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Gable Steveson not going to Worlds?

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8 hours ago, bnwtwg said:

That's apples to grapefruits, but if you are asking me gun to my head then the answer is hell no. Jennifer Aniston didn't give blood sweat and tears to give birth to our kid, push through every physically and mentally breaking moment that is required of the first few months alone of raising a kid with a g0ddammed smile on her face, and sacrifice literally everything in between. And my wife is Friesian so double win.

But you know who else didn't do everything and put someone else's best interests first? The University of Minnesota. Maybe Eggum and Co. did. But absolutely not UM.

Okay, analogy that may make better sense.  Maybe.

You are on a road trip.  Your parents are driving the vehicle.  Taking turns as often as needed.

Around 15/16/17 you and them take many visits to try and figure out who is going to take over driving when you turn 18 for the following 4-5 years.

After lengthy discussions and a very detailed selection making process, it is decided that you're going to switch over to the Minnesota car at the next rest stop.  Eggum is to be your driver.  Let's say this car is a smooth riding, reliable Chevy Impala.

After three years, there is nothing wrong with the car.  It hasn't broken down, it gets great mileage, there aren't any other passengers who are toxic, nothing.  Eggum has made sure the Impala you are in has stopped everywhere it needs to, and then some.

Anyways after three years of a four to five year agreement after which you just had a phenomenal performance that turned MANY heads, a Camaro pulls up next to you.  The guy at the wheel tells you that you can hop in.

You just jump ship, despite nothing being wrong with your previous ride?  Despite your commitment to a 4-5 year plan by both you and the Eggum?

 

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2 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Okay, analogy that may make better sense.  Maybe.

You are on a road trip.  Your parents are driving the vehicle.  Taking turns as often as needed.

Around 15/16/17 you and them take many visits to try and figure out who is going to take over driving when you turn 18 for the following 4-5 years.

After lengthy discussions and a very detailed selection making process, it is decided that you're going to switch over to the Minnesota car at the next rest stop.  Eggum is to be your driver.  Let's say this car is a smooth riding, reliable Chevy Impala.

After three years, there is nothing wrong with the car.  It hasn't broken down, it gets great mileage, there aren't any other passengers who are toxic, nothing.  Eggum has made sure the Impala you are in has stopped everywhere it needs to, and then some.

Anyways after three years of a four to five year agreement after which you just had a phenomenal performance that turned MANY heads, a Camaro pulls up next to you.  The guy at the wheel tells you that you can hop in.

You just jump ship, despite nothing being wrong with your previous ride?  Despite your commitment to a 4-5 year plan by both you and the Eggum?

 

That's your better analogy? Holy ****.

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19 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Now, if you sign a contract stating you will be working through a certain time frame or project at work, then you should honor that contract.  Unless something toxic or extraordinary comes up that prevents you from doing that job to the best of your ability, then you should honor that.

Scholarships are year to year contracts, not 4-5 year contracts.  If he hadn't sign his NLI for the 2021-2022 season yet, he's not contractually committed to anything.

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1 minute ago, Crotalus said:

That's your better analogy? Holy ****.

Yeah.  Appears I am grasping.

I personally would love to see him succeed wherever he goes.

The same reason I will root for PD3 when he does actually transition to MMA.

I want to see more wrestlers succeed at the highest levels after crossing over.

I compare it to my Michigan/B1G fanboy-isms.  I root for Michigan State, Michigan, Central Michigan then the B1G schools over other conferences.  That is all sports (add Westetrn/Eastern for other sports).  I even root for MAC over the other mid-majors as well.

Also, the fact of the matter is that we are deep.  Even at 125.  Losing Gable isn't a death knell.

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Just now, Lurker said:

Scholarships are year to year contracts, not 4-5 year contracts.  If he hadn't sign his NLI for the 2021-2022 season yet, he's not contractually committed to anything.

Regardless of ink to paper, he did give his word yes?  Honor and all.

Also I was ignorant as to the NLI on a yearly thing.  Appreciate knowing that now.

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1 minute ago, nhs67 said:

Regardless of ink to paper, he did give his word yes?  Honor and all.

Also I was ignorant as to the NLI on a yearly thing.  Appreciate knowing that now.

I would argue that in this scenario, you choose a school because in the recruitment of you you are aligned with what you go to college for, prepare for life after college and reach your long term goals.  In this instance, they brought another NCAA championships and an Olympic gold medal to the Minnesota Wrestling program.  I would say both ends have satisfied their commitment, and if its time to move on....that's a part of life.  Which is what college is intended to prepare you for.

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Regardless of ink to paper, he did give his word yes?  Honor and all.
Also I was ignorant as to the NLI on a yearly thing.  Appreciate knowing that now.

You seem to know a lot about the arrangement. Are you a Minnesota insider?

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1 minute ago, headshuck said:


You seem to know a lot about the arrangement. Are you a Minnesota insider?

Meh.  Stay on point.  I am trying to focus here, for once. 

We can close this thread down if you want to mess around and find out.

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5 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Okay, analogy that may make better sense.  Maybe.

You are on a road trip.  Your parents are driving the vehicle.  Taking turns as often as needed.

Around 15/16/17 you and them take many visits to try and figure out who is going to take over driving when you turn 18 for the following 4-5 years.

After lengthy discussions and a very detailed selection making process, it is decided that you're going to switch over to the Minnesota car at the next rest stop.  Eggum is to be your driver.  Let's say this car is a smooth riding, reliable Chevy Impala.

After three years, there is nothing wrong with the car.  It hasn't broken down, it gets great mileage, there aren't any other passengers who are toxic, nothing.  Eggum has made sure the Impala you are in has stopped everywhere it needs to, and then some.

