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MonagFam

Why no Greco for Women?

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So many clever jokes to be made.... But I'll be respectful and giggle at the comments of others privately.

If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask Frank Rizzo because he knows more than me.

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25 minutes ago, MonagFam said:

Ok, I feel this could have been answered with a simple google search, but I like the banter and other info on the forum.

 

Is there a reason Greco is not for women? 

Allegedly because of anatomical issues. But they're supposedly adding beach wrestling for women. 

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2 minutes ago, TripNSweep said:

Allegedly because of anatomical issues. But they're supposedly adding beach wrestling for women. 

Ok...I wondered if it was a physical thing.

 

I saw womens beach wrestling on the french lutte youtube channel not long ago.

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we have only had women's wrestling in the olympics since 2008(ish)...

in many parts of this world where international wrestling is revered they are still not even allowed an opinion much less an avenue for competition...

that maybe hyperbolic, but, you get the overall point...

baby steps is all i'm saying...

 

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I'm not sure if it's inevitable, but it seems to be a matter of time. 

Women's freestyle world championships go back to 1987, and it debuted at the Olympics in 2004. 

We see the breath of participation growing across the World, and I think the growing depth is on display at this year's Olympic Games. I've been struck by the athleticism in the 76 and 68 classes, in particular. 

It's disrupted gender expectations, presumably everywhere, but I think it will still take time to reach a critical mass of competitors to add Greco for women. 

As for anatomy, I don't think that really matters. If the rules are the same, then we'd see women create ways to score points within them. Like with Freestyle, men and women score a little differently. I doubt we'd see the suspenseful lifts from par terre with women, but I imagine we'd see them go out front more. I think there's additional challenges about gender expectations in some of the countries with great Greco traditions that are more important that the anatomy subject. 

I don't know if it would be the best move forward as far as growing opportunities for women. It seems like beach wrestling would draw more fans, and without fans we don't have professional athletes. 

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3 minutes ago, LJB said:

we have only had women's wrestling in the olympics since 2008(ish)...

in many parts of this world where international wrestling is revered they are still not even allowed an opinion much less an avenue for competition...

that maybe hyperbolic, but, you get the overall point...

baby steps is all i'm saying...

 

Ok.  That makes sense. I didnt consider the newness factor.  Thread after thread discusses how the US may be behind because of years or folkstyle and how it is hard to just flip to the international disciplines.  Add women going into freestyle slowly...it isnt as if Greco would just explode with high quality matches and participation.

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Just now, denger said:

I'm not sure if it's inevitable, but it seems to be a matter of time. 

Women's freestyle world championships go back to 1987, and it debuted at the Olympics in 2004. 

We see the breath of participation growing across the World, and I think the growing depth is on display at this year's Olympic Games. I've been struck by the athleticism in the 76 and 68 classes, in particular. 

It's disrupted gender expectations, presumably everywhere, but I think it will still take time to reach a critical mass of competitors to add Greco for women. 

As for anatomy, I don't think that really matters. If the rules are the same, then we'd see women create ways to score points within them. Like with Freestyle, men and women score a little differently. I doubt we'd see the suspenseful lifts from par terre with women, but I imagine we'd see them go out front more. I think there's additional challenges about gender expectations in some of the countries with great Greco traditions that are more important that the anatomy subject. 

I don't know if it would be the best move forward as far as growing opportunities for women. It seems like beach wrestling would draw more fans, and without fans we don't have professional athletes. 

Thanks!   I just replied to another post, but I could have put this here too.  It makes sense!

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2 minutes ago, denger said:

I'm not sure if it's inevitable, but it seems to be a matter of time. 

Women's freestyle world championships go back to 1987, and it debuted at the Olympics in 2004. 

We see the breath of participation growing across the World, and I think the growing depth is on display at this year's Olympic Games. I've been struck by the athleticism in the 76 and 68 classes, in particular. 

It's disrupted gender expectations, presumably everywhere, but I think it will still take time to reach a critical mass of competitors to add Greco for women. 

As for anatomy, I don't think that really matters. If the rules are the same, then we'd see women create ways to score points within them. Like with Freestyle, men and women score a little differently. I doubt we'd see the suspenseful lifts from par terre with women, but I imagine we'd see them go out front more. I think there's additional challenges about gender expectations in some of the countries with great Greco traditions that are more important that the anatomy subject. 

I don't know if it would be the best move forward as far as growing opportunities for women. It seems like beach wrestling would draw more fans, and without fans we don't have professional athletes. 

^^agree with all...

in many respects, i like watching women's wrestling at the high levels because they have to be technical and not just use the brute strength that they simply do not possess...

it is a very entertaining product at the highest levels...

if they had greco it would look different than men's greco. but, be at least as equally good... may even open up some eyes and help develope different techniques for the men to use...

i would be all for it...

but...

whatever the media and fey dudes on campuses across this country want you to believe, their are differences between men and women and i am not sure how many would actually go towards greco just because of the realities of the sport...

i am willing to admit that may be a little sexist to some...

