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Gable Steveson not going to Worlds?

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57 minutes ago, jackwebster said:

Apologies. My language skills took a vacation yesterday. I didn't even catch your last sentence. I had the dumb.

I would like to add that that I admire Steveson's willingness to bet on himself. It's kinda the opposite of leaving your fate in the hands of others. It's the American Dream of Walter White, Tony Montana, and Vito Corleone. 

"You can act like a man!"

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On 8/19/2021 at 1:20 AM, BAC said:

If I didn't know better I'd think I was on a WWE forum, seeing how many supposed wrestling fans are cheerleading for Gable to choose the WWE or pretty much anything else over wrestling.  Seriously, why are some of you guys even here?  If you don't see wrestling as a worthy pursuit in and of itself, but only as a stepping stone to other, supposedly "bigger" things, like the WWE, or acting, or MMA, or anything that is apt to put more money in your pocket than wrestling, then you really ought not call yourself a wrestling fan.

And spare me the "don't tell him what to do" crap.  As billyhoyle said, almost all of the content on the board is opinions of what a wrestler should do:  go to Penn State, no go to Iowa, he should have taken top, he shouldn't have stalled, he should bump up a weight, I can't believe he transferred, go freestyle, no go Greco instead, fight through the injury...  Everyone has a different opinion, but when a generational talent comes along and his decision isn't where to wrestle or what style or weight, but whether to continue wrestling *at all* -- as opposed to following the almighty dollar -- you would think that the ONE place where people would defend wrestling would be the message boards of USA Wrestling.

Apparently not.  You guys are tripping over yourselves to get Gable out of a singlet before, heaven forbid, he loses salary leverage with the WWE.

No one is saying Gable ought not follow his dreams -- and if his dreams involve something other than wrestling, than so be it.  I'd never begrudge someone that.  But we don't know his dreams.  We do, however, know he has a passion and gift for wrestling.  When someone has a passion and a true gift for something, where they're not just in the top 5% or 1% but literally among the handful of the best in the world -- to the point that they can advance the techniques and boundaries of greatness -- you support that.  And when they face a monetary lure to do something else about which they are less passionate and less gifted (but pays more), the better advice is almost always to follow your passion and gift.  Are those extra dollars really going to buy you anything close to the life satisfaction you get from being the best in the world at your craft?

Gable is special.  In his first major senior international tournament, he just outscored on his feet, by something like 7 takedowns to 1, the two guys who collectively accounted for every single world and Olympic gold since 2014.  And he's only 21.  You'd think the fans of international wrestling would recognize what a revelation he is, and bend over backwards to make the case that wrestling, incredible and pure and gorgeous sport that it is, is worthy of his talents and passion -- even if it puts a few less dollars in his pocket.  But most of you guys can't show him the door fast enough, can you? 

No wonder wrestling is a dying sport.  Its own fan base is infiltrated by traitors.

I think the basic takes in here are on the money, although I think the rhetoric, particularly the last sentence, is not as helpful. 

I do find it odd that people on a wrestling board would be cheering him on to skip worlds and leave wrestling. 

This is a 21 year old who overcame some ambivalent performances as a freshman, went all in, and is now one of the top 5 athletes in the world at perhaps the purest  and most honorable sport there is.  That means something, or if it doesn't then I don't know what the point of the message board is.  

So he should give that up to grab a check in a fake sport that is scripted entertainment?  

He can make a very respectable living in wrestling between bonuses for medals, training stipends, endorsements,  etc.  And not risk the very common head injuries that have been broadly alleged to ruin lives in fake wrestling. (I get a kick out of entertainment wrestling, but it is simply not competiton.)

And he can live the dream of every person who has ever put on a singlet by competing as the best at the highest level of the purest sport in the world.  

To say that he shouldn't wrestle because he can make more money elsewhere strikes me as bizarre.  Then let's shut down all folkstyle wrestling in schools and colleges and tell people to study harder, learn more math and science, work on their writing skills, get into better colleges, and make more money as doctors and lawyers and engineers.   

