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The upside case for Snyder

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4 hours ago, cjc007 said:

Sadulaev wrestled with a leg injury and still dominated everyone. That's incredible.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk
 

Yeah but how ACL tears did he have?

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8 minutes ago, de4856 said:

Well was Saduleav actually injured or was he just saying that to deflect criticism of him not shooting. I say this because I didn’t see Sads limping or favoring his leg while walking around or in his matches. But injured or not, Kyle is just going to have to get better. 

When have the Russians ever felt a need to defend themselves against American criticism of their wrestling style?

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1 hour ago, de4856 said:

Well was Saduleav actually injured or was he just saying that to deflect criticism of him not shooting. I say this because I didn’t see Sads limping or favoring his leg while walking around or in his matches. But injured or not, Kyle is just going to have to get better. 

I heard through my Russian sources that Sad was absolutely distraught at how close Snyder came so he was asking around what the best excuse would be to explain his lack of leg attacks and the Facebook poll he created overwhelmingly went with 'leg injury' and so that is the story he told. 

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Too many American/folkstyle posters who basically don't want to give Sad credit for those exposures because they aren't "real" points.  We need to get over that,  too many US fans consider the person with the most leg shots and TDs as the better wrestler.  Nope nope nope

Plus he was basically gifted a trap arm on his TD of a tired Sad and was like a fish out of water and didn't even know what to do.  Zero progression in his top game since 2017, zero. 

Synder did some good things, but he was handled in this match.  His ability to gas out Sad and keep it close is really the only way he looks like he can win.  Last two matches he was turned twice on his shots and pinned on another one.  A non-tired Sad is virtually impossible to score on and nothing KS showed in the last two matches gives me hope he will. 

I'll be rooting for KS every time but this match isn't as close as some people are painting it.  Hope I'm wrong, I often am...

 

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it really was not a close match...

and snyder looked great... wrestled extremely well...

sadualeuv is just better in every position...

now...

if snyder had a spent a lifetime perfecting shots that require a clean finish instead of just learning how to dive in on a leg and hoping something good eventually happens like the stall fest rewards, perhaps he develops a different skill set...

he damn sure would understand that exposure is a consequence of poor shots and work on set ups that allow clean finishes...

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1 hour ago, Gantry said:

Too many American/folkstyle posters who basically don't want to give Sad credit for those exposures because they aren't "real" points.  We need to get over that,  too many US fans consider the person with the most leg shots and TDs as the better wrestler.  Nope nope nope

Plus he was basically gifted a trap arm on his TD of a tired Sad and was like a fish out of water and didn't even know what to do.  Zero progression in his top game since 2017, zero. 

Synder did some good things, but he was handled in this match.  His ability to gas out Sad and keep it close is really the only way he looks like he can win.  Last two matches he was turned twice on his shots and pinned on another one.  A non-tired Sad is virtually impossible to score on and nothing KS showed in the last two matches gives me hope he will. 

I'll be rooting for KS every time but this match isn't as close as some people are painting it.  Hope I'm wrong, I often am...

 

I could not agree more, and I mirror this thought process as well. I read a ton of people complaining about Snyder only losing to "bull**** exposure" and saying "this is why I hate freestyle". This is the style chosen for the rest of the world and the Olympic games, and Kyle Snyder had every opportunity to learn how to score this way as well. he chose to basically not alter his game plan and style of wrestling since he started wrestling the Senior level at 18 years old. One cannot expect that grinding style to work forever, he is going to have to make some adjustments. I too could not believe he could not even remotely come close to capitalizing on that trap arm he fell a** backwards into. He could have won the match right there if he put any effort into turning someone. This match was not as close as people want to believe, and as slow as Sad was moving all tournament, I believe that he is injured for real, and that this match is only going to get worse for KS and American fans, when Sad gets healthy again.

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3 minutes ago, snapspinscore said:

I could not agree more, and I mirror this thought process as well. I read a ton of people complaining about Snyder only losing to "bull**** exposure" and saying "this is why I hate freestyle". This is the style chosen for the rest of the world and the Olympic games, and Kyle Snyder had every opportunity to learn how to score this way as well. he chose to basically not alter his game plan and style of wrestling since he started wrestling the Senior level at 18 years old. One cannot expect that grinding style to work forever, he is going to have to make some adjustments. I too could not believe he could not even remotely come close to capitalizing on that trap arm he fell a** backwards into. He could have won the match right there if he put any effort into turning someone. This match was not as close as people want to believe, and as slow as Sad was moving all tournament, I believe that he is injured for real, and that this match is only going to get worse for KS and American fans, when Sad gets healthy again.

And he wrestled more freestyle from 12th grade on than folkstyle. (I know you at least implied that)

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Just now, gimpeltf said:

And he wrestled more freestyle from 12th grade on than folkstyle. (I know you at least implied that)

still has not developed even basic par terre...

still diving in on a leg like he isn't going to have to pay for that by giving up exposure...

still looked better (at least physically) than he ever has...

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I think Kyle looks more or less the same.  Maybe there've been some small improvements in his hand fight, and I do think he looks a tad leaner, but otherwise his style is the same--which is fine.  He's wrestling with another top 10 p4p wrestler on a daily basis, which certainly helps.  But to expect someone who's been immensely successful for such a long time, even at such a young age, to completely change his approach in under 2 years is ridiculous.  

The fact of the matter is that he's only ever been better than Sadulaev on 1 day.  I think we're all well aware of the circumstances of that matchup, and don't need to rehash them here.  

