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Discussion thread for 57kg (m), 57kg (w), and 86kg (m)

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3 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

That's not true. It happens in one sided cases like this. If Helen holds her ground and doesn't spend the first 4 minutes of the match on the edge with her head buried, she probably doesn't go on the clock again. When she started wrestling, they put Kawai on the clock.

I added a bit more right after I posted that, still my opinion that it was mismanaged and we missed out on some good wrestling as a result.

If it’s lopsided, you don’t hit kawai in the second to even the match. She did not do enough in my opinion to carry a two stepout lead.

Edited by Drew87

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5 minutes ago, Drew87 said:

I had been led to believe that discussing “the girls’ style” was beneath you

well, if you shtick is to be incorrect, you have nailed it yet again...

you sir are an oak...

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DT looks in top form. You'd never know he had a bad knee injury a year ago. Yazdani does not appear improved and still has the same conditioning issues. There is also a clear difference in their body language. DT has come for Gold and I don't think anyone believes he won't get it at this point. 

Does anyone know what weight DT walks around at/cuts from? Yazdani said he walks around at 89kg so he only cuts around 3kg (6.5lbs) to make weight, but DT looks massive at the weight so I can only assume he cuts a lot more than that. 

Edited by The Genius

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1 minute ago, The Genius said:

DT looks in top form. You'd never know he had a bad knee injury a year ago. Yazdani does not appear improved and still has the same conditioning issues. There is also a clear difference in their body language, DT has come for Gold, and I don't think anyone believes he won't get it at this point. 

Does anyone know what weight DT walks around out/cuts from? Yazdani said he walks around at 89kg so he only cuts around 3kg (6.5lbs) to make weight, but DT looks massive at the weight so I can only assume he cuts a lot more than that. 

I would guess a mean 205 to 210. Dude’s back is enormous.

Meant to ask this a while ago, what are weigh-in protocols across the days for those that go two days?

Edited by Drew87

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10 minutes ago, Drew87 said:

I added a bit more right after I posted that, still my opinion that it was mismanaged and we missed out on some good wrestling as a result.

If it’s lopsided, you don’t hit kawai in the second to even the match. She did not do enough in my opinion to carry a two stepout lead.

If I'm not mistaken, they're required to put someone on the clock again in the second if there's still no scoring.

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2 minutes ago, Drew87 said:

@uncle bernard I would also like to point out what a freaking miracle it is that helen is out there at all.  Olympic semis after a very dark five years is the stuff of legend.

No doubt. Her performance last night was fantastic. Hope she finishes with bronze and rides off into the sunset. It's well-deserved.

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2 hours ago, Paul158 said:

So how many olympic and world champs did you wrestle and beat them by taking them down?

Zero. The idea of going out to wrestle for takedowns and points is a strategy that is emphasized at almost all levels of the sport. It's much better than to leave things to chance and hope the refs give you the right calls. All this playing the victim to the refs BS that I am reading in this forum for this year's Olympics is pathetic. Yes, there's some questionable calls, but there are things the wrestlers can do to make them moot. It's not like this is the 90s and wrestlers are being forced to rewrestle matches they already won. Now that's a travesty. What happened to Helen is annoying, but at the end of the day wouldn't have mattered if she just went out there and got a takedown.

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6 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

If I'm not mistaken, they're required to put someone on the clock again in the second if there's still no scoring.

Ah, well if that’s the case, I am insufficiently learned, and yeah, 2-0 is the only option.

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7 hours ago, denger said:

Most people on this board were hoping for exceptions for individual athletes, given that the worst allegations were in Sochi 2014. 

There were certainly enough exceptions made. 

Russia's official stance is a denial. They won't admit to any wrong doing, and instead they're playing the victim. 

I'm generally a positive fan - I'm happy to see people do great things. This Games, however, I'm satisfied every time a Russian falls. 

For anyone who hasn't yet, please scroll the "Olympic Doping" Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_at_the_Olympic_Games. The sources are cited if you really want to know. It starts off interesting, then gets ugly, then London... Rio's list will likely grow, hopefully downward in proportion to London. 

Wrestling pales in comparison to Athletics and Weightlifting, but we're in there consistently enough. 

But now they have to be referred to as the Russian Olympic Committee. A truly brutal punishment handed down by the IOC. I'm not sure if Russia will ever recover

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how dare you sir

I wonder how far down the US 86kg pecking order we could go before he’d win.

