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Draws are out for 57kg and 86kg!

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11 minutes ago, wrestlingphish said:

It's up to the wrestlers to earn their seeds not UWW to give them. This has been rehashed a million times over.

Common sense has to prevail at some point. The Matteo Pellicone didn't even have a Russian freestyle team and was held before several countries even determined their Olympic reps. Poland Open was after the countries' trials and featured the B-team from most major countries. Zahid Valencia would have most likely been the number one seed at 86kg and he didn't even come close to qualifying for the Olympics.

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1 hour ago, spladle08 said:

I've said it 46x I'll say it again Ravi wins the weight :)
But as everyone else has said, great draw for Gillywampus

If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask Frank Rizzo because he knows more than me.
 

I love this pick. Ravi can absolutely win the weight

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39 minutes ago, Jrr277 said:

Common sense has to prevail at some point. The Matteo Pellicone didn't even have a Russian freestyle team and was held before several countries even determined their Olympic reps. Poland Open was after the countries' trials and featured the B-team from most major countries. Zahid Valencia would have most likely been the number one seed at 86kg and he didn't even come close to qualifying for the Olympics.

How would you fix seeding? There need to be criteria set ahead of time. It can’t be based on who you or I think is better. 

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It's up to the wrestlers to earn their seeds not UWW to give them. This has been rehashed a million times over.
The problem is how the seeding is implemented. Micic earned his seed and got screwed.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

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The problem is how the seeding is implemented. Micic earned his seed and got screwed.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

I mean did he? He avoided the other seeded guys which is the goal right?
Got a quarter full of unseeded athletes :) maybe Takahashi got screwed by drawing the 1 seed :)

If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask Frank Rizzo because he knows more than me.

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1 hour ago, Crotalus said:

The problem is how the seeding is implemented. Micic earned his seed and got screwed.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk
 

Individual athletes value seeds because they can and do affect final placement. But from the perspective of a disinterested tournament organizer, seeds are valuable because they keep the best wrestlers separated.

Here, only four wrestlers are seeded, and those seeds are based on who actually performed at specific tournaments.  So of course these seeds will not work perfectly.

But still, the current seeding system is doing well enough at preventing brackets from being egregiously imbalanced. (Obviously, there’s room for improvement.)

Edited by Katie

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DT's first opponent is Shabanau (a Dagestani now wrestling for BLR), who has moved up over time from 70 KG to 74KG  then 79 KG and now 86 KG (which is more or less what DT has done since beginning college, though skipping 79 KG).

Taylor will have a length (height) advantage on him.  One of Shabanau's main go-to moves seems to be a throw-by from an underhook, particularly from the left side. 

Here are some highlights of Shabanau's matches if you might want to see him in action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFAlhiNLQm4

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Micic got "screwed" just as much as he's fortunate to get a 1 seed in the first place.  Absolutely nobody thinks he's one of the two best guys at the weight.  The system is clear, laid out and a decent compromise based on how little people compete.  I mean before the other guy missed weight at last chance Takahashi wasn't even Japan's rep. 

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29 minutes ago, Shiraz123 said:

I say either Shabanau or Amine beats him

Generic wrester- work hard, eat right, enjoy the grind and get ready to beat anyone. * Gets drawn in with favorite and second favorite back to back

Deepak-  Just pick the right weight dude  and you can't lose to who you don't get drawn in with. Work on your karma instead of living in the gym. Excuse me now,  I have  to polish my medals. *Laughs in Deepak Punia. 

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7 hours ago, bnwtwg said:

I would not be surprised if Naifanov withdraws day 2 and that’s how I see Reichmuth sneaking another bronze. Punia is going to have a wall full of medals where he was in the right place at the right time. Amine, while I root for him, may get bronze and isn’t even the best 86 in his own room (Ringer) or country (Nickal, Zahid, possibly PD3) so kind of hard to fully appreciate.

Again, not trying to be a hater but I’m still on my first cup of coffee so sorry if I’m coming across that way.

No joke some of these brackets feel watered down - the olympics I want to see a gauntlet deep and talented field.  And I don't want to see double bronzes. Just think an entire weight of wrestling has less guys than just 1 team of these team events, handball, softball, etc. If it's about participants that's what needs to get axed.

