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somedude202

Penn State's secret sauce

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None of us know the exact reason Penn State has been so dominant for years, but it is safe to assume that having almost no turnover was a big part of it. The staff has remained intact through the entire time, only once even being rumored to be considering another job (Casey Cunningham at Michigan). However this offseason something changed and finally some Cael alumni are joining the college coaching ranks. I'm not saying this is the end of the Penn State dynasty, but I believe this is the beginning of a gradual decline in PSU's dominance relative to the field. Ruth, Joseph, and Hall all joining well funded programs and if they can convert blue chip recruits into bonus point monsters at even half the rate that Penn State did it will level the playing field dramatically.

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I don’t see most of those guys making much of an impact. being a super athlete doesn’t guarantee coaching success. 

I’ll give Vincenzo the impact award out of those 3. 
 

what would be more interesting to me is if Dave T and some guys like that make a move to elsewhere.. Varner etc. how long does Varner want to be the Volunteer coach. Maybe forever I don’t know..

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23 minutes ago, somedude202 said:

None of us know the exact reason Penn State has been so dominant for years, but it is safe to assume that having almost no turnover was a big part of it. The staff has remained intact through the entire time, only once even being rumored to be considering another job (Casey Cunningham at Michigan). However this offseason something changed and finally some Cael alumni are joining the college coaching ranks. I'm not saying this is the end of the Penn State dynasty, but I believe this is the beginning of a gradual decline in PSU's dominance relative to the field. Ruth, Joseph, and Hall all joining well funded programs and if they can convert blue chip recruits into bonus point monsters at even half the rate that Penn State did it will level the playing field dramatically.

MSU had zero turnover for years with the opposite result.


I think the reality is that Ruth, Joseph, and Hall weren’t going to be marquee guys for NLWC, so they brought  in better wrestlers.

 

The secret sauce is not secret. It’s Kale. 

Edited by Billyhoyle

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2 hours ago, somedude202 said:

None of us know the exact reason Penn State has been so dominant for years, but it is safe to assume that having almost no turnover was a big part of it. The staff has remained intact through the entire time, only once even being rumored to be considering another job (Casey Cunningham at Michigan). However this offseason something changed and finally some Cael alumni are joining the college coaching ranks. I'm not saying this is the end of the Penn State dynasty, but I believe this is the beginning of a gradual decline in PSU's dominance relative to the field. Ruth, Joseph, and Hall all joining well funded programs and if they can convert blue chip recruits into bonus point monsters at even half the rate that Penn State did it will level the playing field dramatically.

Having no team in the fight I can confidently say that it has been awhile since they won a national title... Iowa has basically won the last two.  But I do agree that the time is coming soon for the band to break up. Is Cael John Lennon or Paul McCartney? 

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2 hours ago, Idaho said:

Having no team in the fight I can confidently say that it has been awhile since they won a national title... Iowa has basically won the last two.  But I do agree that the time is coming soon for the band to break up. Is Cael John Lennon or Paul McCartney? 

You kinda just showed exactly what they’re talking about didnt ya?  When exactly one championship since their last is ‘has been awhile’

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33 minutes ago, Lurker said:

You kinda just showed exactly what they’re talking about didnt ya?  When exactly one championship since their last is ‘has been awhile’

It's been two years at last count... Which means that Penn State has not been "dominant for years" as the initial sentence of the OP states. Please explain how Penn State has been "dominant for years" when they did not win last year and did not end the year #1 the year before. 

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The year before there was no championships, it has been exactly one championships since the end of their championship winning streak, a championships in which they had a ‘dominant’ final, going 4-4 and 2-2 against Iowa. 
 

You’re really making yourself look silly trying to make such an argument. Go have fun. 

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23 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

Iowa has only one title, not two, since PSU started their run. 2020 had no winner. 

Cael is the not so secret sauce at Penn State.

I tend to agree with you, but does this insane run of success continue if Cody, Cunningham, and Varner leave to run their own programs?

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Obviously Cael is the biggest reason behind their success, but we haven't been able to see if any of his pupils are able to take the lessons they've learned from him and apply them to a new team.

What if the genius of Cael was some combination of sports psychology and practices with more play wrestling and less drilling. I could see that being adopted by other teams and PSU losing their competitive edge.

Conversely, if the secret sauce is Cael being the best identifier of talent in the country, or a unique motivator of high level athletes, then these moves won't mean much and PSU will remain among the top 2 or 3 teams in the nation.

