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Greco in a Nutshell

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16 minutes ago, jp157 said:

You have spent a considerable amount of time extolling Greco as the “tuff guy” sport. As well as denying the fact that Greco is where many go because they have a much better chance to be competitive in it than freestyle.

You are a part of the problem not the solution. Especially because you do nothing but whine online instead of doing things to actually fix the situation. You aren’t starting a Greco club, aren’t coaching.  

it is the "tuff guy" style... it just is... that has nothing to do with me...

i have never denied the fact that many of our greco guys are there because they have a better chance to be competitive either...

this is your MO... you make up stuff to fit the narrative you want...

all i have said is that some of guys actually prefer greco and choose it which none of you seem to be able to comprehend...

as far as me being part of the problem and not a solution...

the fact alone my kids chose greco and excel at it... winning national championships... making world teams... choosing to wrestle greco in college and beyond... all that makes me a bigger part of any solution than most...

what i have going on in the background that i don't tell you about... the conversations and plans i have with our national coaches... all make me way more a part of the solution than anyone here...

so, please son...

slow your roll on your made up BS...

 

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35 minutes ago, jp157 said:

If I want someone to walk off the street and save my life by winning a fight while I’m held prisoner. I’d call Lindland. 
 

If I want someone to run a teams technical and peaking curriculum. To do Development and grow sport at lower ages. He’d be at bottom of list. 
 

 

I'll paraphrase a piece of a past conversation with a multi-time Olympic and World Team Greco coach:

"Lindland was the most un-coachable guy with good results that is now the coach of the US team."

Coaching or wrestlers?  I can't say.  

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18 minutes ago, MonagFam said:

Was he selected for his silver medal and then MMA credentials in your opinion?

the main reason he was selected is he actually applied for the job...

you see how people react to greco on this silly bbs... 

it is the same reaction out there in the real world...

he is a good coach... technically he shows good stuff... he has a plan... he actually cares...

what he also is is a very no excuses guy, which, tends to rub some the wrong way...

he also does not care if it rubs people the wrong way...

the personality type of our resident athletes did and does not always jive with that...

 

you should look up the thielke interview after 2019 worlds...

i talked with the RTC coach that thielke was training at the morning after that interview dropped...

the look on his face when i came up to rib him about it said it all...

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4 minutes ago, PSUSMC said:

I'll paraphrase a piece of a past conversation with a multi-time Olympic and World Team Greco coach:

"Lindland was the most un-coachable guy with good results that is now the coach of the US team."

Coaching or wrestlers?  I can't say.  

lindland stories are legendary...

his training partners did not like him...

sieracki damn sure still hates him...

the russian mob almost killed him...

he is one of those cats...

again...

i think he is actually a good coach...

i am not totally convinced he is the right coach...

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30 minutes ago, LJB said:

it is the "tuff guy" style... it just is... that has nothing to do with me...

i have never denied the fact that many of our greco guys are there because they have a better chance to be competitive either...

this is your MO... you make up stuff to fit the narrative you want...

all i have said is that some of guys actually prefer greco and choose it which none of you seem to be able to comprehend...

as far as me being part of the problem and not a solution...

the fact alone my kids chose greco and excel at it... winning national championships... making world teams... choosing to wrestle greco in college and beyond... all that makes me a bigger part of any solution than most...

what i have going on in the background that i don't tell you about... the conversations and plans i have with our national coaches... all make me way more a part of the solution than anyone here...

so, please son...

slow your roll on your made up BS...

 

You’d be easier to take seriously if 90% of your responses actually were about wrestling and not self aggrandizing. You only give real responses when pressed and only then reluctantly. You also will repeatedly make a point and only back down when directly called out. The discussion over what athletes are in Greco being a primary example 

Lol. Congrats to your son. Not really sure how that actually helps Greco overall. Since you have the backwards hat view of not believing burnout and peaking our athletes too young is a thing. as well as wanting wrestling to stay a niche sport.

 

And if you are going to be a dad helping fund some camps and training opportunities. Good on ya. That makes you a valuable supporter. I’d focus on that as your way of being seen as legitimate. Your current routine isn’t cutting it

 

 

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3 minutes ago, jp157 said:

You’d be easier to take seriously if 90% of your responses actually were about wrestling and not self aggrandizing. You only give real responses when pressed and only then reluctantly. You also will repeatedly make a point and only back down when directly called out. The discussion over what athletes are in Greco being a primary example 

Lol. Congrats to your son. Not really sure how that actually helps Greco overall. Since you have the backwards hat view of not believing burnout and peaking our athletes too young is a thing. as well as wanting wrestling to stay a niche sport.

