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Gable Steveson not going to Worlds?

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59 minutes ago, TripNSweep said:

Unlike other countries, wrestlers chasing the Olympics in the USA aren't paid all that well. There's few opportunities to make a living unless you want to coach. The top guy or girl on the ladder still gets a stipend of like 25k a year. The next 2 get like 15 and 10 or something. You want guys like Steveson to not chase the money? Make it worth it. The minimum NFL salary is still more than the Living the Dream fund. Don't blame the fans who want to see our own be successful. Blame USA wrestling who pays their secretaries and support staff more than the athletes. You can't live too well on being a volunteer coach who gets an extra 10k a year by placing 2nd or 3rd at the trials. When you can't wrestle then what? Fortunately in our country we've had wrestlers who were able to turn that Olympic gold into something, besides just wrestling more. 

We're a sport who relies on fans to keep it going. The Living the Dream fund wouldn't exist if it wasn't for fans of wrestling. Most of the major clubs who sponsor wrestlers wouldn't exist if it wasn't for fans of the sport. We don't have TV deals, merchandise, etc like the big league sports and entertainment have. One popular WWE wrestlers merch probably sells more in a year than everything USA wrestling and the individual wrestlers themselves sell. 

Without fans and people who put their money where their mouth is, we'd be relegated to 3rd class status and watching heavily edited NCAA wrestling finals on tape delay at 2am. 

This was true a decade ago, but with 200K instagram followers, Gable, Taylor, and Mensah Stock can easily monetize their success.  That is on top of the $$$ paid by RTCs to have them train locally, plus the huge fees they will now command from wrestling camps/clinics, plus the $$ that streaming services will pay to have them compete on their cards.  Add on to that $$ that Taylor gets from his high school training facilities (Gable  could easily do the same thing in Minn). I wouldn't be surprised if Burroughs/Taylor make more money than the olympic champs from Russia/Iran now. Of course, that is nothing compared to the NFL, golf, tennis, etc.  But if you followed Adam Coon's attempt at making the NFL, the days of Stephen Neel are over-the level of athlete in the NFL today is very different than it was 20 years ago. Gable is an incredible athlete, but has zero chance of making an NFL roster.  

There is more money in MMA if they can become the next Cormier. But that is not likely. MMA fans are much more likely to pay to watch a Masvidal or Mcregor than an elite wrester.  Cejudo quit MMA, despite being a great fighter, because he wasn't a PPV draw, so wasn't getting the $$ he wanted. Guys like Rosholt, Askren, and Pico did not flop in MMA because of their wrestling-the ability to take/throw a punch isn't guaranteed for a world class wrestler.

There is also more money in WWE if they can become a Lesnar or Angle.  But that is also unlikely.  Do we really think Chas Betts has struck riches?  In WWE, he is at the mercy of whatever the WWE writers want, and whatever the megalomaniac Vince Mcmahon wants to see happen.  His success in WWE is completely out of his hands and depends entirely on whether he's liked by the WWE fanbase.  Then there are the long term health consequences of being juiced to the gills until your mid 40s.  Not so good on the heart.  

Gable hinting at WWE/MMA, and doing appearances at their events, to get attention very smart-it increases his media presence and brings him more fans.  Actually joining MMA/WWE is not.  I will concede though that the move makes a lot of sense for a guy like Nickal. 

Edited by Billyhoyle

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Sooo...it is unlikely he is successful unless he continues to wrestle...got it.  <eye roll>

Seriously didn't know this forum had so many experts on WWE and MMA, as well as any of the other money making ventures talented and popular people can go after.  You guys must be EXTREMELY successful and rich by choosing the absolute most perfect profession in your life.  Good for you...good for you...

How about this...just because you don't like a certain thing (WWE or MMA), it shouldn't mean someone else shouldn't do it or it is a bad choice if they do.  As someone said, some of ya'all need to get over yourselves!

