Penn State's secret sauce

[Husker_Du 838]

On 8/7/2021 at 1:09 PM, somedude202 said:

None of us know the exact reason Penn State has been so dominant for years.

let me solve this mystery for you.

the coaching staff. 

[VakAttack 3,994]

I am not even a PSU fan, but this is about has great attempt at spin and rationalization to fan boy all over your favorite team...it is quite funny

In what way am I fanboying Iowa in that post?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[jammen 336]

Some would say it is recruiting:

During Cael's tenure at Penn State he has had the benefit of the following top overall recruits on his roster.  Here is a partial list: 1,1,1,2,3,3,3,3,4,5,5,5,6,7,7,8,9,10,12,12     http://board.themat.com/index.php?/topic/16888-best-coach/page/4/&tab=comments#comment-341628

-------------------------------------------------

Current rosters with FLO's top 25 big board recruits:  https://tinyurl.com/yfd3tx3w

Penn State-...............1,2,3,4,5,6,7,9,11,12,20,20,22

OH St-.......................1,4,4,5,9,10,10,15,16,22,24

Okie St.......................1,6,7,10,15,24,24,25

Iowa..........................2,3,7,9,13,16,17,21

-------------------------------------------------------

If Penn State doesn't win the NCAA's this year will it be the all-time biggest choke job or worst coaching ever?

Look at this roster composed of overall national hs recruiting rankings per PSU site:

1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 5.

http://board.themat.com/index.php?/topic/5464-biggest-choke-job/

 

 

[dman115 513]

2 hours ago, VakAttack said:

In what way am I fanboying Iowa in that post?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 

I don't Vak...because you rationalize away the Covid year as bad for PSU, but someone would have been great for Iowa?  Doesn't matter...as an outsider it read very much like you fanboy'ing all over Iowa...which is fine...they are your team...just seemed funny to me. 

Iowa will be tough to beat next year but I think it will be a lot closer with PSU, and if PSU wrestles on the final day at the NCAA's like they did this last year they could probably come away with the title...should be fun to watch.

[VakAttack 3,994]

37 minutes ago, dman115 said:

I don't Vak...because you rationalize away the Covid year as bad for PSU, but someone would have been great for Iowa?  Doesn't matter...as an outsider it read very much like you fanboy'ing all over Iowa...which is fine...they are your team...just seemed funny to me. 

Iowa will be tough to beat next year but I think it will be a lot closer with PSU, and if PSU wrestles on the final day at the NCAA's like they did this last year they could probably come away with the title...should be fun to watch.

I didn't rationalize anything.  Iowa was a huge favorite that year and PSU was more down than they were last year.  It's a statement of fact.  PSU was like 4th at B1Gs.  PSU had more horses the next year.  I also, clearly, said that you can't give Iowa the title that year because the tournament didn't happen, but that it was disingenuous to pretend that PSU was only "down" (and this is a relative term for them) for one season when it was really two.

[jackwebster 292]

Hordes of hungry workout partners + recruits/resident athletes/coaches with diverse tactics and strategies + play wrestling +irrational faith + placebo effect = penn state sauce

[unbiased 516]

F%N

[VakAttack 3,994]

As to the "secret sauce", it's coaching and (as a function of coaching) recruiting.  I said after the Taylor-Ruth years "they won't be able to get that kind of luck in terms of simultaneous bonus monsters again!"  And I was right.  Instead they had three in Zain-Nolf-Nickal.  Will they be able to do it again or was that just a crazy amount of luck to go along with their obviously tremendous coaching?  We'll see.  I don't see any of the guys that wrestled last year as likely bonus monsters, although it's possible with Brooks and Kerkvleit.  Maybe Van Ness will be one of those guys?

