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Jimmy Cinnabon

Will Spencer Lee ever win Olympic gold?

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15 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

I agree.  I think he gets 4x NCAA titles, like Dake, Stieber and Cael.  But he will have sacrificed his dreams of Olympic Gold to achieve it.

University of Iowa needs to give him more than a tab on the webpage.  He needs a trophy outside of Carver Hawkeye.

But not like Smith?

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Iowa fans crucified me for thinking he should take time to get healthy and focus on international. It would a shame 20 years down the road to wonder how he would have done on the world stage If he gets hurt again going after a 4th title. I'm personally a bigger fan of my country and fielding the best team than to the allegiance of my college team. But then again he might know that he's already done after this season.

Edited by Sublime607

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2 minutes ago, Mr. Poopy butthole said:

Folks here claiming that Spencer Lee sacrificed his goals for the team, that he did so involuntarily at the behest of the Iowa coaches no less, dont know Spencer, his family, or the Iowa coaches and must not have watched a single interview he's given over the years 

So since you seem to know more than the rest of us. I have always wondered who gets the big piece of chicken at the dinner table being that both parents are accomplished judo competitor's themselves. First point wins? 2 out of 3? 

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25 minutes ago, BAC said:

Lee is a poster child of why NOT to go to Iowa.  He is living proof that the coaches will prioritize their own glory over the best individual interests of their athletes.

Berge- serious concussions. Still allowed in the lineup.

Kerkvliet- allegedly had one practice in three months after staph and blood poisoning which forced him on bed rest and caused him to lose thirty pounds of muscle. Allowed to wrestle in a d1 dual and an extra match, just to help the team in Big 10 and nationals.  Don't forget that he also  has an unrepaired torn ACL. 

Taylor- knocked unconscious at worlds.  Seriously concussed.  Coaches let him continue to wrestle.

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1 hour ago, BobDole said:

In wrestling, he is 45% bionic man already. He will be 100% soon.

I'm beginning to see Bob's point.  As active (at their age) as Bob and AHamilton are on these here boards why couldn't SLee hang around for another ~80 years and win 18 to 20 golds?

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1 hour ago, AHamilton said:

Berge- serious concussions. Still allowed in the lineup.

Kerkvliet- allegedly had one practice in three months after staph and blood poisoning which forced him on bed rest and caused him to lose thirty pounds of muscle. Allowed to wrestle in a d1 dual and an extra match, just to help the team in Big 10 and nationals.  Don't forget that he also  has an unrepaired torn ACL. 

Taylor- knocked unconscious at worlds.  Seriously concussed.  Coaches let him continue to wrestle.

Suriano - had injury before NCAAs.  Begged and pleaded with his coaches to let him wrestle, which would help ensure teams win NCAA title. Trainers/docs don't forbid it, but recommend against Suriano competing.  Suriano insists.  Coaches say tough luck kid, and sit Suriano.  Suriano, furious, transfers to another school.

Your double-standard argument doesn't work.  All wrestlers get injured, and most will wrestle after.  The question is whether the coaches, in the close calls, err on the side of the athlete's health, or on the side of their own selfish desires.  The Suriano example shows with remarkable clarity where the PSU coaches stand.  The fact that Berge, Kerkvliet, Taylor, or anyone else wrestled after an injury doesn't mean a single thing, unless there's some some reason to believe that it likely went against medical advice.

We're not privy to the medical advice Lee received but we know this:  He declined surgery on a bad ACL for over a year, wrestled for Iowa anyway on one and then two bad ACLs, and within days of walking off the mat he announced his Olympic dreams were crush due to his bum knees.  Does anyone doubt for a second that Lee was warned by his docs that this would happen?  And Iowa's coaches, instead of stepping in as PSU/Suriano, put him on the mat and let it happen.  But hey, at least Brands got his title and a nice contract extension to boot, so I guess all's well that ends well if you're an Iowa coach.  

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12 minutes ago, Elevator said:

Lee just won junior world championships (also other like Carr and Hall) - so I guess his knee is ok.  

During which century was that?

Edited by unbiased

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3 hours ago, BAC said:

Lee is a poster child of why NOT to go to Iowa.  He is living proof that the coaches will prioritize their own glory over the best individual interests of their athletes.

I'd like to see Spencer Lee wrestle an International freestyle tournament just to see where he is at. 

