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irani

My idea for rule change

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I have an idea that would like to get some feedback on.

First, a couple of opinions:

  • I like the awarding a wrestler points when his opponent steps out of the mat, or is pushed out
  • I think the points for stepping out are great to determine the winner in cases where the matches are very close
  • I hate it when a wrestler has a take down, or any other true wrestling score, and loses because his opponent pushed him out of the mat 3 times

My proposed solution

  • Reduce step out/push out points to .5!

I think this will entice wrestlers to score more with actually wrestling and rely less on push outs 

Let's take one match as an example, the 86 final 

  • Yaz was ahead 2-0 with push outs
  • DT scored a take down 2-2
  • Yaz scored another push out 3-2
  • Yaz tried to keep his lead, DT scored a great take down with a few seconds left

I think that was a fair outcome, but imagine if DT had not managed to score the miracle take down at the end

Now let's look at what would happen under my proposed changed

  • Yaz is ahead 1-0 with two push outs
  • DT scores a take down, is ahead 2-1
  • Yaz realizes that he HAS to score a take down to win
  • We would have seen fireworks worthy of a match between those two great champions

What do you think?

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I see where you are coming from but I don't think it's necessary to change and over complicate the rules (which are the best wrestling rules I have ever seen) with half points because 1 country has gone overboard with the underhook to stepout style.

 

If it becomes really bad to the point where they are winning multiple golds at the senior level world championships with that style then I would actually change it. But at the end of the day none of the olympic champs (Uguev, Otoguro, Sidakov, Taylor, Sadulaev or Steveson) wrestle like that style. 

 

Edited by Shiraz123

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50 minutes ago, CoachWrestling said:

I think the 1 to 2 ratio for push out versus takedown is good. 1 to 4 ratio is too much. 

I agree. Would a three point takedown be too much? Still outbalances the push out but not as much, and also changes the takedown:par terre emphasis.

That might be the American in me that says TDs should be worth more, though.

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1 hour ago, jchapman said:

How about no points for pushouts, just keep track of them.  Then if the match ends in a tie, use pushouts to determine the winner.  If tied on pushouts, last score/biggest scoring move wins.

No thanks, the rule by and large is incredibly effective.  It's hard to even watch all the old matches because of how often they went out of bounds, especially late when someone had the lead.  If it's only a tiebreaker, we're back to 20+ OOBs a match

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Thanks for all your great comments

To clarify:

I agree the rule change was great, and I agree that there should be a point for a push out

The question I am posing is the relative value of pushout to take down, and other wrestling moves.  Should two push outs really equal one take down, and three push outs be higher thana take down?

I live the idea of suggestion of making take downs three points.

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59 minutes ago, Gantry said:

No thanks, the rule by and large is incredibly effective.  It's hard to even watch all the old matches because of how often they went out of bounds, especially late when someone had the lead.  If it's only a tiebreaker, we're back to 20+ OOBs a match

The call passivity or whatever the term is in freestyle for what we call stalling in folkstyle

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1 hour ago, boconnell said:

just make TDs worth 3.  Maybe increase the TF to 12.  While you're at it, bring back the point for holding someone on their back.  

A wrestler at Junior Worlds this morning was down 5-0 with about 40 seconds, hit a lat drop, and held it the whole time without really adjusting too much to flatten her out. I think she thought she got that extra point still and won on criteria, but she still lost 5-4. I did miss the extra point right there; it's a lot more fun than someone hitting a plain old 4 then rolling over into par terre without looking for the pin.

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4 minutes ago, moodybooty said:

A wrestler at Junior Worlds this morning was down 5-0 with about 40 seconds, hit a lat drop, and held it the whole time without really adjusting too much to flatten her out. I think she thought she got that extra point still and won on criteria, but she still lost 5-4. I did miss the extra point right there; it's a lot more fun than someone hitting a plain old 4 then rolling over into par terre without looking for the pin.

Would a female wrestler at Junior World's have been wrestling competitively when the extra point was still awarded? What year was that removed? 

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Just now, wrestlingphish said:

Would a female wrestler at Junior World's have been wrestling competitively when the extra point was still awarded? What year was that removed? 

Damn. Good point. My age is showing a lil bit, haha. Not too sure about the year it got took out!

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1 hour ago, 2td3nf said:

Please, don’t ever let the wrestlers walk off the mat again  without being penalized.  The step out rule is working incredibly well, imo.

We agree with that 100%.

I am just suggesting the take downs should have a relative higher value than push outs.

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1 hour ago, jchapman said:

The call passivity or whatever the term is in freestyle for what we call stalling in folkstyle

IMO bringing passivity/stalling (the most hated rule by a landslide in folk) into free causes way more problems than it solves.  Pushouts do their job and is a good rule, I'd prefer to keep it.

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29 minutes ago, Gantry said:

Pushouts do their job and is a good rule, I'd prefer to keep it.

I am in no way suggesting that we get rid of points of push outs.  we agree that we should keep push out points.

So, let's not argue about keeping or not keeping push out points.

I am suggesting that take downs should be worth more than twice push outs.

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3 minutes ago, irani said:

I am in no way suggesting that we get rid of points of push outs.  we agree that we should keep push out points.

So, let's not argue about keeping or not keeping push out points.

I am suggesting that take downs should be worth more than twice push outs.

To play Devil's Advocate- I suspect that having them be that smaller point-wise would make wrestlers less inclined to worry about staying on the mat. I would agree that the relative difficulty of getting a td is more than twice a step out but the rule was put in to keep people on the mat.

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2 minutes ago, LJB said:

it takes 3 pushouts to rise above one takedown... that feels right to me...

You summarized the key question.

Are 3 pushouts above one take down?  I think not, you disagree.  I am cool with that.

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I actually think that is a damn's good idea, it differentiates between intentional walk outs, vs nudges

I think that’s a little harder to see plus what about when someone has a leg up in a single and walks them out?


I agree 2 step outs should not equal a takedown and technically it does not. With criteria, a takedown is still above 2 step outs. I think needing 4 step outs (or 5 with the original half point suggestion) to overcome a takedown is a bit much. But yes, that’s just a matter of opinion. A 3 point takedown could work. I think you’d have to do 3 points for exposure too and then 5 or 6 for feet to back. Obviously tech falls need to increase too. I don’t think it’s worth it for basically a trial and error. Plus, we’d all have to break the habit of yelling TWOOOOOO!!! Lol


If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask@ShakaAloha because he knows more than me.

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