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Jordan Burroughs

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In my opinion there are a lot of JB's out there playing other sports from a talent perspective, but there's a reason they're shooting balls in hoops and hitting their double legs with pads on from head to toe. Wrestling is the ultimate test for man and it doesn't get much better than the level JB is at right now.

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The most impressive thing to me is how JB has continued to up his game and adapt. He won with very few double legs. His transitions from FHL to scores with outside singles vs Taylor was a thing of beauty.

You have to think that guys like Tsargush brought in a guy like Kralin into the room, trying to drill double defense, watched the video from this weekend and crapped his pants, back to the drawing board!

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In my opinion there are a lot of JB's out there playing other sports from a talent perspective, but there's a reason they're shooting balls in hoops and hitting their double legs with pads on from head to toe. Wrestling is the ultimate test for man and it doesn't get much better than the level JB is at right now.

 

The reason is they are NOT 5'8" and couldn't SNIFF 163 lbs. I think you are oversimplifying JB's talents related to the sport he PARTICIPATES in. Obviously every sport has its best athletes at each position but you can only compare each to a certain point since the skill sets necessary to be the best at that position may vary CONSIDERABLY. JB is OBVIOUSLY a 1 of a kind for the sport and weight class he competes in. Comparing him to Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods or Barry Sanders is very difficult and inevitably flawed by the impossible to avoid bias that the person making the comparison inevitably has.

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In my opinion there are a lot of JB's out there playing other sports from a talent perspective, but there's a reason they're shooting balls in hoops and hitting their double legs with pads on from head to toe. Wrestling is the ultimate test for man and it doesn't get much better than the level JB is at right now.

 

The reason is they are NOT 5'8" and couldn't SNIFF 163 lbs. I think you are oversimplifying JB's talents related to the sport he PARTICIPATES in. Obviously every sport has its best athletes at each position but you can only compare each to a certain point since the skill sets necessary to be the best at that position may vary CONSIDERABLY. JB is OBVIOUSLY a 1 of a kind for the sport and weight class he competes in. Comparing him to Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods or Barry Sanders is very difficult and inevitably flawed by the impossible to avoid bias that the person making the comparison inevitably has.

 

Comparing a golfer to a wrestler is easy when you're deciding who is the best athlete.

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In my opinion there are a lot of JB's out there playing other sports from a talent perspective, but there's a reason they're shooting balls in hoops and hitting their double legs with pads on from head to toe. Wrestling is the ultimate test for man and it doesn't get much better than the level JB is at right now.

 

The reason is they are NOT 5'8" and couldn't SNIFF 163 lbs. I think you are oversimplifying JB's talents related to the sport he PARTICIPATES in. Obviously every sport has its best athletes at each position but you can only compare each to a certain point since the skill sets necessary to be the best at that position may vary CONSIDERABLY. JB is OBVIOUSLY a 1 of a kind for the sport and weight class he competes in. Comparing him to Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods or Barry Sanders is very difficult and inevitably flawed by the impossible to avoid bias that the person making the comparison inevitably has.

 

Comparing a golfer to a wrestler is easy when you're deciding who is the best athlete.

 

Not so easy when you are deciding who the more dominant participant within their own Sport (or game if you don't consider golf a sport) is.

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Im pretty sure if Burroughs wanted to he couldve played d1 running back. He has that type of athleticsm.

 

He was 135 pounds coming out of high school.

 

And probably 175 (walking around) when he graduated...so I doubt it without some serious weight gain.

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In my opinion there are a lot of JB's out there playing other sports from a talent perspective, but there's a reason they're shooting balls in hoops and hitting their double legs with pads on from head to toe. Wrestling is the ultimate test for man and it doesn't get much better than the level JB is at right now.

 

Dollars.

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Im pretty sure if Burroughs wanted to he couldve played d1 running back. He has that type of athleticsm.

 

 

Yeah, but how is his golf game?