[Husker_Du 838]

54 minutes ago, jammen said:

Some would say it is recruiting:

During Cael's tenure at Penn State he has had the benefit of the following top overall recruits on his roster.  Here is a partial list: 1,1,1,2,3,3,3,3,4,5,5,5,6,7,7,8,9,10,12,12     http://board.themat.com/index.php?/topic/16888-best-coach/page/4/&tab=comments#comment-341628

-------------------------------------------------

Current rosters with FLO's top 25 big board recruits:  https://tinyurl.com/yfd3tx3w

Penn State-...............1,2,3,4,5,6,7,9,11,12,20,20,22

OH St-.......................1,4,4,5,9,10,10,15,16,22,24

Okie St.......................1,6,7,10,15,24,24,25

Iowa..........................2,3,7,9,13,16,17,21

-------------------------------------------------------

If Penn State doesn't win the NCAA's this year will it be the all-time biggest choke job or worst coaching ever?

Look at this roster composed of overall national hs recruiting rankings per PSU site:

1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 5.

http://board.themat.com/index.php?/topic/5464-biggest-choke-job/

 

 

the worst and lamest argument and beaten like a dead horse. 

i really truly can't fathom how people who religiously watch this sport fail to see that cael coaches them up and rely on the recruiting angle. (which is part of being a hc, incidently)

[Husker_Du 838]

No one on god's green earth looked at Carter Starocci in HS and said '"NCAA Champ as a freshman"

i had him high on the big board but i doubt many people thought the same or regarded him as that promising. 

Aaron Brooks had one loss as a true frosh and won a title in an undefeated second season. 

i mean, you guys try real hard to be blind. 

[unbiased 516]

Just now, Husker_Du said:

No one on god's green earth looked at Carter Starocci in HS and said '"NCAA Champ as a freshman"

i had him high on the big board but i doubt many people thought the same or regarded him as that promising. 

Aaron Brooks had one loss as a true frosh and won a title in an undefeated second season. 

i mean, you guys try real hard to be blind. 

Cael - and that is why he is the best.

[smsu150 24]

PSU is located in a great wrestling state, has great facilities, and has great support from their administration.  Those factors, along with a great coaching staff, have allowed PSU to be a perennial  national championship contender.  Iowa has similar qualities, which is why they too have a great program. 

 

[Wrestleknownothing 1,459]

7 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

the worst and lamest argument and beaten like a dead horse. 

i really truly can't fathom how people who religiously watch this sport fail to see that cael coaches them up and rely on the recruiting angle. (which is part of being a hc, incidently)

@jammen doesn't believe it, he just WANTS to believe it. How else does he explain uncomfortable reality to himself?

[Scorenomore 94]

I think the success is fairly simple.  The best wrestler (Cael) recruits athletes that fit his body type. Long and strong!  Cael is able to transfer his offense that has grown and evolved to body types that match him. 
 

I can’t think of one short and thick wrestler that has flourished in his system. 

[headshuck 2,588]

I think the success is fairly simple.  The best wrestler (Cael) recruits athletes that fit his body type. Long and strong!  Cael is able to transfer his offense that has grown and evolved to body types that match him. 
 
I can’t think of one short and thick wrestler that has flourished in his system. 

Frank Molinaro, you know, the recent Olympian?

[AHamilton 1,026]

21 minutes ago, Scorenomore said:

I think the success is fairly simple.  The best wrestler (Cael) recruits athletes that fit his body type. Long and strong!  Cael is able to transfer his offense that has grown and evolved to body types that match him. 
 

I can’t think of one short and thick wrestler that has flourished in his system. 

Mark Hall? Not "short" but a bit on the "denser" side.

Edited August 11, 2021 by AHamilton

[wrestlingnerd 3,000]

22 minutes ago, Scorenomore said:

I can’t think of one short and thick wrestler that has flourished in his system. 

Matt Brown was shorter than most of his opponents. Not as short as Molinaro but definitely not long.

[Scorenomore 94]

The team points came from long builds.  Taylor, Zain, Ruth, Nickal, Caspar, Sugar

New members, Lee, RBY, Kerk, Brooks

Major contributors all have long arms and can assimilate Cael’s style. 

[gimpeltf 2,045]

48 minutes ago, headshuck said:

Frank Molinaro, you know, the recent Olympian?

Cael didn't recruit Frank. Scorenomore was talking about recruiting.

[headshuck 2,588]

Cael didn't recruit Frank. Scorenomore was talking about recruiting.