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1 hour ago, BAC said:

Suriano - had injury before NCAAs.  Begged and pleaded with his coaches to let him wrestle, which would help ensure teams win NCAA title. Trainers/docs don't forbid it, but recommend against Suriano competing.  Suriano insists.  Coaches say tough luck kid, and sit Suriano.  Suriano, furious, transfers to another school.

Your double-standard argument doesn't work.  All wrestlers get injured, and most will wrestle after.  The question is whether the coaches, in the close calls, err on the side of the athlete's health, or on the side of their own selfish desires.  The Suriano example shows with remarkable clarity where the PSU coaches stand.  The fact that Berge, Kerkvliet, Taylor, or anyone else wrestled after an injury doesn't mean a single thing, unless there's some some reason to believe that it likely went against medical advice.

We're not privy to the medical advice Lee received but we know this:  He declined surgery on a bad ACL for over a year, wrestled for Iowa anyway on one and then two bad ACLs, and within days of walking off the mat he announced his Olympic dreams were crush due to his bum knees.  Does anyone doubt for a second that Lee was warned by his docs that this would happen?  And Iowa's coaches, instead of stepping in as PSU/Suriano, put him on the mat and let it happen.  But hey, at least Brands got his title and a nice contract extension to boot, so I guess all's well that ends well if you're an Iowa coach.  

Spencer Lee stated his goal was to be a 4x champ, and help win 2 team titles.  Then go for gold.  One more season and he accomplishes what he set out to do at the NCAA level.  Everything i've heard and read said it was 100% his choice to wrestle with the torn ACL's.

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31 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

I'd like to see Spencer Lee wrestle an International freestyle tournament just to see where he is at. 

Probably a while before that happens.  Really hope he can get his knees fixed up.  I really think he can win gold on the world/Olympic level, which is why it so bitter to see parochial coaches sideline if not sacrifice his potential in favor of lesser goals.  

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35 minutes ago, Bozak2018 said:

Spencer Lee stated his goal was to be a 4x champ, and help win 2 team titles.  Then go for gold.  One more season and he accomplishes what he set out to do at the NCAA level.  Everything i've heard and read said it was 100% his choice to wrestle with the torn ACL's.

What?  Lee NEVER once stated he wanted to complete his collegiate career before going for gold.  Where did you get that idea from?  Brands?

Here is what Lee *really* said:

“[Withdrawing from the Olympic Trials] was about as hard as you could imagine, I guess,” Lee said.

“I always used to say that I would trade anything for an Olympic gold medal. [Head coach Tom Brands] doesn’t like me saying that very much because he doesn’t want you shortchanging winning national titles . . . ."

“It is my dream,” Lee said. “It is my only dream, really...."

https://dailyiowan.com/2021/03/29/iowa-wrestlings-spencer-lee-speaks-on-withdrawal-from-u-s-olympic-trials/

Breaks my heart to read that.  Anyone who follows Spencer knows that *of course* he'd wrestle on two bum ACLs.  He's also wrestle if his arm was hanging by a tendon and his eyeball dangling from its socket.  That's why he needs unselfish coaches who will tell him no, who will keep their thoroughbred from competing when he needs to heal, who will put the best long-term interests of their wrestlers over their own craving of short-term NCAA glory and a nice contract extension. 

But hey, I'm sure all you Iowa supporters are pleased as punch that Brands was able to convince Lee to prioritize collegiate success over world success, because I haven't heard a peep of regret from a single Iowa fan.  Use 'em up and throw 'em away, right?  Screw Spencer, screw the USA, Iowa Iowa uber alles! 

Edited by BAC

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10 minutes ago, BAC said:

What?  Lee NEVER once stated he wanted to complete his collegiate career before going for gold.  Where did you get that idea from?  Brands?

Here is what Lee *really* said:

“[Withdrawing from the Olympic Trials] was about as hard as you could imagine, I guess,” Lee said.

“I always used to say that I would trade anything for an Olympic gold medal. [Head coach Tom Brands] doesn’t like me saying that very much because he doesn’t want you shortchanging winning national titles . . . ."

“It is my dream,” Lee said. “It is my only dream, really...."

https://dailyiowan.com/2021/03/29/iowa-wrestlings-spencer-lee-speaks-on-withdrawal-from-u-s-olympic-trials/

Breaks my heart to read that.  But I'm sure all you Iowa supporters are pleased as punch that Brands was able to convince Lee to prioritize collegiate success over world success.  Use 'em up and throw 'em away, right?