Don't we ourselves watch wrestling obsessively and waste time we could be spending improving our earning potentials because we believe in wrestling as a special endeavor in itself?  And here is a guy who is doing it better than any other 21 year old on the planet and we think it's great that he quits and prioritizes using this amazing accomplishment as leverage for the most money possible in a fake entertainment show? 

A kid named Gable Dan?  The post i quoted speaks eloquently about greatness.  This athlete was named for greatness and achieved a flash of that in Tokyo.  He could achieve true greatness -- Gable greatness, like John Smith and Cael Sanderson and Tom Brands have done competing as athletes, and competing with their charges as coaches. (And by the way, due respect to both guys, neither Lesnar nor even Angle had the potential for that kind of greatness, as Steveson does.)

Whatever Gable Dan Steveson does, if he leaves wrestling now, will have nothing to do with greatness. And isn't watching the quest for greatness what engenders the passion of the people who spend their time following the sport and posting about it?

I expect that Steveson will retire and I think that's what is in his heart given his past comments. He's entitled to make his choices, and if he leaves we can and should celebrate the show he's put on since Cassar exposed his lack of commitment and he rose to the challenge. 

But to me a wrestling board should mourn rather than celebrate this result, which, given the substantially improved earning potential that exists in wrestling for a 21 year old popular gold medalist in 2021, isn't dictated by financial necessity in the way it would have been 20 years ago.

Burroughs and Snyder have taken advantage of this and have achieved sustained greatness.  Not perfection, but in continually laying it on the line after Olympic gold, while making a good living, their college championships and world championships and medals, and their fighting back after defeats, is a reward in itself, the essence of the sport, for them and for American wrestling fans.

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I think people are assuming Gable is leaving for the money....no...Gable is leaving for the entertainment industry. He is incredibly marketable and his goals down the road are to start appearing in movies...and given his charisma it isn't that farfetched to think he wont achieve that.

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31 minutes ago, Rooving said:

I think people are assuming Gable is leaving for the money....no...Gable is leaving for the entertainment industry. He is incredibly marketable and his goals down the road are to start appearing in movies...and given his charisma it isn't that farfetched to think he wont achieve that.

Good point, I think that's his approach but it doesn't change my views. 

First I am not sold on him as a big star.  To me his charisma is real but may be/probably is so in a limited way (big impact in wrestling, but difficult to carry over, particularly to being a movie star, where star power is common).  He's not Shaq, who was incredibly famous and a household name from basketball, plus is an extrovert with an obvious terrific natural sense of humor.  And Shaq didn't quit the important thing he was great at, at 21.

Second, I renew my point that there's no higher point to being a star in fake competition or in being able to make some money in the movies. Even if he has some success in movies he won't be a significant actor who leaves even the slightest lasting mark on his craft.  As a wrestler he could be analogous to Paul Newman or Daniel Day Lewis or Christian Bale -- a giant, like Smith or Burroughs; as an actor he's probably looking at a best case scenario somewhere between John Cena and The Rock -- nowhere near, for instance, Sylvester Stallone. Compared to the chance to be on the Mount Rushmore of the oldest, purest and noblest competitive sport in the world, that's an opportunity lost in favor of comparatively frivolous pursuits. 

He has free will and should do what pleases him, including capitalizing on his incredible recent achievement in other pursuits if that's what he wants.  And if he goes elsewhere Tokyo can never be taken away from him.  But he'll never never even remotely replicate the seriousness of purpose or the quality of his labor in entertainment.  

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8 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Assuming he does go... how many pants will be shat when Parris wins gold at Worlds?

Akgul, Zare, and Geno are already wiping their brows because they got to dodge a second Gable bullet.

BOOM!! Parris wins Gold.

Didn’t Kerk beat Parris last time they wrestled?