 

Not at top program, too small, maybe at smaller school, also you have no idea how ridiculous skill position athletes are in college, and NFL skill position players are most athletic in the world. So I'm at ACC school playing pick bball game with some of football players, 3rd string RB is 5'9" 210 lbs, and he dunked with ease, literally you threw the ball anywhere around the rim he caught and dunked it. J. Burroughs is a great athlete by wrestling standards, but I don't know beyond that. The year John Wall was drafted he was the only one at the NBA combine that measured a 40" vertical, 39.5, if he was with the running backs that would have put him at 18th for the NFL combine. And that's just running backs, Tim Tebow measured a 39.5 vertical and he was daym near 250 lbs and the same height as wall to give you a idea how explosive football players are. Note more than 40 guys had verts of 40 or more at the NFL combine that year, 1 of them was a freaking line men.

 

Football players at college level and the NFL level are some freakish athletes, considerably more powerful than NBA players. I don't know of he is that kind of athlete, he's a great athlete no doubt, but is by no means special for college level football.

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Im pretty sure if Burroughs wanted to he couldve played d1 running back. He has that type of athleticsm.

 

 

Yeah, but how is his golf game?

 

Not at top program, too small, maybe at smaller school, also you have no idea how ridiculous skill position athletes are in college, and NFL skill position players are most athletic in the world. So I'm at ACC school playing pick bball game with some of football players, 3rd string RB is 5'9" 210 lbs, and he dunked with ease, literally you threw the ball anywhere around the rim he caught and dunked it. J. Burroughs is a great athlete by wrestling standards, but I don't know beyond that. The year John Wall was drafted he was the only one at the NBA combine that measured a 40" vertical, 39.5, if he was with the running backs that would have put him at 18th for the NFL combine. And that's just running backs, Tim Tebow measured a 39.5 vertical and he was daym near 250 lbs and the same height as wall to give you a idea how explosive football players are. Note more than 40 guys had verts of 40 or more at the NFL combine that year, 1 of them was a freaking line men.

 

Football players at college level and the NFL level are some freakish athletes, considerably more powerful than NBA players. I don't know of he is that kind of athlete, he's a great athlete no doubt, but is by no means special for college level football.

---

 

Acadia, I never used to think of FB players as the very best athletes, but you make a good case for it. I had no idea the vertical leaps of fb players was as good/better than BB guys.

 

Something I saw many years ago seemed to support what you say. There was a charity bb game between retired 49'ers and current squad during the Steve Young/Jerry Rice era. I was astonished at the athleticism of the players, including an offensive lineman, ~300 lbs (can't remember who - Paris or Wallace??), who had a nice soft inside shot. Young would toss up alley-oops, caught one handed by Jerry Rice, who would dunk it. Quite a show!

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Not at top program, too small, maybe at smaller school, also you have no idea how ridiculous skill position athletes are in college, and NFL skill position players are most athletic in the world. So I'm at ACC school playing pick bball game with some of football players, 3rd string RB is 5'9" 210 lbs, and he dunked with ease, literally you threw the ball anywhere around the rim he caught and dunked it. J. Burroughs is a great athlete by wrestling standards, but I don't know beyond that. The year John Wall was drafted he was the only one at the NBA combine that measured a 40" vertical, 39.5, if he was with the running backs that would have put him at 18th for the NFL combine. And that's just running backs, Tim Tebow measured a 39.5 vertical and he was daym near 250 lbs and the same height as wall to give you a idea how explosive football players are. Note more than 40 guys had verts of 40 or more at the NFL combine that year, 1 of them was a freaking line men.

 

Football players at college level and the NFL level are some freakish athletes, considerably more powerful than NBA players. I don't know of he is that kind of athlete, he's a great athlete no doubt, but is by no means special for college level football.

 

I agree that the best group of athletes in the world play American pro football, if you are comparing sport by sport.

 

That said, comparing a guy who is 180 tops against people considerably bigger and taller is unfair, especially since we don't know how JB measures up in NFL combine exercises. I would bet that he does very well, adjusted for size (e.g. you obviously can't compare how many times he benches 225 vs. 250-300 lb linebackers and linemen).