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25 minutes ago, Sublime607 said:

Just like the great Jordan Burroughs once said "all I see is gold". Seeding doesn't mean much if that's the ultimate goal.

That's not true.  Assume there are great wrestlers and bad wrestlers.  A great wrestler beats a bad wrestler 95% of the time, but if 2 great wrestlers face each other, their odds of winning are each 50-50.  

Say there is an 8 man bracket with 5 wrestlers who are great and 3 wrestlers who are bad.   4 of the great wrestlers are all drawn on the same side and the 5th great wrestler is on the other half of the bracket with the 3 bad wrestlers.  The great wrestler with the lucky draw has over a 45% chance to win gold.  The other great wrestlers have a 12.5% chance to win gold.  That's a big difference!

Now, in real life, it may not be quite this extreme because generally matches aren't truly 50-50.... someone is a little bit better.  But there are certainly a lot of matches where on any given day, either guy is capable of winning.  There is also the luck that goes along with officials' decisions, etc.  So it probably doesn't matter quite as much as this theoretical example would suggest,  it does make a difference.... it is easier to beat 1 elite wrestler than 3!

 

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4 hours ago, spladle08 said:

I mean did he? He avoided the other seeded guys which is the goal right?
Got a quarter full of unseeded athletes :) maybe Takahashi got screwed by drawing the 1 seed :)
 

In a perfect world, were all the best guys are seeded, then yes. But that's not how the system is working out.

4 hours ago, Katie said:

Individual athletes value seeds because they can and do affect final placement. But from the perspective of a disinterested tournament organizer, seeds are valuable because they keep the best wrestlers separated.

Here, only four wrestlers are seeded, and those seeds are based on who actually performed at specific tournaments.  So of course these seeds will not work perfectly.

But still, the current seeding system is doing well enough at preventing brackets from being egregiously imbalanced. (Obviously, there’s room for improvement.)

But they only keep the best wrestlers separated if the best wrestlers are seeded. As a fan, I want to see the best guys in the medal matches, not the first round. I don't have an answer to the problem, because I don't think you can just pick and choose seeds based on past results and the eye test, but I don't think the current system is a whole lot better than a completely random draw. I don't really care how Micic does, but his bracket highlights the flaw. If it's "up to the wrestlers to earn their seed", then Micic did that and this draw is somehow is reward.

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This is the United States of America, snd we have people saying that a seeding system where all federations had equal knowledge of the criteria and equal opportunity to achieve said criteria, in a manner is earned and only earned through what you actually do, is not the right way to do seeding. 
 

Says a lot about the current mental state in the United States of America. Lord what happened to us???

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a long time ago, in a state far, far away...

there was a seeding meeting for a tournament...

one of the competitors fathers listed his kid's seeding criteria...

"A Real Tough Kid"

that poor kid has been known as RTK in my circle since...

 

complaining about seeds are for fan bois and coaches who are trying to protect their jobs...

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Lurker said:

This is the United States of America, snd we have people saying that a seeding system where all federations had equal knowledge of the criteria and equal opportunity to achieve said criteria, in a manner is earned and only earned through what you actually do, is not the right way to do seeding. 
 

Says a lot about the current mental state in the United States of America. Lord what happened to us???

I don't know that's what they are saying. They are saying that the best guys-- based on results, just not the results that lead to seeding-- are not necessarily the top seed. It's not crazy even if it ignores that the victims of the seeding could have acted to improve their seeds.

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5 hours ago, Sublime607 said:

Just like the great Jordan Burroughs once said "all I see is gold". Seeding doesn't mean much if that's the ultimate goal.

This is not meant or intended as snark.

All jordan saw was gold, but he has pulled down a of bronze and other non-gold results behind other dudes who saw more gold than he did.

For lack of a better analogy, if I have to drive 300 miles to get to Denver, I’d much rather be driving from Kansas than Utah.  Technically the same distance, but not all miles are equal.

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1 minute ago, LJB said:

@Drew87 if i use the term mewling again for @NJDan whining about the seeding process will it prompt another impassioned post from you?

asking for a friend...

lol nah, if that’s your favorite word choice for mr jersey, I’ll keep myself on the sidelines.

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