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41 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

Do they develop them or find them? Probably a bit of both but I doubt Nolf, Taylor and N Lee were stallers before they came.

And 2 of them weren’t from Pennsylvania.

and if I dare say, Indiana and Ohio are considered Midwest.

Edited by WresFan89

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3 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

Not sure what this has to do with whether they develop or find.

Sorry, didn’t mean to quote you.  Was meant more towards the one saying it’s about Pennsylvania/ Mid-Atlantic talent.  

Edited by WresFan89

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2 hours ago, gimpeltf said:

Do they develop them or find them? Probably a bit of both but I doubt Nolf, Taylor and N Lee were stallers before they came.

Nolf, Taylor, and Nick Lee were incredible talents in HS.  But their styles changed noticeably after a year in the PSU room. I remember watching Taylor during his RS freshman year and seeing a different level of neutral attacks compared to his true freshman/HS approach. All three of them wrestle with a very similar style, and it's  not a coincidence.   We saw Gilman seemingly transform over the past 14 months.  It's possible that may be energy pathways, but most likely PSU is simply the best at developing an attacking style. And obviously they need talented athletes-that's why they are quick to replace their athletes who underperform. But it's clear that development of neutral technique there is better than anywhere else in the country.

Edited by Billyhoyle

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1 hour ago, Billyhoyle said:

Nolf, Taylor, and Nick Lee were incredible talents in HS.  But their styles changed noticeably after a year in the PSU room. I remember watching Taylor during his RS freshman year and seeing a different level of neutral attacks compared to his true freshman/HS approach. All three of them wrestle with a very similar style, and it's  not a coincidence.   We saw Gilman seemingly transform over the past 14 months.  It's possible that may be energy pathways, but most likely PSU is simply the best at developing an attacking style. And obviously they need talented athletes-that's why they are quick to replace their athletes who underperform. But it's clear that development of neutral technique there is better than anywhere else in the country.

Very few wrestlers don't develop in a college room the first year. But Cael attracts the kinds of wrestlers that would like to be in that environment. Gable attracted the kind that would like to be in his environment. Very few top level wide open type wrestlers would want to go to a push-push style program, and vice versa. You can always point out exceptions.

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Score has a point - even when predicting guys to certain schools i often consider Cael's preference for a certain build.

however, Score, you're wrong that they are the only kids that flourish. idk that you can put zain in that category. roman and starocci aren't exactly 'long'. nico was no mcdonogh. matt brown doesn't fit. morgan doesn't fit. nick lee isn't built any differently than anyone else at the weight and frankly doesn't wrestle the same ruth/taylor/nolf/cael style. cenzo and mark aren't built any differently. hell Mark and Nico are both pigeon toed. 

jury is out on Howard, Bartlett and Van Ness but none are long and lanky. 

 

when i think of the quintessential Cael preference i think of DT, Nolf, Quentin, Ed (perhaps Kerkvliet).

Edited by Husker_Du

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11 hours ago, Scorenomore said:

How many points did he score at nationals compared to the long and lanky?  Definitely contributed but not like the others. 

you can't point to Shakur as evidence and then discount Macintosh, who scored a ton more career pts. 

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13 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

Nolf, Taylor, and Nick Lee were incredible talents in HS.  But their styles changed noticeably after a year in the PSU room. I remember watching Taylor during his RS freshman year and seeing a different level of neutral attacks compared to his true freshman/HS approach. All three of them wrestle with a very similar style, and it's  not a coincidence.   We saw Gilman seemingly transform over the past 14 months.  It's possible that may be energy pathways, but most likely PSU is simply the best at developing an attacking style. And obviously they need talented athletes-that's why they are quick to replace their athletes who underperform. But it's clear that development of neutral technique there is better than anywhere else in the country.

How exactly did Gilman's actual wrestling "transform"?  I would concede that a mental reset helped, but I just didn't see any of his best wrestling being different than what it was before.  What am I missing specifically in his wrestling?