Then he made the statement that he couldn’t think of one short and thick wrestler that flourished under Cael. So he expanded his position.

 

Even Retherford might not fit the Cael sizing.

[Scorenomore 94]

20 hours ago, headshuck said:

Then he made the statement that he couldn’t think of one short and thick wrestler that flourished under Cael. So he expanded his position.

 

Even Retherford might not fit the Cael sizing.

Thanks, I thought about Zain, but his hands almost hang down to his knees, so even though not tall, definitely long limbed in the upper body. 

[cpapbear 3]

Morgan Mcintosh sure is long and lanky.

[Boompa 203]

On 8/10/2021 at 9:37 AM, Husker_Du said:

let me solve this mystery for you.

the coaching staff. 

I hate agreeing here but have to agree.  While Willie was in HS, we all talked about how PSU could be the powerhouse it once was, it just takes the right staff.

Sunderland's results are similar to Pop's at NC State but Pop is considered some kind of super coach.  Sunderland was a good coach, he just wasn't one of the greats.

When Sunderland got the job, everyone was saying, NO!  PSU is not Iowa.  The wrestling throughout the entire east is better and there is a lot more money here.

PSU is the marquee state school here with no competitor.  This isn't Michigan, NC, Iowa, Virginia or Oklahoma.  PSU is the end all, be all to a significant percentage of the population.  Cael energized that population.  I know several former college wrestlers who donate nothing to their alma mater and never attend home matches but they give to PSU and are at everyone of their home matches (and some away).

I'm no PSU fan but I knew the moment Cael got the job, things were going to change but I also believe Cael was not the only option because I'm not a sycophant.

PA is not the midwest and too many people believe wrestling flows through the midwest...but it doesn't.  It's the mid-atlantic region.  Talent and money.

There is no special sauce.  Geographics, the best wrestling territory in the nation, money and a very good staff.

[Billyhoyle 2,473]

26 minutes ago, Boompa said:

I hate agreeing here but have to agree.  While Willie was in HS, we all talked about how PSU could be the powerhouse it once was, it just takes the right staff.

Sunderland's results are similar to Pop's at NC State but Pop is considered some kind of super coach.  Sunderland was a good coach, he just wasn't one of the greats.

When Sunderland got the job, everyone was saying, NO!  PSU is not Iowa.  The wrestling throughout the entire east is better and there is a lot more money here.

PSU is the marquee state school here with no competitor.  This isn't Michigan, NC, Iowa, Virginia or Oklahoma.  PSU is the end all, be all to a significant percentage of the population.  Cael energized that population.  I know several former college wrestlers who donate nothing to their alma mater and never attend home matches but they give to PSU and are at everyone of their home matches (and some away).

I'm no PSU fan but I knew the moment Cael got the job, things were going to change but I also believe Cael was not the only option because I'm not a sycophant.

PA is not the midwest and too many people believe wrestling flows through the midwest...but it doesn't.  It's the mid-atlantic region.  Talent and money.

There is no special sauce.  Geographics, the best wrestling territory in the nation, money and a very good staff.

Geography is important, but PSU develops guys to have dynamic attacking styles.  Iowa develops guys to push and tire out the opponent.  Ohio State develops guys to apply freestyle par terre defense technique to folkstyle.  

Just looking at how Nolf, Taylor, and Nick Lee wrestle makes it obvious what PSU's style does.  14 months with Gilman and he now looks like a completely different wrestler.   

Edited August 12, 2021 by Billyhoyle

[gimpeltf 2,045]

1 minute ago, Billyhoyle said:

Geography is important, but PSU develops guys to have dynamic attacking styles.  Iowa develops guys to push and tire out the opponent.  Ohio State develops guys to apply freestyle par terre defense technique to folkstyle.  

Just looking at how Nolf, Taylor, and Nick Lee wrestle makes it obvious what PSU's style does.  14 months with Gilman and he now looks like a completely different wrestler.   

Do they develop them or find them? Probably a bit of both but I doubt Nolf, Taylor and N Lee were stallers before they came.