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8 hours ago, BAC said:

If I didn't know better I'd think I was on a WWE forum, seeing how many supposed wrestling fans are cheerleading for Gable to choose the WWE or pretty much anything else over wrestling.  Seriously, why are some of you guys even here?  If you don't see wrestling as a worthy pursuit in and of itself, but only as a stepping stone to other, supposedly "bigger" things, like the WWE, or acting, or MMA, or anything that is apt to put more money in your pocket than wrestling, then you really ought not call yourself a wrestling fan.

And spare me the "don't tell him what to do" crap.  As billyhoyle said, almost all of the content on the board is opinions of what a wrestler should do:  go to Penn State, no go to Iowa, he should have taken top, he shouldn't have stalled, he should bump up a weight, I can't believe he transferred, go freestyle, no go Greco instead, fight through the injury...  Everyone has a different opinion, but when a generational talent comes along and his decision isn't where to wrestle or what style or weight, but whether to continue wrestling *at all* -- as opposed to following the almighty dollar -- you would think that the ONE place where people would defend wrestling would be the message boards of USA Wrestling.

Apparently not.  You guys are tripping over yourselves to get Gable out of a singlet before, heaven forbid, he loses salary leverage with the WWE.

No one is saying Gable ought not follow his dreams -- and if his dreams involve something other than wrestling, than so be it.  I'd never begrudge someone that.  But we don't know his dreams.  We do, however, know he has a passion and gift for wrestling.  When someone has a passion and a true gift for something, where they're not just in the top 5% or 1% but literally among the handful of the best in the world -- to the point that they can advance the techniques and boundaries of greatness -- you support that.  And when they face a monetary lure to do something else about which they are less passionate and less gifted (but pays more), the better advice is almost always to follow your passion and gift.  Are those extra dollars really going to buy you anything close to the life satisfaction you get from being the best in the world at your craft?

Gable is special.  In his first major senior international tournament, he just outscored on his feet, by something like 7 takedowns to 1, the two guys who collectively accounted for every single world and Olympic gold since 2014.  And he's only 21.  You'd think the fans of international wrestling would recognize what a revelation he is, and bend over backwards to make the case that wrestling, incredible and pure and gorgeous sport that it is, is worthy of his talents and passion -- even if it puts a few less dollars in his pocket.  But most of you guys can't show him the door fast enough, can you? 

No wonder wrestling is a dying sport.  Its own fan base is infiltrated by traitors.

my screen just cracked from rolling my eyes so hard...

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8 hours ago, BAC said:

If I didn't know better I'd think I was on a WWE forum, seeing how many supposed wrestling fans are cheerleading for Gable to choose the WWE or pretty much anything else over wrestling.  Seriously, why are some of you guys even here?  If you don't see wrestling as a worthy pursuit in and of itself, but only as a stepping stone to other, supposedly "bigger" things, like the WWE, or acting, or MMA, or anything that is apt to put more money in your pocket than wrestling, then you really ought not call yourself a wrestling fan.

And spare me the "don't tell him what to do" crap.  As billyhoyle said, almost all of the content on the board is opinions of what a wrestler should do:  go to Penn State, no go to Iowa, he should have taken top, he shouldn't have stalled, he should bump up a weight, I can't believe he transferred, go freestyle, no go Greco instead, fight through the injury...  Everyone has a different opinion, but when a generational talent comes along and his decision isn't where to wrestle or what style or weight, but whether to continue wrestling *at all* -- as opposed to following the almighty dollar -- you would think that the ONE place where people would defend wrestling would be the message boards of USA Wrestling.

Apparently not.  You guys are tripping over yourselves to get Gable out of a singlet before, heaven forbid, he loses salary leverage with the WWE.

No one is saying Gable ought not follow his dreams -- and if his dreams involve something other than wrestling, than so be it.  I'd never begrudge someone that.  But we don't know his dreams.  We do, however, know he has a passion and gift for wrestling.  When someone has a passion and a true gift for something, where they're not just in the top 5% or 1% but literally among the handful of the best in the world -- to the point that they can advance the techniques and boundaries of greatness -- you support that.  And when they face a monetary lure to do something else about which they are less passionate and less gifted (but pays more), the better advice is almost always to follow your passion and gift.  Are those extra dollars really going to buy you anything close to the life satisfaction you get from being the best in the world at your craft?