 

And if you are going to be a dad helping fund some camps and training opportunities. Good on ya. That makes you a valuable supporter. I’d focus on that as your way of being seen as legitimate. Your current routine isn’t cutting it

 

 

it doesn't matter what i say here or not...

you silly ass will just take bits and pieces and make up the rest to fit whatever you want so you can feel good about your narrow view of the world...

that is an undeniable fact...

keep living your best life and i will keep actually doing something no matter what you choose to believe or not...

i still like you better than most of these jackasses and damn sure more than the resident blogger...


**big kisses**

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Greco is not more popular worldwide.  At international open tournaments outside of Scandinavia the entries for FS are far higher than Greco.  At the countries where wrestling has the highest success and largest fan followings FS is more prominent.  Of the popular wrestlers in each style you will find that the FS wrestlers have larger followings on set metrics like social media sites.  TV viewership is always higher for FS events.

LJB is spewing an uninformed lie by continuing to suggest that Greco is more popular worldwide.  Its not.  He only says it as fact because there are more world championship entries and that he has been "overseas".

Greco will be fine without me though.

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1 minute ago, Class said:

Greco is not more popular worldwide.  At international open tournaments outside of Scandinavia the entries for FS are far higher than Greco.  At the countries where wrestling has the highest success and largest fan followings FS is more prominent.  Of the popular wrestlers in each style you will find that the FS wrestlers have larger followings on set metrics like social media sites.  TV viewership is always higher for FS events.

LJB is spewing an uninformed lie by continuing to suggest that Greco is more popular worldwide.  Its not.  He only says it as fact because there are more world championship entries and that he has been "overseas".

Greco will be fine without me though.

quality post...

thanks for your contribution...

you should feel very proud of yourself...

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1 minute ago, Class said:

It also isn't the "oldest" version of wrestling, a common misconception.  Greco's foundation come from a French folkstyle that doesn't date back to the origins.

it is close to what wrestling was when it was developed as a training tool for the soldiers out in the field... damn sure much closer than any leg grabbing style...

but...

again...

be proud!!!!! 

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3 minutes ago, GockeS said:

i would think if i was a soldier i would want any tool available to kill my opponent, including 'leg grabbing'

but i wouldn't want LJB

what you think has absolutely no bearing on what actually happened...

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3 minutes ago, GockeS said:

and what you claim has no bearing on anything

 

except...

it does...

sorry not sorry...

anyway...

you keep living your best life as well!!!

i am pulling for all of you guys...

each and every one of you...

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2 minutes ago, GockeS said:

its funny how you dont realize that you trying to belittle us reveals how low you really are as a human.

i mean, i can't imagine anyone hanging around you for more than a few moments.

and yet...

you keep chasing me around this silly bbs for years now...

**I <heart> U**

 

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4 hours ago, jp157 said:

If I want someone to walk off the street and save my life by winning a fight while I’m held prisoner. I’d call Lindland. 
 

If I want someone to run a teams technical and peaking curriculum. To do Development and grow sport at lower ages. He’d be at bottom of list. 
 

 

I think this is right. I don't know if Lindland is a "bad coach" per se, but a major job of the head coach is to set the culture and the climate for success, and that is absolutely not happening in USA Greco right now.  It is very much tough guy bull**** and alternating between complete neglect and chronic overtraining of the athletes, by all accounts I have heard. The technique is bad, but the morale is even worse. It's a tough job, and it's not all his fault, but he is extremely replaceable. I don't know the guy, so I don't want to be too insulting, but he is far from a visionary who can turn around a whole program. 

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i was washing the day off of me just now and an important point dawned on me...

of the 4 athletes qualified for the olympics, only one of those was what anyone would consider a resident athlete and under lindlands direct supervision...

and that athlete has had a somewhat stormy past and was training almost exclusively in europe before the boogie bug hit...

the rest were either marine greco or WCAP...

so...

how much of this can we really blame lindland for?

how much influence does the greco national team coach have in reality?

should you guys be blaming loukides instead?

how about mango?

