Which programs need a coaching change?

[TexRef 109]

This topic pops up every few years and it seems time again. A few years ago Ben Askren was very vocal about a few coaches that had been at their respective college/university for a long time without decent results. With that in mind, lets look at the coaches that have been at their current college/university for at least 10 years. Here are a couple to look at.....

Joel Greenlee-Ohio University-20 years on the job. 

Greg Williams-Utah Valley-15 years on the job and chased off Luke Lofthouse because he was not hand holding the snowflakes. 

GO! 

Edited August 18, 2021 by TexRef
.

[Voice_of_the_Quakers 127]

and chased off Luke Lofthouse because he was not hand holding the snowflakes. 

So?

[Antitroll2828 987]

Minnesota 

[Wrestle81 82]

Bad topic.... G6

 

[somedude202 6]

The 10 years at the job qualifier makes this a lot tougher, especially because a lot of the usual suspects (Oregon State, Indiana, Michigan State) actually did the dang thing and replaced their long time coaches. I'm struggling to think of a P5 school that realistically has high expectations with a long time lame duck coach, which I think is great for the sport.

[dman115 513]

Iowa

I joke...I joke...

[jbai3_12 47]

I have a lot of respect for Mark Manning at Nebraska, but I would like to see Snyder take the reigns.  Pennsylvania recruiting pipeline, lots of energy, maybe Nebraska could crack that top 3!. 

[Idaho 1,322]

10 hours ago, TexRef said:

This topic pops up every few years and it seems time again. A few years ago Ben Askren was very vocal about a few coaches that had been at their respective college/university for a long time without decent results. With that in mind, lets look at the coaches that have been at their current college/university for at least 10 years. Here are a couple to look at.....

Joel Greenlee-Ohio University-20 years on the job. 

Greg Williams-Utah Valley-15 years on the job and chased off Luke Lofthouse because he was not hand holding the snowflakes. 

GO! 

I don't know about the snowflake thing....but UVU has had some great recruiting and rosters over the years, but it seems  they can never put it all together.  

[TexRef 109]

10 hours ago, Idaho said:

I don't know about the snowflake thing....but UVU has had some great recruiting and rosters over the years, but it seems  they can never put it all together.  

EXACTLY! They have had some studs but it seems that they either fizzle out early or they are getting injured. I have also heard that the communication from the staff to the athletes is not very good. 

[Husker_Du 838]

what studs did they have? when did they ever have a good recruiting class?

[Idaho 1,322]

43 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

what studs did they have? when did they ever have a good recruiting class?

In 2016-17 - Findlay (national high school champ), Taylor Lamont,  Grant Lamont. Lloren, Wilkinson, Bastian, lofthouse  and Tanner Orndorff were all either freshman or RS freshman....that's a pretty decent group right there - the next year Tate Orndorff and Romero were added (transfer from BSU- as well as others). That's a pretty good list of talent there for that program. IMO just that group right there could have done a lot more. Is it PSU or Iowa...no. But that's a solid group right there. 

[Antitroll2828 987]

12 hours ago, Idaho said:

I don't know about the snowflake thing....but UVU has had some great recruiting and rosters over the years, but it seems  they can never put it all together.  

 

1 hour ago, TexRef said:

EXACTLY! They have had some studs but it seems that they either fizzle out early or they are getting injured. I have also heard that the communication from the staff to the athletes is not very good. 

I mean they just had 2 ncaa semi finalists at ncaas and I believe both guys are coming back and they just added Jason Chamberlin to the coaching staff, I’d say there trajectory is pointing up right now , not to mention they deal with more athletes going on religious missions than any other school 

[TexRef 109]

7 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

 

I mean they just had 2 ncaa semi finalists at ncaas and I believe both guys are coming back and they just added Jason Chamberlin to the coaching staff, I’d say there trajectory is pointing up right now , not to mention they deal with more athletes going on religious missions than any other school 

I hope they are going up, not only for D1 wrestling but for the western states. 