Gable is special.  In his first major senior international tournament, he just outscored on his feet, by something like 7 takedowns to 1, the two guys who collectively accounted for every single world and Olympic gold since 2014.  And he's only 21.  You'd think the fans of international wrestling would recognize what a revelation he is, and bend over backwards to make the case that wrestling, incredible and pure and gorgeous sport that it is, is worthy of his talents and passion -- even if it puts a few less dollars in his pocket.  But most of you guys can't show him the door fast enough, can you? 

No wonder wrestling is a dying sport.  Its own fan base is infiltrated by traitors.

This is not overly dramatic at all....

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8 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

This was true a decade ago, but with 200K instagram followers, Gable, Taylor, and Mensah Stock can easily monetize their success.  That is on top of the $$$ paid by RTCs to have them train locally, plus the huge fees they will now command from wrestling camps/clinics, plus the $$ that streaming services will pay to have them compete on their cards.  Add on to that $$ that Taylor gets from his high school training facilities (Gable  could easily do the same thing in Minn). I wouldn't be surprised if Burroughs/Taylor make more money than the olympic champs from Russia/Iran now. Of course, that is nothing compared to the NFL, golf, tennis, etc.  But if you followed Adam Coon's attempt at making the NFL, the days of Stephen Neel are over-the level of athlete in the NFL today is very different than it was 20 years ago. Gable is an incredible athlete, but has zero chance of making an NFL roster.  

There is more money in MMA if they can become the next Cormier. But that is not likely. MMA fans are much more likely to pay to watch a Masvidal or Mcregor than an elite wrester.  Cejudo quit MMA, despite being a great fighter, because he wasn't a PPV draw, so wasn't getting the $$ he wanted. Guys like Rosholt, Askren, and Pico did not flop in MMA because of their wrestling-the ability to take/throw a punch isn't guaranteed for a world class wrestler.

There is also more money in WWE if they can become a Lesnar or Angle.  But that is also unlikely.  Do we really think Chas Betts has struck riches?  In WWE, he is at the mercy of whatever the WWE writers want, and whatever the megalomaniac Vince Mcmahon wants to see happen.  His success in WWE is completely out of his hands and depends entirely on whether he's liked by the WWE fanbase.  Then there are the long term health consequences of being juiced to the gills until your mid 40s.  Not so good on the heart.  

Gable hinting at WWE/MMA, and doing appearances at their events, to get attention very smart-it increases his media presence and brings him more fans.  Actually joining MMA/WWE is not.  I will concede though that the move makes a lot of sense for a guy like Nickal. 

You’re not claiming that Askren flopped in MMA are you?? Even Pico can not be considered a flop yet.  Not really familiar with Rosholt.

And I’m pretty sure “being juiced to the gills” isn’t nearly as common in the WWE today as it used to be.  I’m sure some guys still do it but technically they have a testing policy...

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8 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

This was true a decade ago, but with 200K instagram followers, Gable, Taylor, and Mensah Stock can easily monetize their success.  That is on top of the $$$ paid by RTCs to have them train locally, plus the huge fees they will now command from wrestling camps/clinics, plus the $$ that streaming services will pay to have them compete on their cards.  Add on to that $$ that Taylor gets from his high school training facilities (Gable  could easily do the same thing in Minn). I wouldn't be surprised if Burroughs/Taylor make more money than the olympic champs from Russia/Iran now. Of course, that is nothing compared to the NFL, golf, tennis, etc.  But if you followed Adam Coon's attempt at making the NFL, the days of Stephen Neel are over-the level of athlete in the NFL today is very different than it was 20 years ago. Gable is an incredible athlete, but has zero chance of making an NFL roster.  

There is more money in MMA if they can become the next Cormier. But that is not likely. MMA fans are much more likely to pay to watch a Masvidal or Mcregor than an elite wrester.  Cejudo quit MMA, despite being a great fighter, because he wasn't a PPV draw, so wasn't getting the $$ he wanted. Guys like Rosholt, Askren, and Pico did not flop in MMA because of their wrestling-the ability to take/throw a punch isn't guaranteed for a world class wrestler.