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his finishes we cleaner. and when stopped on shots, his finished better (more often).

at least that's what i saw. thomas has never really had a problem getting in on legs, but being able to finish at higher percentage is a game changer for him.

that's my .02 (and that's in no way shape or form a knock on T&T. )

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15 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

his finishes we cleaner. and when stopped on shots, his finished better (more often).

at least that's what i saw. thomas has never really had a problem getting in on legs, but being able to finish at higher percentage is a game changer for him.

that's my .02 (and that's in no way shape or form a knock on T&T. )

That may be the case, but I really didn't see some newfound technique to his finishes. He scored exactly 1 takedown against Uguev and, quite frankly, his 2 opponents on the backside looked like they mailed in their performances and were seriously outmatched physically.  Prior to that, I hadn't really noticed a string of performances to show a difference in finishing takedowns.

I am a huge fan of Thomas.  I took quite some heat for defending him on HR.  I was very happy for him when he medaled and was crushed when Uguev snuck by him.  He wrestled very well at the Olympics, but I just didn't see something that stood out to me as transcendent and I was looking VERY hard! 

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his finishes were notably better/different. and i wouldn't vehemently disagree that uzb mailed it in. (thomas was just relentless and better)

though you're right, it was just one event so maybe something to monitor going forward. 

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12 hours ago, Scorenomore said:

How many points did he score at nationals compared to the long and lanky?  Definitely contributed but not like the others. 

Irrelevant. He was a wrestler recruited by Cael, which counters the assertion that his success stems from recruiting "long and strong" athletes. 

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38 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

his finishes were notably better/different. and i wouldn't vehemently disagree that uzb mailed it in. (thomas was just relentless and better)

though you're right, it was just one event so maybe something to monitor going forward. 

No real arguments from me.  It is simply such a small sample size that it makes it really hard to define and single out marked improvement.  One thing I will say, is he seemed to be "right" mentally.  He had a great gameplan against Uguev and there was zero letdown after, as he simply decimated Abs and Atri.

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The mental side that Cael and his crew impart is twice as important as the physical side. Gilman was ready to be done. Now he’s in love with wrestling again.  If you don’t love it who cares how good your technique is because you probably won’t even use it. 

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4 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

Score has a point - even when predicting guys to certain schools i often consider Cael's preference for a certain build.

however, Score, you're wrong that they are the only kids that flourish. idk that you can put zain in that category. roman and starocci aren't exactly 'long'. nico was no mcdonogh. matt brown doesn't fit. morgan doesn't fit. nick lee isn't built any differently than anyone else at the weight and frankly doesn't wrestle the same ruth/taylor/nolf/cael style. cenzo and mark aren't built any differently. hell Mark and Nico are both pigeon toed. 

jury is out on Howard, Bartlett and Van Ness but none are long and lanky. 

 

when i think of the quintessential Cael preference i think of DT, Nolf, Quentin, Ed (perhaps Kerkvliet).

Good points no doubt.  I disagree about Lee and Zane as they have very long arms.  That being said, if I’m right, then based on the newer recruits of Howard, Van Ness, Bartlett and Facundo, then it’s the end of an era!

I find it really hard to go against Cael and call the dynasty over, but I do think there is truth to the build and predict a tighter Race going forward!

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On 8/12/2021 at 9:50 PM, Billyhoyle said:

Nolf, Taylor, and Nick Lee were incredible talents in HS.  But their styles changed noticeably after a year in the PSU room. I remember watching Taylor during his RS freshman year and seeing a different level of neutral attacks compared to his true freshman/HS approach. All three of them wrestle with a very similar style, and it's  not a coincidence.   We saw Gilman seemingly transform over the past 14 months.  It's possible that may be energy pathways, but most likely PSU is simply the best at developing an attacking style. And obviously they need talented athletes-that's why they are quick to replace their athletes who underperform. But it's clear that development of neutral technique there is better than anywhere else in the country.

Gilman looked great at the Olympics, which is the goal.  However, for much of the last 14 months, there was talk of regression.  Maybe the injury was the best thing that happened to him?

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