[Idaho 1,322]

Just now, Antitroll2828 said:

 

I mean they just had 2 ncaa semi finalists at ncaas and I believe both guys are coming back and they just added Jason Chamberlin to the coaching staff, I’d say there trajectory is pointing up right now , not to mention they deal with more athletes going on religious missions than any other school 

Yep that is true...they brought in Hunter Cruz and Hayden Drury this year- 2 starters from FSU and a few good recruits like Lillie. Chamberlain is a great addition - going back home for him. What you speak of is true...and just when they get to this point with a good roster - some good returners they have run into some problems in the past. The year Taylor Lamont got hurt was a train wreck. They had a good lineup coming in that year and ended up with like 4-5 back ups starting and shuffling guys around and different weights. Grant Lamont was clear up at 157- it was disappointing. I hope this is the year where they can break through with a great finish.... however in the past this has been their potential and it has not ended up where they wanted. @go_rines12 is a pretty big UVU fan - he should chime in.  One thing I will say about them - they have the BEST school president of any program - she is at every match - front row - cheering wrestling. 

[jackwebster 291]

5 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

 

I mean they just had 2 ncaa semi finalists at ncaas and I believe both guys are coming back and they just added Jason Chamberlin to the coaching staff, I’d say there trajectory is pointing up right now , not to mention they deal with more athletes going on religious missions than any other school 

TexRef said: EXACTLY! They have had some studs but it seems that they either fizzle out early or they are getting injured. I have also heard that the communication from the staff to the athletes is not very good. 

 

I can see this, but better-than-before doesn't mean-better-than-other-schools-right-now. That's some gobbledygookery, but hear me out: UvU might have landed more "highly credentialed" kids, but the list of events that can make you "highly credentialed" keeps growing, e.g. SR Nats doesn't mean what it used to mean. 

Plus, as mentioned above, they had some oustanding finishes this year. I was particularly impressed by Lamont who came out of a sneaky good Big 12 125.

Edited August 19, 2021 by jackwebster

[grappler6 152]

Minnesota 

The staff that just coached an Olympic Champion that’s still in college? Also the same staff that has two of the top 5 overall recruits committed in the class of 2023? A young nucleus on the current team as well? I think MN is in a good spot.


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[Antitroll2828 987]

12 minutes ago, jackwebster said:

TexRef said: EXACTLY! They have had some studs but it seems that they either fizzle out early or they are getting injured. I have also heard that the communication from the staff to the athletes is not very good. 

 

I can see this, but better-than-before doesn't mean-better-than-other-schools-right-now. That's some gobbledygookery, but hear me out: UvU might have landed more "highly credentialed" kids, but the list of events that can make you "highly credentialed" keeps growing, e.g. SR Nats doesn't mean what it used to mean. 

Plus, as mentioned above, they had some oustanding finishes this year. I was particularly impressed by Lamont who came out of a sneaky good Big 12 125.

I agree with your take on all the new “National “tournaments and how senior nationals doesn’t mean much, my senior year my bracket was close to 50 kids with the number 1 and number 3 overall at the weight, now you rarely see the top guys attend ..

before last year I would’ve agreed that maybe it’s time for a change but Utah valley finally had guys break through last year...Penn State, Iowa, Oklahoma State, Iowa state, Ohio state,NC State, Pitt, Arizona State, Rutgers, Michigan and Utah valley were the teams with mutiple semi finalists , if your team is on a list with those tops schools than I think you have to say they are headed in the right direction , hopefully they can keep that momentum and keep building

[Antitroll2828 987]

4 minutes ago, grappler6 said:

The staff that just coached an Olympic Champion that’s still in college? Also the same staff that has two of the top 5 overall recruits committed in the class of 2023? A young nucleus on the current team as well? I think MN is in a good spot.


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Gable has been completely ignoring Eggum in the corner for years lol and as I said before gable would ve been ncaa champ wherever he went...Minnesota lost a dual to Rider less than 2 years ago, and if it weren’t for a completely wild and unexpected run through the backside for McKee, this would have been there poorest ncaa showing in a long time..they have been a 2nd tier big ten team since J Rob was forced out and that doesn’t seem like it’s going to change anytime soon ...outside of Lee and McKee, who else is part of this young nucleus? Dryden left...sparks has some potential but last time I saw him he was getting pinned by joe lee (who seemed to get pinned by everyone else he wrestled last year) so who else is there? Jake Allar? Is Owen Webster coming back for what seems like an 8th year? 

[Idaho 1,322]

31 minutes ago, jackwebster said:

TexRef said: EXACTLY! They have had some studs but it seems that they either fizzle out early or they are getting injured. I have also heard that the communication from the staff to the athletes is not very good. 