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17 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

you can mess around w/ terminology (best/dominant/etc)

but these are PSU's Team Placement

 

2021 - 2
2019 - 1
2018 - 1
2017 - 1
2017 - 1
2016 - 6
2015 - 1
2014 - 1
2013 - 1
2012 - 1

I see a trend, PSU better be looking for a new head coach before the 2026 season.  

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The way some people want to treat the 2020 season, where PSU was down is strange.  It's not enough to be as great as they were for the prior decade outside of one punt year, but they have to basically pretend like nobody wrestled in 2020.  The 2020 title was more of a lock than the 2021 ended up being.  It didn't happen, so you can't "give" the title to Iowa, but to deny that 2020 also counts as a down year for Penn State and pretend like it's been only 1 year since they've been a championship team is weird.

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35 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

The way some people want to treat the 2020 season, where PSU was down is strange.  It's not enough to be as great as they were for the prior decade outside of one punt year, but they have to basically pretend like nobody wrestled in 2020.  The 2020 title was more of a lock than the 2021 ended up being.  It didn't happen, so you can't "give" the title to Iowa, but to deny that 2020 also counts as a down year for Penn State and pretend like it's been only 1 year since they've been a championship team is weird.

I think it is an anticipatory defense mechanism. Say Iowa wins in 2022, then PSU fans will want to guard against claims that it was three in a row (two actual and one hypothetical) based on the logic that the third year doesn't happen if the first is not wiped out (due to lineup turnover). But if PSU wins in 2022 it is clear Iowa would have been two in a row. So you get this weird situation with so many returning seniors in the Iowa lineup that you have to basically ignore what was highly likely to happen.

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On 8/7/2021 at 1:33 PM, Billyhoyle said:

MSU had zero turnover for years with the opposite result.


I think the reality is that Ruth, Joseph, and Hall weren’t going to be marquee guys for NLWC, so they brought  in better wrestlers.

 

The secret sauce is not secret. It’s Kale. 

Huh?  Ruth made a world team right out of college.

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Dan Gable dominated until Dan Gable retired.  None of his disciples came close to matching him.

Cael Sanderson became the next Dan Gable.  None of his disciples will come close to matching him.

On a different level, you can say the same with Rob Koll at Cornell and Tom Ryan at Ohio State.  Those who follow will not come close to matching them.

 

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2 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I think it is an anticipatory defense mechanism. Say Iowa wins in 2022, then PSU fans will want to guard against claims that it was three in a row (two actual and one hypothetical) based on the logic that the third year doesn't happen if the first is not wiped out (due to lineup turnover). But if PSU wins in 2022 it is clear Iowa would have been two in a row. So you get this weird situation with so many returning seniors in the Iowa lineup that you have to basically ignore what was highly likely to happen.

Prob good to remember that rules could've been applied such that Iowa lost all the DeSanto points in which case PSU wins the team title.  Iowa should be happy they actually won 2021 and not be counting extra chickens.  

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2 hours ago, ionel said:

Prob good to remember that rules could've been applied such that Iowa lost all the DeSanto points in which case PSU wins the team title.  Iowa should be happy they actually won 2021 and not be counting extra chickens.  

There is zero evidence that Desanto was ever in danger of being sanctioned in that way.

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10 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I think it is an anticipatory defense mechanism. Say Iowa wins in 2022, then PSU fans will want to guard against claims that it was three in a row (two actual and one hypothetical) based on the logic that the third year doesn't happen if the first is not wiped out (due to lineup turnover). But if PSU wins in 2022 it is clear Iowa would have been two in a row. So you get this weird situation with so many returning seniors in the Iowa lineup that you have to basically ignore what was highly likely to happen.

Iowa will get their second in 2022. you can't count both 2020 and 2022 b/c if 2020 happened the guys (lee/ads/eierman/bull/kem) wouldn't have gotten an extra year. 

in short - it's all gonna even itself out. 

Edited by Husker_Du

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11 hours ago, VakAttack said:

The way some people want to treat the 2020 season, where PSU was down is strange.  It's not enough to be as great as they were for the prior decade outside of one punt year, but they have to basically pretend like nobody wrestled in 2020.  The 2020 title was more of a lock than the 2021 ended up being.  It didn't happen, so you can't "give" the title to Iowa, but to deny that 2020 also counts as a down year for Penn State and pretend like it's been only 1 year since they've been a championship team is weird.

I am not even a PSU fan, but this is about has great attempt at spin and rationalization to fan boy all over your favorite team...it is quite funny

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