Anyways after three years of a four to five year agreement after which you just had a phenomenal performance that turned MANY heads, a Camaro pulls up next to you.  The guy at the wheel tells you that you can hop in.

You just jump ship, despite nothing being wrong with your previous ride?  Despite your commitment to a 4-5 year plan by both you and the Eggum?

 

Of course I jumped ship. Why? Because it was a Chevy Impala and everyone keeps talking about the Ford Focus.

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1 hour ago, bnwtwg said:

Of course I jumped ship. Why? Because it was a Chevy Impala and everyone keeps talking about the Ford Focus.

HAHAHAHA

I lost my $HlT in the middle of a conference call.

Not cool.

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9 hours ago, Lurker said:

Scholarships are year to year contracts, not 4-5 year contracts.  If he hadn't sign his NLI for the 2021-2022 season yet, he's not contractually committed to anything.

Not true anymore. That was the case up until a few years ago. For division one I know forsure that if you sign a scholarship for "80%" you get your 80% for the time you're there if rules are not broken. It can not be changed based on poor performance. 

\

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11 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Meh.  Stay on point.  I am trying to focus here, for once. 

We can close this thread down if you want to mess around and find out.

you are not even in the correct forum much less thread, for Focus you should be here:

http://board.themat.com/index.php?/topic/27764-aj-ferraris-weekly-routine/

 

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13 hours ago, GrecoGold said:

Not true anymore. That was the case up until a few years ago. For division one I know forsure that if you sign a scholarship for "80%" you get your 80% for the time you're there if rules are not broken. It can not be changed based on poor performance. 

\

Ahhhhh. Thank you. 

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19 hours ago, GrecoGold said:

Not true anymore. That was the case up until a few years ago. For division one I know forsure that if you sign a scholarship for "80%" you get your 80% for the time you're there if rules are not broken. It can not be changed based on poor performance. 

\

My understanding of that is it is highly dishonorable for a coach to reduce scholarship based on performance alone, but it is within the rules.  I think it is very, very rare for that to happen. Often, performance problems are a direct result of rule breaking, so........

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3 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

What a hilarious concept in D1 athletics.

Having honor?

In any case it was already explained to be otherwise.  They owe 80% of 5 years to him.  Should he not also owe the same?

Edited by nhs67

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37 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Having honor?

In any case it was already explained to be otherwise.  They owe 80% of 5 years to him.  Should he not also owe the same?

 

The deal is if you stay we will credit you with 80% of the price of tuition that has a very low marginal cost. If you do not stay you will not get that credit. It is not like they are cutting a check for 4 x .8 x tuition.

Invoking honor in a purely financial contract is usually done by the more powerful party to the less powerful party as a means to induce them to not exercise their contractual rights.

We see this all the time in situations like when Nick Saban calls out players who transfer rather than sit on the bench. He will say things like the QB needs to learn to deal with adversity, fight for his, job, be there in case the starter gets hurt, or honor his commitment, etc. Meanwhile, he conveniently ignores his own history of recruiting players at MSU and LSU before leaving when it was convenient or financially rewarding to do so. In wrestling we see coaches leave, kids get recruited over, and worst of all, scbools shutter programs when convenient. When they do this they expose the reality that these are purely financial, contract based arrangements. The only rule that governs is what they are allowed to do, not some concept of what they should do.

In spite of recent improvements in transfer rules and NIL rules (all due to the threat of lawsuits, legislation and the revocation of anti-trust safe harbors) the deck is still stacked in the school's favor. If an athlete chooses to exercise their contractual rights they have that right. Honor is not a concept that applies. Unless it is in the contract.

Edited by Wrestleknownothing

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The NCAA allow for scholarships to be year to year with no guarantee beyond that. It also allows schools to offer multi year scholarships as of ten or so years ago. In 2015, the Power 5 conferences (B1G, Big 12, ACC, SEC, Pac-12) agreed that scholarship amounts will not be reduced due to athletic performance. Here is an article that sums it up fairly well, though I cannot vouch for how current it is or what may have changed in the meantime: https://informedathlete.com/the-facts-about-guaranteed-multi-year-ncaa-di-scholarships/

I do not know how the no-reductions rule is applied at associate member schools of the Pac-12 or Big 12 like Northern Iowa or Bakersfield.

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3 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

 

The deal is if you stay we will credit you with 80% of the price of tuition that has a very low marginal cost. If you do not stay you will not get that credit. It is not like they are cutting a check for 4 x .8 x tuition.

Invoking honor in a purely financial contract is usually done by the more powerful party to the less powerful party as a means to induce them to not exercise their contractual rights.

We see this all the time in situations like when Nick Saban calls out players who transfer rather than sit on the bench. He will say things like the QB needs to learn to deal with adversity, fight for his, job, be there in case the starter gets hurt, or honor his commitment, etc. Meanwhile, he conveniently ignores his own history of recruiting players at MSU and LSU before leaving when it was convenient or financially rewarding to do so. In wrestling we see coaches leave, kids get recruited over, and worst of all, scbools shutter programs when convenient. When they do this they expose the reality that these are purely financial, contract based arrangements. The only rule that governs is what they are allowed to do, not some concept of what they should do.

In spite of recent improvements in transfer rules and NIL rules (all due to the threat of lawsuits, legislation and the revocation of anti-trust safe harbors) the deck is still stacked in the school's favor. If an athlete chooses to exercise their contractual rights they have that right. Honor is not a concept that applies. Unless it is in the contract.

This. The people that are okay with coaches regularly screwing over athletes then have the balls to criticize the athletes for making rational decisions.. is galling 

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