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8 hours ago, Rooving said:

I think people are assuming Gable is leaving for the money....no...Gable is leaving for the entertainment industry. He is incredibly marketable and his goals down the road are to start appearing in movies...and given his charisma it isn't that farfetched to think he wont achieve that.

Isn’t that basically leaving for the money though?  (And nothing wrong with that)

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Good point, I think that's his approach but it doesn't change my views. 
First I am not sold on him as a big star.  To me his charisma is real but may be/probably is so in a limited way (big impact in wrestling, but difficult to carry over, particularly to being a movie star, where star power is common).  He's not Shaq, who was incredibly famous and a household name from basketball, plus is an extrovert with an obvious terrific natural sense of humor.  And Shaq didn't quit the important thing he was great at, at 21.
Second, I renew my point that there's no higher point to being a star in fake competition or in being able to make some money in the movies. Even if he has some success in movies he won't be a significant actor who leaves even the slightest lasting mark on his craft.  As a wrestler he could be analogous to Paul Newman or Daniel Day Lewis or Christian Bale -- a giant, like Smith or Burroughs; as an actor he's probably looking at a best case scenario somewhere between John Cena and The Rock -- nowhere near, for instance, Sylvester Stallone. Compared to the chance to be on the Mount Rushmore of the oldest, purest and noblest competitive sport in the world, that's an opportunity lost in favor of comparatively frivolous pursuits. 
He has free will and should do what pleases him, including capitalizing on his incredible recent achievement in other pursuits if that's what he wants.  And if he goes elsewhere Tokyo can never be taken away from him.  But he'll never never even remotely replicate the seriousness of purpose or the quality of his labor in entertainment.  

“Fast & Furious' Dwayne Johnson is the world's highest paid actor – and 'The Rock' spends his US$400 million net worth on real estate, and Pagani and Rolls-Royce supercars.Apr 30, 2021”

“Sylvester Stallone net worth 2020 and salary: Sylvester Stallone is an American actor, screenwriter, producer and director who has a net worth of $400 million ...”

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3 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Didn’t Kerk beat Parris last time they wrestled?

Yes.  Kerk also DNP where Parris still made the national team.  Also this...

 

42 minutes ago, Mphillips said:

Isn't Kerk out for WTT?

 

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12 hours ago, Rooving said:

I think people are assuming Gable is leaving for the money....no...Gable is leaving for the entertainment industry. He is incredibly marketable and his goals down the road are to start appearing in movies...and given his charisma it isn't that farfetched to think he wont achieve that.

I think you are significantly overestimating his potential as an actor.  The only two sustained successes from WWE in Hollywood are Duane Johnson and John Cena, with the latter only playing a minor, supporting role in non WWE produced films.  WWE is much more about appearance than actual athletic ability.  Hollywood is as well, with the added factor that knowing how to act is important. In other words, his incredible athleticism and olympic gold medal don't put him at an advantage over somebody 3 inches taller and roided up. If he goes to WWE, its likely that his only significant acting role will be whatever character he settles upon for WWE.

If he wants to be an actor, he's probably best off not going to WWE at all, getting an agent, moving to Hollywood, and taking acting classes.  Most directors aren't going to want to cast somebody from WWE anyway  because they become completely typecast in their wrestling persona.  Unless it's a star like Duane Johnson who drives ticket sales, there's no advantage to casting a B-list WWE character over any other actor with an agent or a retired football player.  

And yeah, it's no fun to be the pragmatist on the forum.  It's much easier to say that "Gable will succeed at whatever he wants to do." "WWE is great  entertainment and an awesome launching pad for being a movie star." And that "he's going to be the next Duane Johnson."  You get more  "likes" by being ultra  positive.  But reality is harsh. And he is the best HWT wrestler in the world right now, at a younger age than anyone I can think of (maybe Makhov?).  Giving that up to dance around on steroids and cry into a microphone for the dream of being like Brock Lesnar would be sad for the sport.  