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I'll chime in with my fifty cents, for those who are commenting or questioning the US Greco program, versus looking to egg on LJB or put Greco enthusiasts in a box.   Admittedly, I've never wrestled on the Senior level, but I've gotten to share in the trials and tribulations of wrestlers who've achieved varying success on that level.   

1.  GRECO VERSUS FREESTYLE-Rather than comparing Greco & Freestyle to Soccer & Football, I think a more appropriate comparison is Boxing & MMA.  They are similar sports, but there are significant enough differences that don't necessarily mean that success in one automatically translates to the other.   Along with that,  I see similarities in how MMA fans talk about boxing being boring, as it's more about jabs and setting up the knockouts versus takedowns and submissions.  This is where it truly is critical for someone to focus on Greco at an early age, if you want to have a shot at international (not just domestic)  success. 

2.  SUCCESS IN THE COLLEGE RANKS--There's no doubt that the majority of our successful high school wrestlers aspire to wrestle folkstyle at an NCAA program.   I'd bet that several who've posted on this thread are unaware of the Greco program at NMU, much less the wrestlers who are up there training.   Every year, there are a few wrestlers who could have been listed as a strong Folkstyle recruit, but in general, the wrestlers that are recruited for NMU are either Greco nuts (yes, they do exist) or diamonds in the rough.   Historically, the program has had success with some of each, but rarely is there a name up there that registers with the folkstyle crowd.  

3.  FUNDING FOR LIFE ON THE SENIOR CIRCUIT: IMHO, this is the biggest challenge to growing the senior level program.   Outside of wrestlers who are either committed to being broke and single or those with well off families to support them, the senior Greco wrestlers are typically left with a choice of either joining the Army WCAP or working while training, if they have a family to support.   It's a chicken/egg situation, as sponsors are going to be reluctant to sponsor anyone who is wrestling in a less popular sport that hasn't had much success, which in turn steers the popular wrestlers to Freestyle.   This is an area where I think USA wrestling could help the Greco program by providing athletes with some type of agent support to find sponsorships and other funding to allow them to focus on training.  

4.  SUCCESS OF FREESTYLE WRESTLERS IN GRECO- Just as the crossover between boxing and MMA, there are athletes who can compete in both successfully, but people who think the number 2 freestylers could walk through a Greco tournament don't have an understanding or respect for the differences.   There was a reason that Kyle Dake wrestled an exhibition against a world champ, rather than the top US wrestlers at that time.  He got a nice paycheck with nothing to lose.  It was the world champ and nobody expected him to win.   The match was close because it was intended to be exciting.   Word out of his camp was that his training partners held back, and they weren't necessarily the top guy at the weight.   Could Kyle Dake have trained and reached a potential to win a spot on the world team?  I would have loved to see the battles between Dake and Bisek if he'd have gone that route, but I don't think he was willing to take that risk for the peanuts that you get as a Greco wrestler. 

5.  AVAILABILITY OF TRAINING PARTNERS-- With all of the previously stated shortcomings around US Greco, finding training partners to stimulate growth and development is tough in the US.  With freestyle's connection to folkstyle, you can find training partners who will challenge a wrestler in nearly every state.  With the limited number of senior Greco programs, the options are limited.   This makes foreign training partners essential to those who want to be successful.   When you add the costs of these arrangements, though, it just adds to the financial challenges that the athletes face. 

As a fan of the program, I've come to expect mediocrity, at best.   Without funding to draw stronger talent consistently and support athletes as they train, I think it's unreasonable to expect different results.   We will continue to have some breakthroughs, but they will be the exception. 

Understand, this isn't a dig on the wrestlers or even the coaches. Some wrestlers turned to Greco because they couldn't run with the big dogs in freestyle, but there are many who flat out love the sport and the competition. You might not enjoy Greco, but at least give them respect for continuing to grind and chase their dreams. 

Edited by Oily Bohunk

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2 hours ago, LJB said:

FWIW...

it has to be said that the vast majority of actual practices are run by coach mohhamed...

That actually doesn’t matter if he can’t make the cultural or institutional changes needed.. everything comes back on the head coach. They establish the culture. 

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Just now, jp157 said:

That actually doesn’t matter if he can’t make the cultural or institutional changes needed.. everything comes back on the head coach. They establish the culture. 

Are you blaming or giving credit to zadick this week?

more just making up whatever fits your narrative better?

asking for a friend...

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