 

Jeez dude. Talk about fake news. Here is what Lee says in literally the next paragraph:

 

“It is my dream,” Lee said. “It is my only dream, really. It’s my main dream, I guess you could say, not my only dream. To have it taken away from me basically off my own decision is pretty hard. But I do know that that’s what’s best for me. It’s the decision that we came to, and I believe in our entire staff as a whole. Their decision is final, and it’s the best thing for me, and I agree with them, and it was a decision I also made myself. It was my decision, ultimately, if I wanted to compete, I would be if I thought it was in my best interest, and it wasn’t. So, here I am.”

 

This is in conjunction with the interview that Lee gave during the NCAA's where he said that skipping nationals and vying for a medical redshirt was put on the table but HE (Lee) made the decision to compete and admitted to being quite obstinate about it. But hey, you obviously have a strict agenda that you're adherent to so no surprise that no amount of facts will get in the way of that.

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12 minutes ago, Mr. Poopy butthole said:

 

Jeez dude. Talk about fake news....

So if Brands said jump off this cliff, and Lee did so, and fell to his death... that'd be Lee's fault right?  After all it was his choice.

Lee will do whatever his coaches ask.  He will push himself to his breaking point if they do nothing.  If his coaches step in, he will stop. 

How convenient that the Iowa coaches felt he wasn't too injured to compete (and that surgery could wait) whenever he was in a black and gold singlet, but suddenly feared for his well-being when his singlet colors are red, white and blue.

Of course Lee goes along with it:  He trusts his coaches implicitly.  But he deserves coaches that care about more than just themselves.

Edited by BAC

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3 minutes ago, BAC said:

So if Brands said jump off this cliff, and Lee did so, and fell to his death... that'd be Lee's fault right?  After all it was his choice.

Lee will do whatever his coaches ask.  He will push himself to his breaking point if they do nothing.  If his coaches step in, he will stop. 

How convenient that the Iowa coaches felt he wasn't too injured to compete (and that surgery could wait) whenever he was in a black and gold singlet, but suddenly feared for his well-being when his singlet colors are red, white and blue.

Of course Lee goes along with it:  He trusts his coaches implicitly.  But he deserves coaches that care about more than just themselves.

So you're the kinda guy that would decide for themselves what another person thinks rather than take them at their word? Got it. Carry on, have at it. I don't want to be a part of this conversation anymore

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30 minutes ago, Mr. Poopy butthole said:

So you're the kinda guy that would decide for themselves what another person thinks rather than take them at their word? Got it. Carry on, have at it. I don't want to be a part of this conversation anymore

I'm the kinda guy that wants wrestlers to get guidance from coaches who don't put their own self-interest above that of their athletes.

Edited by BAC

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3 hours ago, BAC said:

Suriano - had injury before NCAAs.  Begged and pleaded with his coaches to let him wrestle, which would help ensure teams win NCAA title. Trainers/docs don't forbid it, but recommend against Suriano competing.  Suriano insists.  Coaches say tough luck kid, and sit Suriano.  Suriano, furious, transfers to another school.

Your double-standard argument doesn't work.  All wrestlers get injured, and most will wrestle after.  The question is whether the coaches, in the close calls, err on the side of the athlete's health, or on the side of their own selfish desires.  The Suriano example shows with remarkable clarity where the PSU coaches stand.  The fact that Berge, Kerkvliet, Taylor, or anyone else wrestled after an injury doesn't mean a single thing, unless there's some some reason to believe that it likely went against medical advice.

We're not privy to the medical advice Lee received but we know this:  He declined surgery on a bad ACL for over a year, wrestled for Iowa anyway on one and then two bad ACLs, and within days of walking off the mat he announced his Olympic dreams were crush due to his bum knees.  Does anyone doubt for a second that Lee was warned by his docs that this would happen?  And Iowa's coaches, instead of stepping in as PSU/Suriano, put him on the mat and let it happen.  But hey, at least Brands got his title and a nice contract extension to boot, so I guess all's well that ends well if you're an Iowa coach.  

Maybe the Suriano situation changed Cael's mind?  

Let us look at more recent cases:

PSU puts Kerkvliet out on one ACL every time he steps on the mat.  No different than Lee was before Big 10 finals.  Except Kerk also only had one practice in three months, supposedly.  