Edited by Billyhoyle

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Good point, I think that's his approach but it doesn't change my views. 
First I am not sold on him as a big star.  To me his charisma is real but may be/probably is so in a limited way (big impact in wrestling, but difficult to carry over, particularly to being a movie star, where star power is common).  He's not Shaq, who was incredibly famous and a household name from basketball, plus is an extrovert with an obvious terrific natural sense of humor.  And Shaq didn't quit the important thing he was great at, at 21.
Second, I renew my point that there's no higher point to being a star in fake competition or in being able to make some money in the movies. Even if he has some success in movies he won't be a significant actor who leaves even the slightest lasting mark on his craft.  As a wrestler he could be analogous to Paul Newman or Daniel Day Lewis or Christian Bale -- a giant, like Smith or Burroughs; as an actor he's probably looking at a best case scenario somewhere between John Cena and The Rock -- nowhere near, for instance, Sylvester Stallone. Compared to the chance to be on the Mount Rushmore of the oldest, purest and noblest competitive sport in the world, that's an opportunity lost in favor of comparatively frivolous pursuits. 
He has free will and should do what pleases him, including capitalizing on his incredible recent achievement in other pursuits if that's what he wants.  And if he goes elsewhere Tokyo can never be taken away from him.  But he'll never never even remotely replicate the seriousness of purpose or the quality of his labor in entertainment.  
Gable is not like Burrough, DT, Dake, or Snyder. He doesn't eat and sleep wrestling and clearly doesn't care about being on the (real) wrestling Mt. Rushmore. He accomplished the pinnacle of the sport and is ready to chase his real dream of fame and fortune. No one here wants him to leave the sport, but we can't force our dreams on him like a bad parent. He may end up a bust in the WWE/MMA/acting world, but he won't ever be more than a niche celebrity making a decent living if he stays put, and I don't think his heart would be in it to spend another 10 years trying to become the Paul Newman of a sport most of our country doesn't care about.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

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2 hours ago, headshuck said:


“Fast & Furious' Dwayne Johnson is the world's highest paid actor – and 'The Rock' spends his US$400 million net worth on real estate, and Pagani and Rolls-Royce supercars.Apr 30, 2021”

“Sylvester Stallone net worth 2020 and salary: Sylvester Stallone is an American actor, screenwriter, producer and director who has a net worth of $400 million ...”

Compare head shots of Dwayne Johnson and Gable Steveson.  And then think about what Sylvester Stallone did to get Rocky made, and then watch his acting in Copland.  They have things that translate to movie success that Steveson does not, just as they could never dream of wrestling like him.

I totally agree with the other commenter that he doesn't live for wresting, which is basically what I said at the end of my post when I said he should follow his heart.  It's just sad for wrestling to see him go at 21.  Jim Brown, who like The Rock, was also way better looking than Gable Steveson (sorry, can't see Gable pulling off the romance shots with Raquel Welch), didn't retire till 29 (and my guess is that 2020s Gable could make as much as 1950s/1960s Brown did, in a less dangerous sport, from ages 21-29).

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I don't know why everyone is focusing on acting so much, to me what Gable wants to be is famous.  I don't think he particularly cares too strongly on a particular medium, going into the WWE will open that up for him. 

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6 minutes ago, Gantry said:

I don't know why everyone is focusing on acting so much, to me what Gable wants to be is famous.  I don't think he particularly cares too strongly on a particular medium, going into the WWE will open that up for him. 

We're focusing on acting because someone a handful of posts ago scolded us for focusing on WWE and told us movies was the way Gable wanted to be famous.  Now you are telling us to do the opposite.  It is very very difficult for us to accurately hit the target on telling this kid how to live his life when you people keep moving the goalposts.  We're all googling actors' pictures and salaries and resumes and now at your whim we have to try to divine how Triple H will rig Gable's matches. 

