heavy, if you can get an incredible huge athlete it can go a long ways.  Part of the reason why I think Coon didn't pan out is he still wasn't an A+ tier athlete. 

I agree. That's what I conceded in my last point on the topic. Heavyweight in all styles relies a lot more on strength and athleticism than lighter weights. Heavyweight in general is a lot more upper body focused. Shultz appears to be the next guy up at heavyweight eventually. Cassiopi might also do well with a few more years of focus but Iowa doesn't seem to let their folkstylers do it.

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12 hours ago, NJDan said:

There are few examples b/c none of the top FS guy do greco, except maybe Coon. And Coon is not an example BECAUSE he also does greco. Also, since the world team trials are generally at the same time, it's not generally possible for a second or third place guy in FS to then compete in greco. So this hypothetical will remain a hypothetical, not  a question that can be proven by experience or evidence. 

One way to look at it is ask: How many of the greco guys who DID compete in folkstyle in college or even high school were stars? Not many is my guess.

But I do recall a few years back there was an exhibition match between Kyle Dake and a greco world champ. Dake lost, but it was close.

Yes, Coon is a bad example.

It appears you’re trying to say that a 2nd or 3rd place freestyler would go over to Greco and have immediate success which is ridiculous. There have been real, recent examples mentioned here which you’re ignoring such as Graff, Dennis, Dean and Ness.  

Asking how many of the Greco guys were folkstyle stars in high school kind of misses the point. They’re two similar but different skill sets so if Greco was the folkstyle of this country we might see different stars. Some take better to Greco than others.

I also remember Dake losing to Ellis Coleman in Greco during high school. It was not close. So maybe the Olympic alternates in Greco should go over to freestyle? That’s about as much sense as this topic makes and I wouldn’t have commented on it but I see it brought up too often. It’s disrespectful to the guys who actually are the best we have competing for us. It takes more time and focus than you realize. 

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1 hour ago, Relentless125 said:

Yes, Coon is a bad example.

It appears you’re trying to say that a 2nd or 3rd place freestyler would go over to Greco and have immediate success which is ridiculous. There have been real, recent examples mentioned here which you’re ignoring such as Graff, Dennis, Dean and Ness.  

Asking how many of the Greco guys were folkstyle stars in high school kind of misses the point. They’re two similar but different skill sets so if Greco was the folkstyle of this country we might see different stars. Some take better to Greco than others.

I also remember Dake losing to Ellis Coleman in Greco during high school. It was not close. So maybe the Olympic alternates in Greco should go over to freestyle? That’s about as much sense as this topic makes and I wouldn’t have commented on it but I see it brought up too often. It’s disrespectful to the guys who actually are the best we have competing for us. It takes more time and focus than you realize. 

I think ultimately the point is about enriching the greco field.  We leave a lot of very good athletic firepower on the table in the freestyle brackets, and there could be a lot to be gained from athletes taking, for lack of a better way to put it, the spencer mango route.  Spencer knew rather early on he wasn’t going to beat cejudo in freestyle, made his choice, and damn did he make a lot of Greco teams.

Especially at some of the middle-upper weights, we’ve had some rather fluffy guys competing for spots.  No offense, but outside of heavyweight, if you are anything shy of very lean and you’re competing for a spot, that speaks poorly of the depth of the field.

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14 hours ago, LJB said:

i know exactly what it means and it is all i hear when people start bitching just to bitch...

my own personal wrestling experience has been well documented on this silly bbs...

i assume you think you are making a point, yes?

My God, haha, you are abysmal at having productive discussions. You then pretend that everyone is too beneath you to go into anything further, as our minds are not capable of the knowledge you are capable of bestowing upon us.

I happen to agree with above posters, you do not actually EVER go into any technical aspect of wrestling when in any discussion on here. You just tell everyone how stupid they are, and never explain how or why. 

Life must be so difficult and lonely for you, as I couldn't imagine being so superior to everyone of my peers, that I could never relate to those peasant human beings. I feel so bad for you!

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Saw a suggestion on Twitter that we try to add men’s and women’s Greco to the Winter Olympics. I don’t necessarily think that would lure any more freestylers over who aren’t the top guys, but it would definitely get more focus on the sport.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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1 hour ago, snapspinscore said:

My God, haha, you are abysmal at having productive discussions. You then pretend that everyone is too beneath you to go into anything further, as our minds are not capable of the knowledge you are capable of bestowing upon us.

I happen to agree with above posters, you do not actually EVER go into any technical aspect of wrestling when in any discussion on here. You just tell everyone how stupid they are, and never explain how or why. 

Life must be so difficult and lonely for you, as I couldn't imagine being so superior to everyone of my peers, that I could never relate to those peasant human beings. I feel so bad for you!

i can only imagine you think this is the post that is going to really get me...

again...

thanks for your contribution...

i truly hope you don't strain anything patting yourself on the back...

 

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1 hour ago, GoNotQuietly said:

Saw a suggestion on Twitter that we try to add men’s and women’s Greco to the Winter Olympics. I don’t necessarily think that would lure any more freestylers over who aren’t the top guys, but it would definitely get more focus on the sport.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

QuintusCurtius on Twitter: "Found this 1910 photo of students "ice wrestling":  wrestling on a frozen river. No one in this photo is fat. People have  physically and morally degenerated since the early

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22 hours ago, GoNotQuietly said:

We have talked about this many times, but I 100% think smaller circles would solve most of the problems with Greco. That said, I mostly agree with LJB that Greco is actually pretty sweet as is, despite the USA being atrocious at it.

In GR, smaller circle is not the answer as that only encourages more pushing.  One element of the sport that is missing is the importance of the under hook and then the purpose of it.  The purpose of the UH is to get closer to the body for a feet to back move.  If one wrestler pummels like heck to get the UH and then PULLS the UH out, this is a form of stalling/passivity that the referees do not call.  Thus, the pummel matches vs body locks.  I think putting in a rule to prevent this would encourage more body locks and ultimately the throws.

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2 hours ago, LJB said:

i can only imagine you think this is the post that is going to really get me...

again...

thanks for your contribution...

i truly hope you don't strain anything patting yourself on the back...

 

Hopefully you watched the FS and now realize how much better it is than GR. Or you can continue with the vision problems you’ve obviously been going through. 

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2 minutes ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

Hopefully you watched the FS and now realize how much better it is than GR. Or you can continue with the vision problems you’ve obviously been going through. 

saw a bunch of wrestlers just laying on top of their opponents not even trying to get an exposure...

lots of wasted time...

whatever...

i don't hate the women's style at all...

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1 hour ago, LJB said:

saw a bunch of wrestlers just laying on top of their opponents not even trying to get an exposure...

lots of wasted time...

whatever...

i don't hate the women's style at all...

You’ve just solidified why you’re a clown! Just glad the garbage product of greco is over. 

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2 minutes ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

You’ve just solidified why you’re a clown! Just glad the garbage product of greco is over. 

whew...

glad you got that off your chest...

lean back and bask in the glow of a post well done!!!!!

you are an inspiration...

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1 minute ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

You however are not!

ZING!!!!!

you are on a roll, baby!!!!

don't stop now... i feel like you are just hitting your stride!!!!

the clown thing????

are you kidding me?????

That's GOLD, Ogal!!!! GOLD!!!!

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1 minute ago, LJB said:

ZING!!!!!

you are on a roll, baby!!!!

don't stop now... i feel like you are just hitting your stride!!!!

the clown thing????

are you kidding me?????

That's GOLD, Ogal!!!! GOLD!!!!

Haha I do get a kick out of making stupid people look even stupider!

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