Bo and Zahid would win. Downey, possible win, as much as it pains me to say it.

Myles Martin? Aaron Brooks?


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10 minutes ago, Le duke said:

How in the world is Deepak Punia a world silver medalist, or an Olympic semi finalist.


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86 kg.

And Punia's draw placement  skills. Its an underrated talent.

Deepak got the easy match out of the way in the semis. Now onto the bronze. 

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86 kg.
And Punia's draw placement  skills. Its an underrated talent.
Deepak got the easy match out of the way in the semis. Now onto the bronze. 

I admire your dedication, and Deepak’s dedication, to your respective crafts.


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So what time is the 86kg final?

Great to see Taylor wrestling so well and awesome it’ll be Taylor vs Yazdani in the final. Two of the best P4P wrestlers in the world going at it for all the marbles.

Edited by wamba

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10 minutes ago, Le duke said:


I wonder how far down the US 86kg pecking order we could go before he’d win.

Bo and Zahid would win. Downey, possible win, as much as it pains me to say it.

Myles Martin? Aaron Brooks?


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In all seriousness, he's criminally underrated. He's a cadet and junior world champion with  junior and senior world silver to go along with those. 

I'm pretty sure he's beaten Downey multiple times. I'd favor Bo and Zahid. Maybe Martin and Ringer too. But all those guys are legit top 10/15 guys at 86kg. Outside of Russia, USA, and Iran, it's not a deep weight internationally.

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6 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

In all seriousness, he's criminally underrated. He's a cadet and junior world champion with  junior and senior world silver to go along with those. 

I'm pretty sure he's beaten Downey multiple times. I'd favor Bo and Zahid. Maybe Martin and Ringer too. But all those guys are legit top 10/15 guys at 86kg. Outside of Russia, USA, and Iran, it's not a deep weight internationally.

If you recently moved to Puerto Rico, what do you have to do to be eligible for their team trials?

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40 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

No doubt. Her performance last night was fantastic. Hope she finishes with bronze and rides off into the sunset. It's well-deserved.

Only the first.  No requirement in the second.

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9 minutes ago, boconnell said:

When does Gilman wrestle again?  When does 74 and 125 start?  When does Taylor wrestle his final?  I'm sure I could find answers somewhere but I assume one of you knows everything for me.

57kg repechage kicks off the 10pm EDT evening session tonight (Thurs AM Japan time). 74/125 immediately after repechage.

You can see schedule and brackets here. Change weights from the purple bar at the top.

https://results.nbcolympics.com/wrestling/mens-freestyle-57kg-125-lbs/medal-round/318032004

Edited by Red95

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Do all wrestlers need to make weight both days?  What is the weigh in before the bronze and gold matches.  If Uguev has to make wt again and wrestle right away Kumar wins that match.  Uguev looks exhausted every match and Kumar is full energy.

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More thorough explanation of my thoughts on Maroulis semi… Kawai definitely controlled the center and controlled the ties almost the entire first period. Helen certainly deserved to go on the clock. I think the second one was called a little early (John Smith agrees). There’s no denying it’s a subjective call (that early in the second period) and many other refs wouldn’t have made it. However, he later called Kawai too when it wasn’t 100% necessary so at least he is consistent. He also blew the whistle a couple of times when Helen was close to stepping out which I wouldn’t have been happy about if I was Japan. So looking at only the limited action that occurred, Kawai should have won the match (maybe just 1-0, though). I just don’t think it’s fair to say Helen NEEDS to score a takedown but Kawai doesn’t. Maybe she needs to control center better, but if Kawai is allowed to win that way it should be ok for her too. Personally, I just don’t like any time anyone wins like that. I understand you will never totally stop that though and passivity and shot clock is still waaaaay better than the subjectivity of folkstyle stalling!

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5 hours ago, Paul158 said:

Her opponent did not score a takedown to win..So your telling Helen she has to beat the referee and the opponent to win the match. Wow. So your telling Helen no matter what to win you have score a takedown to win and your opponent can block and hold position to win with 2 shot clock points.

You don't have to score a takedown to win as long as you control position and the edge all match...like Kawai did. If Helen wanted to win without a takedown, she needed to hold her ground. She got outwrestled in a very tight match by an Olympic Champion.

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