There is also more money in WWE if they can become a Lesnar or Angle.  But that is also unlikely.  Do we really think Chas Betts has struck riches?  In WWE, he is at the mercy of whatever the WWE writers want, and whatever the megalomaniac Vince Mcmahon wants to see happen.  His success in WWE is completely out of his hands and depends entirely on whether he's liked by the WWE fanbase.  Then there are the long term health consequences of being juiced to the gills until your mid 40s.  Not so good on the heart.  

Gable hinting at WWE/MMA, and doing appearances at their events, to get attention very smart-it increases his media presence and brings him more fans.  Actually joining MMA/WWE is not.  I will concede though that the move makes a lot of sense for a guy like Nickal. 

Without certain wealthy patrons who love wrestling, we would be relegated to 3rd class. Other countries take very good care of their athletes, and here we pay big executive salaries and support staff more than the actual athletes. Could you imagine how that would look if the front office workers for an NFL team made double what the highest paid player on the team made? 

Here we have a sport with few financial incentives, a limited career path when you're done, and major media recognition only once every 4 years. Not to mention a grueling process to continue that level of success. 

Steveson has set himself up for a long time if he makes the right decisions and surrounds himself with the right people. Right now he's got all the power in the world to command his payday. No reason to derail that by possibly losing at a tournament nobody outside of wrestling fans pays attention to or cares about.

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12 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

 

There is also more money in WWE if they can become a Lesnar or Angle.  But that is also unlikely.  Do we really think Chas Betts has struck riches?  In WWE, he is at the mercy of whatever the WWE writers want, and whatever the megalomaniac Vince Mcmahon wants to see happen.  His success in WWE is completely out of his hands and depends entirely on whether he's liked by the WWE fanbase. 

 

I don't think this is how the WWE works. The performers greatly infuence what the match fixers write. 

A good analogy is the 19th C serialized novel. Dickens had a general idea about where the plot would go, but how he got there largely depended on fan response and the popularity of certain characters. 

Same thing with serialized TV, eg Jesse in Breaking Bad was supposed go be killed off pretty quickly.

 

Edited by jackwebster

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18 minutes ago, jmachinder said:

I feel like Gable should watch the 1950 film "The Night and the City."  Gregorius could get him back on track.  

I haven't watched the film so do not know the story line but interesting to note there is a mention of couple of actors who had professional wrestling background. Only a few years later, even Iran had their celebrity actor from  wrestling in Mohammad Ali Fardin in the 60's- He 'only' had a world  silver medal and was not like Steveson an Olympic gold medalist at 21.

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1 hour ago, jackwebster said:

A good analogy is the 19th C serialized novel. Dickens had a general idea about where the plot would go, but how he got there largely depended on fan response and the popularity of certain characters. 

This is great. Charles Dickens stories as an analogy to WWE storylines. I'm not being snarky. I'm legitimately impressed.

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3 minutes ago, IronChef said:

This is great. Charles Dickens stories as an analogy to WWE storylines. I'm not being snarky. I'm legitimately impressed.

To be fair, most 19th serialized fiction -like most WWE storylines/character development -- sucked, hence the "penny dreadfuls" moniker. But every medium has a Dickens; so, maybe WWE does/will too: 


https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/weekly-standard/pro-wrestling-and-the-end-of-history

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3 hours ago, jackwebster said:

I don't think this is how the WWE works. The performers greatly infuence what the match fixers write. 

A good analogy is the 19th C serialized novel. Dickens had a general idea about where the plot would go, but how he got there largely depended on fan response and the popularity of certain characters. 

Same thing with serialized TV, eg Jesse in Breaking Bad was supposed go be killed off pretty quickly.

 

Right-I said his success will depend on whether he is liked (or hated as a heel) by the fans.  That will determine what the writers do with his storyline.  But also, if Vince doesn't like him, he's SOL. Chas Betts is a more accomplished wrestler than anyone in WWE, but he is an afterthought because he doesn't have the right look/isn't that popular with the fans.  Is that really a great career decision for Gable? As opposed to being the best in the world in something he has complete control over that is very lucrative in its own right and has better exits into long-term career paths?

