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Discussion thread for 57kg (m), 57kg (w), and 86kg (m)

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12 minutes ago, Silhouette94 said:

Kawai was literally bullying and controlling position against Maroulis for a great majority of the match, don't act like the referee gave Kawai the win and that Maroulis was always going to lose lmao

They have pushouts for this very reason. kawai got no pushouts, grabbed fingers for 5 minutes, and grabbed an ankle for a few seconds.

David taylor bullied deepak, kawai did not bully helen.

Edited by Drew87

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1 minute ago, Drew87 said:

They have pushouts for this very reason. kawai got no pushouts, grabbed fingers for 5 minutes, and grabbed an ankle for a few seconds.

David taylor bullied deepak, kawai did not bully helen.

Simple solution for Helen... score a takedown.

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10 minutes ago, Silhouette94 said:

Kawai was literally bullying and controlling position against Maroulis for a great majority of the match, don't act like the referee gave Kawai the win and that Maroulis was always going to lose lmao

So your saying bullying , blocking, shoving and under hooking  won Kawai the match. This wasn"t a heavyweight match where it is very commoh to use those tactics.

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12 minutes ago, Chet Hanson said:

Yes. Go get takedown and good things will happen. It's better than hand fighting and hoping the refs hook you up.

So how many olympic and world champs did you wrestle and beat them by taking them down?

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6 hours ago, Jrr277 said:

At least he was able to compete. Both he and Amine received a coveted Olympic spot while wrestling for a country they weren't born in, and to the best of my knowledge, never resided in before their senior level wrestling careers. Not everyone has a loophole like that to exploit.

 

If you've watched any of the other Olympic events, you'll have noticed how common switching countries is, sometimes multiple times (and often with no tie to the new country prior to switching). US and Russia are probably the most common offenders. Cubans defect often, but who can blame them? I don't really see the point in getting worked up over two wrestlers who would never see a team spot in the US.

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1 hour ago, Chet Hanson said:

Simple solution... score a takedown.

Yeah that’s a simple thing to do on the best wrestler in the world *eyeroll*

Kawai didn’t score a takedown either… or even a step out. Why is it a requirement for Helen but not Kawai?

But like I said she definitely controlled the center and held position better. I’d feel better about it if she won 1-0 since she clearly deserved to have Helen go on the clock first period. I don’t really think either of the other shot clocks were warranted.

Edited by Eagle26

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6 minutes ago, GoNotQuietly said:

Passive isn’t, and never will be, anything like stalling. It is about who controls superior wrestling position and technique, not who takes the most shots and head takes.


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Well while that may be true in practice that’s not what the UWW rule book states. It states:  Anytime the refereeing body agrees a wrestler is blocking, interlocking fingers, thwarting his opponent and/or generally avoiding wrestling: 

Sounds an awful lot like stalling to me and no mention of controlling wrestling position on the mat.

 

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7 minutes ago, GoNotQuietly said:

Passive isn’t, and never will be, anything like stalling. It is about who controls superior wrestling position and technique, not who takes the most shots and head takes.

Yep. With the current rules, someone is getting hit with passivity if there is no scoring or shots taken in the first period. You've got to be doing more than your opponent if you don't want it called against you.

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Well while that may be true in practice that’s not what the UWW rule book states. It states:  Anytime the refereeing body agrees a wrestler is blocking, interlocking fingers, thwarting his opponent and/or generally avoiding wrestling: 
Sounds an awful lot like stalling to me and no mention of controlling wrestling position on the mat.
 

Criteria to consider a wrestler as passive:
• Evading attacks without counterattacks
• Grapping opponent wrists without starting an attack
• Attacking without any direct contact with the opponent
• Regaining initial position right after beginning an attack
• Fake attacks (Simulation)
• Evading into and maintaining in the passivity zone
• Avoiding the Wrestling in the center of the mat
• Fixing his opponent in the passivity zone
• No hooking despite good position
• Defensive wrestling


What you quoted is the “negative wrestling” portion which is a bit more like a penalty within the passivity section. If they don’t get someone for being negative then the person who is the most passive gets hit. As you can see, faking shots and taking shots from space actually makes you more passive, which is extremely counterintuitive for us.


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1 minute ago, GoNotQuietly said:

Criteria to consider a wrestler as passive:
• Evading attacks without counterattacks
• Grapping opponent wrists without starting an attack
• Attacking without any direct contact with the opponent
• Regaining initial position right after beginning an attack
• Fake attacks (Simulation)
• Evading into and maintaining in the passivity zone
• Avoiding the Wrestling in the center of the mat
• Fixing his opponent in the passivity zone
• No hooking despite good position
• Defensive wrestling

Kawai did more than half of these most of the match…

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31 minutes ago, Drew87 said:

Kawai did more than half of these most of the match…

Don't be a homer. Neither did anything for the most part. Kawai controlled center and position and was the only one who had a legitimate scoring attempt. She was better. Helen didn't get a whiff and spent a ton of the match with her head buried defending an underhook on the edge. The match was called correctly.

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Yeah, I don’t see it at all. Japan had much more legitimate attacks and completely dominated wrestling positions and center. Actually, Helen got bailed out of the zone a couple times, which is extremely rare. And Japan did get put on the clock when she did become passive later in the match. Good reffing.


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7 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

Don't be a homer. Neither did anything for the most part. Kawai controlled center and position and was the only one who had a legitimate scoring attempt. She was better. Helen didn't get a whiff and spent a ton of the match with her head buried defending an underhook on the edge. The match was called correctly.

I’m not pretending she wasn’t, I do believe we were cheated out of seeing some great wrestling by overzealous passivity calls, mainly the second one making it 2-0.

And speaking of homers…nobody gets that second passivity call in a row except kawai.  I’ve watched every match of this olympics, it just doesn’t happen that way.  Yes Kawai was PUSHING, and straight pushing is clearly ruled out in the rules of freestyle wrestling, hence the referees’ ability to selectively not call stepouts.  You can be stronger/better and not wrestle, that’s what kawai did.  Was it the right result? yes probably. Was it delivered, refereed and managed properly? not in my opinion, no

Edited by Drew87

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2 minutes ago, Drew87 said:

I’m not pretending she wasn’t, I do believe we were cheated out of seeing some great wrestling by overzealous passivity calls, mainly the second one making it 2-0.

And speaking of homers…nobody gets that second passivity call in a row except kawai.  I’ve watched every match of this olympics, it just doesn’t happen that way.

happened quite a few times in greco...

the excuse mentality is strong with this one...

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3 minutes ago, Drew87 said:

I’m not pretending she wasn’t, I do believe we were cheated out of seeing some great wrestling by overzealous passivity calls, mainly the second one making it 2-0.

And speaking of homers…nobody gets that second passivity call in a row except kawai.  I’ve watched every match of this olympics, it just doesn’t happen that way.

That's not true. It happens in one sided cases like this. If Helen holds her ground and doesn't spend the first 4 minutes of the match on the edge with her head buried, she probably doesn't go on the clock again. When she started wrestling, they put Kawai on the clock.

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