Sadulaev wrestling with a bum leg and still winning with relative ease is just another testament to how special he is. The guys that have had some moderate success against him (usually other Russians) have looked to score big points in flurries.  Unfortunately, that's not Snyder's strength... he's a fish out of water in that department.

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3 hours ago, Gantry said:

Too many American/folkstyle posters who basically don't want to give Sad credit for those exposures because they aren't "real" points.  We need to get over that,  too many US fans consider the person with the most leg shots and TDs as the better wrestler.  Nope nope nope

Plus he was basically gifted a trap arm on his TD of a tired Sad and was like a fish out of water and didn't even know what to do.  Zero progression in his top game since 2017, zero. 

Synder did some good things, but he was handled in this match.  His ability to gas out Sad and keep it close is really the only way he looks like he can win.  Last two matches he was turned twice on his shots and pinned on another one.  A non-tired Sad is virtually impossible to score on and nothing KS showed in the last two matches gives me hope he will. 

I'll be rooting for KS every time but this match isn't as close as some people are painting it.  Hope I'm wrong, I often am...

 

Agree with this completely.  Had a weird mixed reaction after the match that KS looked better than he had since ‘19, Sad didn’t look near as good as he had in 19, yet the match showed a pretty significant gap between the two. 
 

We’ve seen this movie before in Russia. I just don’t know that we’ve seen it with this level combo of movement, technique, and horse power. I just don’t see anyone catching Sad for a bit if he stays determined. 

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I have to wonder if Snyder shouldn't incorporate Hi leg attacks in his arsenal.  Two of my favorite all-time wrestlers were 118 pounders who both rarely, if ever went to their knees and were great....Joe Gonzales (Cal State at Bakersfield) who went 55-0 with 448 takedowns his senior year (both national records)  Joe rarely went to his knees.  The other was Jimmy Haines (Wisconsin) who won the NCAA in 1977 and had 224 takedowns in 39 matches.  They both had high leg attacks, and Russ Hellickson, one of Jimmy's coaches wrestled that way as well.  I put together a video of Joe and Jimmy years ago and used it occasionally when I thought it fit a kids style.

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14 hours ago, fadzaev2 said:

Ironically, neither of the guys in this photo are Randy Lewis.  They couldn't find a photo of Randy sticking his leg "out there"?

 

In addition, the White guy is the one holding the a leg.

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I can’t believe no one else has mentioned this, at least as far as I know and have seen/read.

Was I the only person who noticed Saduluev gasping for air, taking deep, labored breaths while laying on his back on the mat with his fists lying on his forehead? 

Not only was it labored breathing, he was grimacing like he was completely spent.

Now one can say who cares how spent he is if he wins the match and has enough energy during the match to win. I get that. 
 

But this falls in line with the brutally obvious blueprint for Snyder to beat Saduluev again… the same way he did the first time. Wear him out.

Cael was screaming at Kyle to get going in the 1st period, let alone the last 30 secs when the camera caught Cael up close relaying the same to Snyder.

Now I’m not suggesting Snyder shoots aimlessly on arguably the best defensive wrestler in the world.. but what I am saying is Kyle needs to convince himself that he is the larger, stronger wrestler OVER AN ENTIRE 2 PERIODS. In the 3 matches I’ve watched, Kyle has shown to me he has the better tank than Saduluev. Saduluev may and can match Snyder’s strength in burst throughout the match, but I absolutely convinced that Kyle can beat Saduluev again if he Gilman’s or even better Desanto’s Saduluev for 2 full periods straight.

Saduluev has mentioned Snyder’s size and strength multiple times in interviews as being tops at 97 KG he has wrestled, he actually described Snyder as the much bigger and stronger wrestler than J’Den Cox when asked to compare the two. (Which I don’t agree w at all btw).

Saduluev without question has the psychological advantage with Snyder, and he even has cautioned Snyder in interviews in the past to basically slow his roll.. Snyder hypes the meeting between the 2 and Saduluev downplays them. This is important because Saduluev knows Snyder will be impatient and try to score and it plays right into his strength.

Instead if trying to score on Saduluev right away, I would like to see him harass and horse Saduluev with heavy hands and snaps, look for early pushouts but the main objective being wear Saduluev down and keep the score low and close. Saduluev has shown twice now his cardio is spent at the end of the 2nd after Snyder goes on an offensive barrage.

Freestyle rewards commanding the center of the mat and active forward moving hand fighting more so than offensive shots and moves altogether so this approach also plays into avoiding being put on caution clock1st period as well.

So again, I’d like to see Kyle hirse Saduluev and look to score like he has and does … defensively and push outs for the first period and an half. Then with a minute and an half to go, give Saduluev the same offensive onslaught hes been given when Kyle was down and needed to score. I truly believe the key the key to beating him again. Don’t wrestle to his strength, use his size and strength to wear him down, then crush his cardio that Kyle has proven to have the better tank.

 

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46 minutes ago, Aviator12 said:

So again, I’d like to see Kyle hirse Saduluev and look to score like he has and does … defensively and push outs for the first period and an half. Then with a minute and an half to go, give Saduluev the same offensive onslaught hes been given when Kyle was down and needed to score. I truly believe the key the key to beating him again. Don’t wrestle to his strength, use his size and strength to wear him down, then crush his cardio that Kyle has proven to have the better tank.

This is so laughable. At this level just having a gas tank isn't enough. The Russians have incredible technique to go alongside the gas tank (PEDs also help too). I am thinking the US wrestlers need to focus more on the technical side than just being able to grind. DT is a prime example, although I am thinking now it's time for him to develop some turns on top.

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