Oh... and they pulled his redshirt because they thought he would give them a chance for a ... "team title"

The head injury stuff is a lot more scary than ACLs.  It doesn't seem to bother the PSU/NLWC staff all that much.

Edited by AHamilton

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22 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

Maybe the Suriano situation changed Cael's mind?  

Let us look at more recent cases:

PSU puts Kerkvliet out on one ACL every time he steps on the mat.  No different than Lee was before Big 10 finals.  Except Kerk also only had one practice in three months, supposedly.  

The head injury stuff is a lot more scary than ACLs.  It doesn't seem to bother the PSU/NLWC staff all that much.

I'd be the first in line to call for PSU coaches' heads if I thought they were prioritizing team above athlete health.  But I don't see it.  Berge was out for months with injuries and is done wrestling now, at least for PSU.  Kerk's ACL issues long predated his relatively recent time at PSU, and his competing at NCAAs didn't impact his ability to compete at OTTs.  All these situations have the hallmarks of a coaching staff that followed medical recommendations, and the Suriano situation gives extra confidence that we know where the PSU staff's priorities lie.  Lee by contrast competed for two years on a bum knee, bypassing surgery over and over so it wouldn't impact his ability to wrestle in black and gold, and then when OTTs come, Lee has two busted knees that have received zero surgical attention and he has to take a pass.  It is beyond comprehension that the Iowa coaches would have him competing hurt for two years, never pulling him to fix his knee in time for the Olympics.  As a result, Lee's lifelong dream is crushed.  But you can bet Iowa's coaches will have him back on the mat this this fall for the Hawks. 

Edited by BAC

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19 minutes ago, BAC said:

I'd be the first in line to call for PSU coaches' heads if I thought they were prioritizing team above athlete health.  But I don't see it.  Berge was out for months with injuries and is done wrestling now, at least for PSU.  Kerk's ACL issues long predated his relatively recent time at PSU, and his competing at NCAAs didn't impact his ability to compete at OTTs.  All these situations have the hallmarks of a coaching staff that followed medical recommendations, and the Suriano situation gives extra confidence that we know where the PSU staff's priorities lie.  Lee by contrast competed for two years on a bum knee, bypassing surgery over and over so it wouldn't impact his ability to wrestle in black and gold, and then when OTTs come, Lee has two busted knees that have received zero surgical attention and he has to take a pass.  It is beyond comprehension that the Iowa coaches would have him competing hurt for two years, never pulling him to fix his knee in time for the Olympics.  As a result, Lee's lifelong dream is crushed.  But you can bet he'll be back on the mat this this fall for Iowa. 

You clearly have not listened to the interviews done with Lee.  You also, probably don't understand that doing a second ACL repair on the same knee is a significantly longer rehab.  You just like to hate on the Brands... that is ok.

Meanwhile, Cael did let a clearly compromised  Berge wrestle two matches in 2020.  Taylor was also allowed to continue in 2018 Worlds after being concussed.  I don't remember Will Smith starring in a movie called "ACL."

What is the difference between Kerk wrestling on one ACL and Lee wrestling the season on one ACL?  Oh... different singlet colors.

Edited by AHamilton

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1 hour ago, AHamilton said:

You clearly have not listened to the interviews done with Lee.  You also, probably don't understand that doing a second ACL repair on the same knee is a significantly longer rehab.  You just like to hate on the Brands... that is ok.

Meanwhile, Cael did let a clearly compromised  Berge wrestle two matches in 2020.  Taylor was also allowed to continue in 2018 Worlds after being concussed.  I don't remember Will Smith starring in a movie called "ACL."

What is the difference between Kerk wrestling on one ACL and Lee wrestling the season on one ACL?  Oh... different singlet colors.

How many guys are dive rolling on Kerk and twisting his knees at heavyweight lol 

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2 hours ago, BAC said:

I'm the kinda guy that wants wrestlers to get guidance from coaches who don't put their own self-interest above that of their athletes.

Save your breath ...I beat this same drum for weeks and Iowa fans can only see as far as there next team title , if Spencer sat out this past season to heal and was able to compete in trials he might be an Olympic champ right now and healthy going into his last year, instead he wrestled hurt in a shortened year beating up the likes of Brandon Courtney and Devin Schroeder to help Iowa win a title and now he’s going into his senior year with 2 bum knees and I can’t imagine him beating suriano without any ACLS ...hell I would give pat glory a chance too against injured Lee

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