Edited by Billyhoyle

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4 hours ago, window12 said:

I haven't watched the film so do not know the story line but interesting to note there is a mention of couple of actors who had professional wrestling background. Only a few years later, even Iran had their celebrity actor from  wrestling in Mohammad Ali Fardin in the 60's- He 'only' had a world  silver medal and was not like Steveson an Olympic gold medalist at 21.

 

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1 hour ago, Billyhoyle said:

Right-I said his success will depend on whether he is liked (or hated as a heel) by the fans.  That will determine what the writers do with his storyline.  But also, if Vince doesn't like him, he's SOL. Chas Betts is a more accomplished wrestler than anyone in WWE, but he is an afterthought because he doesn't have the right look/isn't that popular with the fans.  Is that really a great career decision for Gable? As opposed to being the best in the world in something he has complete control over that is very lucrative in its own right and has better exits into long-term career paths?

so...

in a nut shell...

if he isn't good at his job he won't succeed...

like every other fukn job on this planet...

as an example...

PD3 make a fukn world team on merit alone and you people still give him no credit because of some silly BS that did not appeal to you all...

act self righteous all you want...

type the longest most pretentious post you can...

pat yourself on the back until you develop bursitis and whine about it to strangers at a crosswalk...

gable should and will do gable...

if you do not celebrate that then you probably should reevaluate your own life... 

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1 hour ago, Billyhoyle said:

Right-I said his success will depend on whether he is liked (or hated as a heel) by the fans.  That will determine what the writers do with his storyline.  But also, if Vince doesn't like him, he's SOL. Chas Betts is a more accomplished wrestler than anyone in WWE, but he is an afterthought because he doesn't have the right look/isn't that popular with the fans.  Is that really a great career decision for Gable? As opposed to being the best in the world in something he has complete control over that is very lucrative in its own right and has better exits into long-term career paths?

Estimated net worth= $1.8 million.  If accurate, he's not doing as well as Conor MacGregor, but still doing better than most of the world.

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9 hours ago, AHamilton said:

Estimated net worth= $1.8 million.  If accurate, he's not doing as well as Conor MacGregor, but still doing better than most of the world.

Yeah looks like he was signed by the WWE in 2013 and is still active, so not like he flamed out.

Also 281k twitter followers, 356k Instagram followers 

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10 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

Right-I said his success will depend on whether he is liked (or hated as a heel) by the fans.  That will determine what the writers do with his storyline.  But also, if Vince doesn't like him, he's SOL. Chas Betts is a more accomplished wrestler than anyone in WWE, but he is an afterthought because he doesn't have the right look/isn't that popular with the fans.  Is that really a great career decision for Gable? As opposed to being the best in the world in something he has complete control over that is very lucrative in its own right and has better exits into long-term career paths?

By “long-term career paths,” you mean coaching right?  What is stopping Gable from getting into coaching later if whatever he does next doesn’t work out?  The only thing would be some type of career ending injury but of course that’s possible in wrestling too.

And I can’t believe you said he could “easily” do what Taylor did with M2.  Yes his name would attract a lot of kids but starting a brand new club is far from easy and we don’t even know if he’s a good coach.  That said even 5 years from now or whatever I’m sure any college would hire him as a heavyweights coach or at worst a “volunteer assistant” that gets paid by the RTC where he could learn more about coaching.   

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14 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

Right-I said his success will depend on whether he is liked (or hated as a heel) by the fans.  That will determine what the writers do with his storyline.  But also, if Vince doesn't like him, he's SOL. Chas Betts is a more accomplished wrestler than anyone in WWE, but he is an afterthought because he doesn't have the right look/isn't that popular with the fans.  Is that really a great career decision for Gable? As opposed to being the best in the world in something he has complete control over that is very lucrative in its own right and has better exits into long-term career paths?

Apologies. My language skills took a vacation yesterday. I didn't even catch your last sentence. I had the dumb.

I would like to add that that I admire Steveson's willingness to bet on himself. It's kinda the opposite of leaving your fate in the hands of others. It's the American Dream of Walter White, Tony Montana, and Vito Corleone. 

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