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Amos vs Ferrari

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2 hours ago, Gantry said:

Completely agree, but the fact of the matter is that virtually nobody takes him down and he controls almost every match in neutral even if low scoring.   So while they would be tighter matches, you still have to figure out how to win the TD battle against him. 

I agree.  I just think his riding allowed him to dominate close matches.  He'd come out aggressive and get his TD and it was all but over at that point.  If the riding gets called differently, then it's more time on the feet and more time for something to go wrong.  Or maybe he just stays offensive and piles up points.  Either way the combination of being great on bottom and great at riding makes him a really tough out in folkstyle.  

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I just watched his jr gold medal match and he is a really complete wrestler. Watching him I see our future. You never know just how good the competition is at Jr Worlds (sometimes it’s Yazdani or Zare but other times it’s guys who never make the National team) but the Turk was like a young Akgul in stature. Amos except for one slip up where he attempted a throw and landed on his back, dominated. He scored with multiple leg attacks and a high arc throw. The way he went upper body reminded me of Schultz VS Banach. 

Amos is definitely going 197 in college?

 

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17 hours ago, ShakaAloha said:

Why do you think Amine is a certainty to beat Amos in free?  Just because he won Olympic bronze?  If they wrestled in freestyle at 97kg, it would be a close match considering Amine would be giving up a ton of weight to Amos.  

I added the caveat that it's not a perfect comparison, precisely because there is a weight difference.  It's more that Amine was close to Ferrari's weight when they wrestled, and Ferrari beat him.  And were Amos and Amine close to the same weight for a freestyle match, I think Amine wins that comfortably.  And not just because he won Olympic bronze; Myles Amine has been a consistent competitor on the senior level for two years now, ranked in the top 10, with multiple wins over world medalists.  

On the other hand, Amos got 10-0'd by Kollin Moore in April.  Moore is on the same level as Amine IMO (for their respective weight classes).  There's no shame in that, and I like Amos.  I think he will eventually be better than Amine... just not yet.  

Is O'Toole suddenly better than Bekzod, because he also won Juniors?  

Edited by steamboat_charlie v2

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Bekzod, while he did earn a Bronze, definitely had the bracket of a lifetime to get there.

O'Toole absolutely beat him.  Less than a year ago Logan Massa beat Bekzod.  I absolutely believe O'Toole could beat him.

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Bekzod, while he did earn a Bronze, definitely had the bracket of a lifetime to get there.
O'Toole absolutely beat him.  Less than a year ago Logan Massa beat Bekzod.  I absolutely believe O'Toole could beat him.

Sorry, no, Bekzod would kill O’Toole.


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3 hours ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

I added the caveat that it's not a perfect comparison, precisely because there is a weight difference.  It's more that Amine was close to Ferrari's weight when they wrestled, and Ferrari beat him.  And were Amos and Amine close to the same weight for a freestyle match, I think Amine wins that comfortably.  And not just because he won Olympic bronze; Myles Amine has been a consistent competitor on the senior level for two years now, ranked in the top 10, with multiple wins over world medalists.  

On the other hand, Amos got 10-0'd by Kollin Moore in April.  Moore is on the same level as Amine IMO (for their respective weight classes).  There's no shame in that, and I like Amos.  I think he will eventually be better than Amine... just not yet.  

Is O'Toole suddenly better than Bekzod, because he also won Juniors?  

The Amine vs. Amos situation is different than Bekzod-O'Toole because of the weight difference.  If Amine and Amos were to wrestle, it would have to be at 97kg in freestyle or 197lbs. in folkstyle (not sure Amos can make 197lbs.) because Amos can't make 86kg.  Under this scenario, I think Amos takes it because of the size difference, similar to how AJ horsed Amine at NCAA's.

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2 hours ago, Le duke said:


Sorry, no, Bekzod would kill O’Toole.


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I think Bekzod beats O'Toole in freestyle right now, but not for much longer.  If it's folk, I have O'Toole.

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14 minutes ago, ShakaAloha said:

I think Bekzod beats O'Toole in freestyle right now, but not for much longer.  If it's folk, I have O'Toole.

I think Bekzod wins as well, and comfortably, right now.  I was just saying that O'Toole absolutely has the... tools... to beat Bekzod.  If Massa can, O'Toole can.  I think Massa beats O'Toole now, too, just O'Toole has more... tools... in his... tool... box.

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15 minutes ago, ShakaAloha said:

The Amine vs. Amos situation is different than Bekzod-O'Toole because of the weight difference.  If Amine and Amos were to wrestle, it would have to be at 97kg in freestyle or 197lbs. in folkstyle (not sure Amos can make 197lbs.) because Amos can't make 86kg.  Under this scenario, I think Amos takes it because of the size difference, similar to how AJ horsed Amine at NCAA's.

Isn't Amos going 197 this year in NCAA competition?  That has always seemed to be the plan with Hilger having 2 more years to compete.  Has that changed?  Anyone with inside knowledge of Wisconsin's plans want to weigh in? 

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10 minutes ago, lu1979 said:

Isn't Amos going 197 this year in NCAA competition?  That has always seemed to be the plan with Hilger having 2 more years to compete.  Has that changed?  Anyone with inside knowledge of Wisconsin's plans want to weigh in? 