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3 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Gable and TMS were at Summer Slam last night. Honestly Gable looked pretty small and a bit awkward walking around the ring. Not sure if WWE fans will take to him... 

As I said above, he seems like an introvert not an extrovert, one of the multiple reasons why his success in entertainment is a very open question.  He worked hard at what he wanted to get the gold, so maybe he can overcome the obstacles to entertainment success, but he's not working with a world class skill set as he is in wrestling.  

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3 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

I think you are significantly overestimating his potential as an actor.  The only two sustained successes from WWE in Hollywood are Duane Johnson and John Cena, with the latter only playing a minor, supporting role in non WWE produced films.  WWE is much more about appearance than actual athletic ability.  Hollywood is as well, with the added factor that knowing how to act is important. In other words, his incredible athleticism and olympic gold medal don't put him at an advantage over somebody 3 inches taller and roided up. If he goes to WWE, its likely that his only significant acting role will be whatever character he settles upon for WWE.

If he wants to be an actor, he's probably best off not going to WWE at all, getting an agent, moving to Hollywood, and taking acting classes.  Most directors aren't going to want to cast somebody from WWE anyway  because they become completely typecast in their wrestling persona.  Unless it's a star like Duane Johnson who drives ticket sales, there's no advantage to casting a B-list WWE character over any other actor with an agent or a retired football player.  

And yeah, it's no fun to be the pragmatist on the forum.  It's much easier to say that "Gable will succeed at whatever he wants to do." "WWE is great  entertainment and an awesome launching pad for being a movie star." And that "he's going to be the next Duane Johnson."  You get more  "likes" by being ultra  positive.  But reality is harsh. And he is the best HWT wrestler in the world right now, at a younger age than anyone I can think of (maybe Makhov?).  Giving that up to dance around on steroids and cry into a microphone for the dream of being like Brock Lesnar would be sad for the sport.  

Don't get me wrong, I'm sad to see him leave wrestling. I'd rather him stay for a little while longer at least. I've been following Gable ever he came to Apple Valley. 

I guess what I'm saying is that he the charisma to potentially make it happen plus just had a storybook "ending" to his wrestling career which is a huge springboard. It's an absolute longshot he will succeed as an actor if he ever even makes it, and that is way down the road after WWE + MMA, but he has a better shot than probably any college wrestler in a long time.

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10 minutes ago, drag it said:

We're focusing on acting because someone a handful of posts ago scolded us for focusing on WWE and told us movies was the way Gable wanted to be famous.  Now you are telling us to do the opposite.  It is very very difficult for us to accurately hit the target on telling this kid how to live his life when you people keep moving the goalposts.  We're all googling actors' pictures and salaries and resumes and now at your whim we have to try to divine how Triple H will rig Gable's matches. 

You call that scolding you? My god you are thin skinned if that's the case. Gable himself said that he wants to follow in The Rock's footsteps.

Regardless, the WWE IS THE ENTERTAINMENT industry as well. 

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1 minute ago, Rooving said:

You call that scolding you? My god you are thin skinned if that's the case. Gable himself said that he wants to follow in The Rock's footsteps.

Regardless, the WWE IS THE ENTERTAINMENT industry as well. 

I didn't think you were scolding (I actually thought your point was a good one).  I was kidding and attempting to make fun of myself (inartfully, apparently).  

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This is disappointing but let’s not forget that Dan Gable won the 1972 Olympics and didn’t seriously compete again. And the US rep in 1973 was Lloyd Keaser, who won gold. Keaser was runner up to Gable in the 1972 trials losing 4-0 to Gable. Cael Sanderson didn’t intend to seriously compete after his 2004 Oly gold. 
 

I know that both stayed in wrestling as coaches (coaches) but this was hardly consolation at the time to those who wanted to see them compete  

pS I know, I know Sanderson and Gable both did compete again but at the time they retired they were serious about moving on. 

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