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9 minutes ago, MonagFam said:

Ok.  That makes sense. I didnt consider the newness factor.  Thread after thread discusses how the US may be behind because of years or folkstyle and how it is hard to just flip to the international disciplines.  Add women going into freestyle slowly...it isnt as if Greco would just explode with high quality matches and participation.

Also, women wrestle freestyle in college. 

I'm not sure how many international student-athletes will come to the US for opportunities here, but I've seen quite of bit of that in Triathlon, another "emerging ncaa" sport. 

Edit: we see a little bit of that in men's wrestling, but it's not as common because they'd have to come over here and wrestle folk. If there's not a really good RTC, I don't know why any international men would come over here.

Edited by denger
additional thought

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I've thought that it was probably related to anatomic differences between biological males and females.  Females simply do not have the upper body strength than males do, and many competitors may not gravitate toward a style of wrestling with such limitations.  

This difference, although significant, is probably not insurmountable.  In judo, for example, throwing is obviously a huge part of the sport, and female competitors compensate for less limb strength by increasing their hip movements, where they definitely do have an advantage.

Beyond that, it's probably a cultural thing as well.  Women's wrestling is still developing throughout the world, and the interest in having women Greco competitors is simply not there yet, especially in areas of the world where women's freestyle is still trying to establish itself.  

Maybe someday they'll have women's Greco, but I wouldn't think for quite a long time.

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17 minutes ago, LJB said:

^^agree with all...

in many respects, i like watching women's wrestling at the high levels because they have to be technical and not just use the brute strength that they simply do not possess...

it is a very entertaining product at the highest levels...

if they had greco it would look different than men's greco. but, be at least as equally good... may even open up some eyes and help develope different techniques for the men to use...

i would be all for it...

but...

whatever the media and fey dudes on campuses across this country want you to believe, their are differences between men and women and i am not sure how many would actually go towards greco just because of the realities of the sport...

i am willing to admit that may be a little sexist to some...

I have watches junior aged womens competitions in Russia and I have been highly entertained.  I know there arent a ton of choices for girls in the US, I just dont like the mixed gender folkstyle matches I have watched. It has nothing to do with me believing girls can be good or provide entertaining matches.

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10 minutes ago, LJB said:

in many respects, i like watching women's wrestling at the high levels because they have to be technical and not just use the brute strength that they simply do not possess...

it is a very entertaining product at the highest levels...

if they had greco it would look different than men's greco. but, be at least as equally good... may even open up some eyes and help develope different techniques for the men to use...

i would be all for it...

but...

whatever the media and fey dudes on campuses across this country want you to believe, their are differences between men and women and i am not sure how many would actually go towards greco just because of the realities of the sport...

i am willing to admit that may be a little sexist to some...

Maroulis' comes to mind with her innovative scoring - her 2016 performance made me a much bigger fan of women's wrestling. 

The wrestling community is sexist, and we're working on that, which all we can do. We can't expect millennia of gender roles to change immediately..."baby steps", as you say. I'm not sure if women's wrestling will ever have the appeal that volleyball, gymnastics, and the racing sports do - but they all have their sexism, too. 

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2 minutes ago, MonagFam said:

I have watches junior aged womens competitions in Russia and I have been highly entertained.  I know there arent a ton of choices for girls in the US, I just dont like the mixed gender folkstyle matches I have watched. It has nothing to do with me believing girls can be good or provide entertaining matches.

I just think of women's wrestling and men's wrestling as different sports. There's entertainment value with the mixed gender relay races - just seeing the gaps in size and speed and strategy to overcome it. I've never enjoyed watching girls wrestle boys in competition - it's a pretty violent sport, and there's no good reason to promote violence, especially across genders. There's something good about clubs where they train together, though. There's plenty to learn from one another, both technically and socially. 

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26 minutes ago, denger said:

Maroulis' comes to mind with her innovative scoring - her 2016 performance made me a much bigger fan of women's wrestling. 

this...

before her concussions, i would argue with anyone that she was the best wrestler in this country and i didn't think there was really close second...

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35 minutes ago, Katie said:

The lack of female Greco wrestlers could be because a new market for wrestling participation has decided that Greco is boring. 

Im more curious about what other markets for Greco would think of women's Greco. I'm sure it's less much less marketable in Iran than in the US.

The barriers for women's wrestling are falling fast in the USA, and NCAA women's wrestling is poised to take us to an extraordinary new level. I won't pretend to know why we were later to the game than Japan and China - two cultures with plenty of gender barriers. 

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21 hours ago, Katie said:

The lack of female Greco wrestlers could be because a new market for wrestling participation has decided that Greco is boring. 

Many people in the U.S. said soccer would never catch on here...too boring.  How did that happen?

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My take...if women wanted to wrestle greco there would be woman's greco.  Not sure there is anything stopping them at this point.  We can throw gender this and gender that around all we want, but literally there is nothing stopping them from doing it other than excuses from people that aren't women.  If there was woman's greco I'd watch...I just love wrestling no matter what the gender.

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