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Amos vs Ferrari

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It is tough for me.

I was entirely on board with Amos as #1 after high school and believe that had they met Amos would have won.  It would have been close, but I think that would have been the case.

Neither have given me any reason to think they will lose a match since then. 

I do think Amos has likely increased more in the skill department, as he doesn't rely on strength, speed, or overall athleticism to mystify his opponents. 

I also think that Focus has put his focus on being the best athlete in D1 wrestling.  What I mean by that is that the strength and speed advantage he had after high school has likely increased.  As we saw with Amine, once you get that much stronger or faster than an opponent it doesn't matter how good you are(*cough Oly-bronze cough*).

So these things said, I believe Amos is the better wrestler and Focus the better athlete.  I believe the athleticism Focus brings to the table today will give him the edge here.

In freestyle it is going to be razor close.  They both lost to Honis this spring.  Amos 6-6 in the Last Chance semis, and Focus 11-10 on the consi-side of the bracket.  Amos was in his match because he was a better wrestler than Honis (my opinion).  Honis clearly had the speed and strength edge.  The same is said for Focus against Honis.  He was stronger and faster, not by an extreme margin, but it allowed him to not lose badly.

Transitive doesn't tend to hold, however when it comes to athleticism, I think it will here.  Folkstyle, Focus will win this comfortably.  Freestyle is a tossup.  Greco, Amos comfortably.

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AJ has an borderline unstoppable TD even if you know it's coming (the double) and he makes a living off that.  Plus it's so hard to score on Ferrari, nobody has been able to do that with any sort of regularity.  Until that happens, especially in folk where he's stingy giving up that escape, give me Ferrari over Amos. 

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3 hours ago, SignificantACCBias said:

AJ has very little offense compared to Braxton. He won his title by finding a TD every match, living on the edge boundary and not getting taken down.

So last year, I think Braxton would have won handily. This year who knows, I'm sure AJ shows up with a bigger arsenal.

That's assuming Amos could score a TD on Ferrari.  I'm not sure he can.  Ferrari wrestled almost every top 197 in the country because the Big 12 was actually excellent at that weight (tied Big 10 for most AAs, had another guy in the top 12 and another in the top 16).  And on the season he gave up 1 TD to Adams.  Amine never sniffed a TD in their match.  On the season against the AAs he went 7-0 and allowed zero TDs (outscoring them 40-20 while allowing only escapes).  

Maybe Amos takes him down and keeps the mat wrestling neutral, but the idea Amos beats him handily last year is absurd.  You guys just want him to lose so badly that you let it color your judgement.

Edited by boconnell

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Now THIS is a good matchup conversation. 

I don't like Ferrari's antics, so I have immediate bias.

I like Amos, seemingly, with how he carries himself.  His credentials just improved with the Gold and Bronze at Jr. Worlds.  

I think this match will be hyper-competitive.  I could see it going both ways, based on the previous poster's commentary. 

If I were to call my shot, in their first/next matchup, I see it going like:

* Ferrari with stingy defense, and Amos gets frustrated

* Amos takes bad shot, Ferrari spins around for the 2.

* 2nd period, Amos take down and escapes, making it 2-1.  Period ends with a lot of hand fighting

* 3rd period.  Ferarri takes down and escapes, making it 3-1.  Amos is wearing out Ferrari with constant upper and lower body attacks.  Ferrari keeps defending, but Amos locks up a body lock and utilizes his Greco to take him to his back.  Amos gets 2pts for the TD, making it 3-3, and another 4pts for the nearfall, making it 7-3 Amos.  Ferrari, with pure willpower, bellies out, and the match ends with Amos the victor.  

The differentiator became Amos' Greco skills, coming in handy, in a Folk match.  

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5 hours ago, teach said:

When do they meet up?  At that weight it is possible it doesn't happen at the NCAAs.

OK State is in Southern Scuffle but Wisconsin isn't.  Wisconsin is in Midlands but OK ST isn't.  Neither are at Cliff Keen Invitational.  Looks like the last time the teams were part of the same event outside of NCAAS was the Lindenwood Open in 2019.  Would be a shame to have to wait until March for it.  