 

I can see this, but better-than-before doesn't mean-better-than-other-schools-right-now. That's some gobbledygookery, but hear me out: UvU might have landed more "highly credentialed" kids, but the list of events that can make you "highly credentialed" keeps growing, e.g. SR Nats doesn't mean what it used to mean. 

Plus, as mentioned above, they had some oustanding finishes this year. I was particularly impressed by Lamont who came out of a sneaky good Big 12 125.

Findlay beat Carr, Moran and Red his junior year before an injury. He was not an overrated HS kid who won a weak senior nationals.  Injuries have played a big part at UVU ...Findlay, Lamont, Romero...

[TexRef 109]

27 minutes ago, grappler6 said:

The staff that just coached an Olympic Champion that’s still in college? Also the same staff that has two of the top 5 overall recruits committed in the class of 2023? A young nucleus on the current team as well? I think MN is in a good spot.


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Yeah I wasn't thinking that Minny needs to make a change. Plus didn't they just ink a great incoming class? I don't remember the details but it seems like I read somewhere that they have been getting some top kids. Am I wrong there? I think they are in good hands and going in the right direction. Plus has Eggum been there for 10 years?

[jackwebster 291]

44 minutes ago, Idaho said:

Findlay beat Carr, Moran and Red his junior year before an injury. He was not an overrated HS kid who won a weak senior nationals.  Injuries have played a big part at UVU ...Findlay, Lamont, Romero...

Yeah, I'm not disagreeing w/ you. I'm just pointing out that there are simply more kids coming out of hs who have high quality wins bc they have more opportunities to do so. 

Re injury: I think this is something we all know. The best programs are able to replace a highly-credentialed kid with another when they suffer an injury or fizzle out, e.g. Manville would have been a cornerstone recruit for a place like UVU; at PSU, he was another guy with lots of credentials. There's no room for error. 

Edit: my prose is tortured today. Sorry.

Edited August 19, 2021 by jackwebster

[Antitroll2828 987]

1 hour ago, TexRef said:

Yeah I wasn't thinking that Minny needs to make a change. Plus didn't they just ink a great incoming class? I don't remember the details but it seems like I read somewhere that they have been getting some top kids. Am I wrong there? I think they are in good hands and going in the right direction. Plus has Eggum been there for 10 years?

They were consistently one of the top teams in the country year in and year out, since Jrob left they haven’t come close to being a top 10 team, outside of maybe 3-4 guys there entire team has underachieved since Eggum took over...Outside of gable ( a generational talent), who has really improved and thrived under Eggum the last 7-8 years?

[boconnell 1,623]

25 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

They were consistently one of the top teams in the country year in and year out, since Jrob left they haven’t come close to being a top 10 team, outside of maybe 3-4 guys there entire team has underachieved since Eggum took over...Outside of gable ( a generational talent), who has really improved and thrived under Eggum the last 7-8 years?

https://gophersports.com/sports/2018/5/21/sports-m-wrestl-spec-rel-minn-m-wrestl-ncaa-champ-history-html.aspx

They have 3 top 10 finishes in 5 tournaments under Eggum, so not sure where you get the idea they haven't come close to being top 10.  

They were 7th this year.  They haven't topped that since 2014 (Jrob's 3rd to last team).  

[Antitroll2828 987]

Just now, boconnell said:

https://gophersports.com/sports/2018/5/21/sports-m-wrestl-spec-rel-minn-m-wrestl-ncaa-champ-history-html.aspx

They have 3 top 10 finishes in 5 tournaments under Eggum, so not sure where you get the idea they haven't come close to being top 10.  

They were 7th this year.  They haven't topped that since 2014 (Jrob's 3rd to last team).  

I wasn’t referring to ncaa finishes, I meant like top 10 team during the season , Rutgers finished top 10 a few years ago with only 2 AAs (both NC) ...askren talks about all the time how the ASU squad he coached at was terrible like 5-13 during the season but finished 6th at ncaas because of 3 AAs 

[boconnell 1,623]

16 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

I wasn’t referring to ncaa finishes, I meant like top 10 team during the season , Rutgers finished top 10 a few years ago with only 2 AAs (both NC) ...askren talks about all the time how the ASU squad he coached at was terrible like 5-13 during the season but finished 6th at ncaas because of 3 AAs 

Sounds like that ASU team wasn't terrible.  I'd even venture to call them top 6.  It also sounds like the coaches of the teams that were beating them should have been focused on getting 3 AAs.

Edited August 19, 2021 by boconnell