It hasn't changed.  Amos beat TD Dudley at 205lbs at WRTC's WUG4 at 205lbs 7-2.

https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Wrestling/Features/2021/February/24/WUG-4-Recap

*Edit: All I mean is that it isn't like he's been 225+ cutting to 97kg(~213lbs).

Edited by nhs67

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I think Bekzod wins as well, and comfortably, right now.  I was just saying that O'Toole absolutely has the... tools... to beat Bekzod.  If Massa can, O'Toole can.  I think Massa beats O'Toole now, too, just O'Toole has more... tools... in his... tool... box.

The Bekzod at the Olympics is not the one coming off an injury that lost to Logan Massa.

Bekzod scored the second most points on Sidakov he’s ever given up in senior competition. The most being 9, in a loss to Tsabalov.


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13 minutes ago, Le duke said:


The Bekzod at the Olympics is not the one coming off an injury that lost to Logan Massa.

Bekzod scored the second most points on Sidakov he’s ever given up in senior competition. The most being 9, in a loss to Tsabalov.


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You are going to have to accept that someone may have the opinion that O'Toole might be able to beat Bekzod in a wrestling match.

It is an opinion of a hypothetical match.  You don't have to agree with it.

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1 hour ago, lu1979 said:

Isn't Amos going 197 this year in NCAA competition?  That has always seemed to be the plan with Hilger having 2 more years to compete.  Has that changed?  Anyone with inside knowledge of Wisconsin's plans want to weigh in? 

197 is still the plan for Amos.

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Amos should ask his teammates to hold up small mirrors so that Ferrari will constantly be tempted to gaze upon his own countenance and, like Narcissus, be distracted by a ridiculous reflection.

At some point, he will then undoubtedly be open for a takedown and awakening.

Same strategy might work against Suriano  . . .  and a few other self-absorbed guys.

Narcissus (mythology) - Wikipedia

Edited by dmm53

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5 hours ago, nhs67 said:

It hasn't changed.  Amos beat TD Dudley at 205lbs at WRTC's WUG4 at 205lbs 7-2.

https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Wrestling/Features/2021/February/24/WUG-4-Recap

*Edit: All I mean is that it isn't like he's been 225+ cutting to 97kg(~213lbs).

If Amos can make 197 lbs. for the college season, then why is he wrestling 97 kg (213.4 lbs.) for junior worlds instead of 92 kg (202.4 kg)?

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1 minute ago, ShakaAloha said:

If Amos can make 197 lbs. for the college season, then why is he wrestling 97 kg (213.4 lbs.) for junior worlds instead of 92 kg (202.4 kg)?

A few reasons.

#1 is why?  Why go down to 202 when he didn't have to in order to win?

Second is that he competed on the senior level at 97.  He didn't have the choice to try to make the Olympic team at 92.  He had obvious aspirations to compete at the Olympics, as he double entered there for Greco and Freestyle.  Everyone on this board knows that the Olympic weights are the tougher and more prestigious weights.  That holds true down at Juniors too.

The final reason, and this is the one that actually matters most, is that both he and his coaching staff have maintained that he is going 197 for the next two years, at least.  Hillger is very much in the planning for Wisconsin for the next two years.

I don't think 92 would have been an issue for him, especially since he wrestled Dudley at 205 at some random RTC card.  Dudley also competed at 97kg at OTT.

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1 minute ago, Le duke said:

I must say I have to wonder if Amos can beat Hilger.


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I think he can.  Especially if it is Freestyle or Greco.  Folkstyle may be a bit more even, but I believe right now Amos is the better wrestler regardless of style.

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I think he can.  Especially if it is Freestyle or Greco.  Folkstyle may be a bit more even, but I believe right now Amos is the better wrestler regardless of style.

Me too. I know last year was weird for a lot of people but I was unimpressed with Hillger.


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30 minutes ago, Le duke said:


Me too. I know last year was weird for a lot of people but I was unimpressed with Hillger.


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I am sure Hillger has improved since high school, but my favorite version of him to-date was when he was fresh at heavyweight his junior year.  He was so fast and fluid.  Once he packed on up in weight he slowed down a lot.

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1 hour ago, Le duke said:


Me too. I know last year was weird for a lot of people but I was unimpressed with Hillger.


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I think with Hilger it  may seem like he hasn't made great improvement since his freshman year but what has actually happened is that the weight class has improved so much it makes  him look bad by comparison.  I really believe that heavyweight is far better and deeper than it has ever been.  I think Hilger has improved it just doesn't show up against the likes of Gable, Parris. Cass, Schultz & Kerk..  

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19 minutes ago, lu1979 said:

I think with Hilger it  may seem like he hasn't made great improvement since his freshman year but what has actually happened is that the weight class has improved so much it makes  him look bad by comparison.  I really believe that heavyweight is far better and deeper than it has ever been.  I think Hilger has improved it just doesn't show up against the likes of Gable, Parris. Cass, Schultz & Kerk..  

Completely agree here. The six guys you named alone (Hilger included) have very high credentials on their own, and there's tons of talent behind those 6 as well. I know heavyweight is generally regarded as big slow and boring, but it's somehow become one of the more interesting weights as of late. Let's suppose Gable does leave (although rumor has it he's coming back), Parris is the front runner, but he's by no means a lock, and there's definitely wrestlers who make it an interesting match. If Gable does come back, it's still interesting to see who all ends up on the AA stand and who ends up in the finals.

 

Going back to the thread topic, I'd pick Ferrari over Amos in a folkstyle match at this point

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