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1 hour ago, Housebuye said:

I think it will come down to folkstyle specific stuff. Edge wrestling, stalls, top wrestling, etc. 

In freestyle I’d pick Braxton all day, but in folk it is going to be a fight. 

You see I am thinking the opposite.

Folkstyle I give Focus the edge.  His style fits folkstyle damn near perfect.  He could pull a 79 KG Dake and not allow any offensive points at all next season (if he stays at 197).  He is just going to be so much faster and stronger than anybody there, with honed-in skills.

In freestyle I think it is RCH close and every result points to that. 

In greco, aside for raw power, I don't think Focus has much of anything for Amos.  He may keep it under a techfall, but he likely won't score any offensive points.

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2 hours ago, nhs67 said:

You see I am thinking the opposite.

Folkstyle I give Focus the edge.  His style fits folkstyle damn near perfect.  He could pull a 79 KG Dake and not allow any offensive points at all next season (if he stays at 197).  He is just going to be so much faster and stronger than anybody there, with honed-in skills.

In freestyle I think it is RCH close and every result points to that. 

In greco, aside for raw power, I don't think Focus has much of anything for Amos.  He may keep it under a techfall, but he likely won't score any offensive points.

I feel like we are partially agreeing? Ferrari in folk will be much more competitive than free. I think Ferrari’s defense is much better for folk. 
  
 

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12 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

I feel like we are partially agreeing? Ferrari in folk will be much more competitive than free. I think Ferrari’s defense is much better for folk. 
  
 

Snap!  We are.  You think Amos is better, where I think they are about even.

Missed that one.  Apologies.

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On 8/25/2021 at 6:48 AM, nhs67 said:

Snap!  We are.  You think Amos is better, where I think they are about even.

Missed that one.  Apologies.

I have Ford Focus in folkstyle, and Amos in freestyle/Greco.

The folkstyle match would be close, whereas I could see AJ getting teched in free and definitely Greco.

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Far from a perfect comparison... but Amos isn't beating Amine in a freestyle match right now, while Ferrari was able to beat Amine in folk. 

Strange as it is considering, well, everything about him, Ferrari's match intelligence is one of his strengths.  He knows where he's good and he knows where he's not--I see that being the difference in a tight match.  

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1 hour ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

Strange as it is considering, well, everything about him, Ferrari's match intelligence is one of his strengths.  He knows where he's good and he knows where he's not--I see that being the difference in a tight match.  

Agree completely, Ferrari almost always gets his opponents to wrestle "his" match and he tends to stick to said game plan to great success.

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1 hour ago, Gantry said:

Agree completely, Ferrari almost always gets his opponents to wrestle "his" match and he tends to stick to said game plan to great success.

Some of it will depend on how much they let him stall on top.  He was awesome in neutral and near impossible to score on, but he shortened matches by strategically dropping half a dozen times to the ankle for 4.5 seconds each time.  If he can't do that, then lots of his matches get more interesting and more competitive.

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3 hours ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

Far from a perfect comparison... but Amos isn't beating Amine in a freestyle match right now, while Ferrari was able to beat Amine in folk. 

Strange as it is considering, well, everything about him, Ferrari's match intelligence is one of his strengths.  He knows where he's good and he knows where he's not--I see that being the difference in a tight match.  

Why do you think Amine is a certainty to beat Amos in free?  Just because he won Olympic bronze?  If they wrestled in freestyle at 97kg, it would be a close match considering Amine would be giving up a ton of weight to Amos.  

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2 hours ago, boconnell said:

Some of it will depend on how much they let him stall on top.  He was awesome in neutral and near impossible to score on, but he shortened matches by strategically dropping half a dozen times to the ankle for 4.5 seconds each time.  If he can't do that, then lots of his matches get more interesting and more competitive.

Completely agree, but the fact of the matter is that virtually nobody takes him down and he controls almost every match in neutral even if low scoring.   So while they would be tighter matches, you still have to figure out how to win the TD battle against him. 

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