 

One thing I'll say in JB's defense is that total athleticism is difficult to measure through an NFL combine. We all know about the stories of people who do terribly at the combine and go on to become among the game's best. Even if we ignore the critically important mental aspect of what makes an athlete elite, two of the areas critical to athletic performance that the combine does a particularly poor job of identifying are motor control (those agility drills don't cut it) and what I call "work capacity" (i.e. the ability to exert near maximal effort for prolonged amounts of time -- really, a measure of "functional power" right past the anaerobic threshold, so about one wrestling period of all-out effort). For wrestling in particular, it's one thing to have power and speed, and it's another to have the motor control to optimize it sport specifically and last a tournament, let alone a single highly competitive match.

 

I think you'd be hard pressed to find too many JBs out there, even in the NFL, who can take their elite athleticism by NFL combine standards and turn it into elite wrestling performance by Olympic FS wrestling standards.

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Acadia, I never used to think of FB players as the very best athletes, but you make a good case for it. I had no idea the vertical leaps of fb players was as good/better than BB guys.

 

Something I saw many years ago seemed to support what you say. There was a charity bb game between retired 49'ers and current squad during the Steve Young/Jerry Rice era. I was astonished at the athleticism of the players, including an offensive lineman, ~300 lbs (can't remember who - Paris or Wallace??), who had a nice soft inside shot. Young would toss up alley-oops, caught one handed by Jerry Rice, who would dunk it. Quite a show!

 

Yeah, I used to think the same thing but having played pick up with the bball and fball team players I realized how freakish the fball players were, the bball players were great athletes too but it seemed that their height allowed them to excel and not be as athletic. The bball players coordination seemed a little better though. But in terms of sheer power and athleticism, defined in terms of strength, speed, jumping, running , it wasn't close, the football players were just a different sort of beast... and like you say it's not just the athletic ability it's the size at which they do it, is just absurd ... I mean you don't think of Tim Tebow by NFL standards as an ok athlete, but this is a 250lb who is slightly shorter than J. Wall , but jumps and probably has a 40 yard time in the same range, and doing it at 50lbs heavier and Wall was considered superb athlete by NBA standards. Think about how many WR's have world class speed. All around athletes I'd have to say combining attributes of

 

strength

speed

explosive power (jumping)

quickness

endurance

coordination

toughness

 

my order would be

 

NFL

 

Decathletes

 

NBA

 

Male/ Female Gymnast

 

NHL

 

Soccer

 

MMA (Including wrestlers)

 

MLB - John Kruk when admonished for being a professional athlete and yet smoking, "I ain't an athlete, lady, I'm a baseball player."

 

Ice Skating - I know you laugh but honestly what they do is actually pretty freaking tough, exceptional lower body strength

 

Tennis

 

Tri-Athletes

 

Cycling

 

Skiing

 

Table Tennis

 

Golf

 

Bowling

 

Curling

 

NASCAR

 

I know I put wrestling pretty low, but IMHO wrestling doesn't require a lot of athleticism (endurance, strength, toughness) seem to be the predominate factors for success at the low levels, but at elite level (college and beyond) coordination and explosive power come into play but doesn't meet the level of the athletes in the top sports.

 

 

Single toughest thing to do I would say ... hitting MLB fast ball.

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Not at top program, too small, maybe at smaller school, also you have no idea how ridiculous skill position athletes are in college, and NFL skill position players are most athletic in the world. So I'm at ACC school playing pick bball game with some of football players, 3rd string RB is 5'9" 210 lbs, and he dunked with ease, literally you threw the ball anywhere around the rim he caught and dunked it. J. Burroughs is a great athlete by wrestling standards, but I don't know beyond that. The year John Wall was drafted he was the only one at the NBA combine that measured a 40" vertical, 39.5, if he was with the running backs that would have put him at 18th for the NFL combine. And that's just running backs, Tim Tebow measured a 39.5 vertical and he was daym near 250 lbs and the same height as wall to give you a idea how explosive football players are. Note more than 40 guys had verts of 40 or more at the NFL combine that year, 1 of them was a freaking line men.

 

Football players at college level and the NFL level are some freakish athletes, considerably more powerful than NBA players. I don't know of he is that kind of athlete, he's a great athlete no doubt, but is by no means special for college level football.

 

I agree that the best group of athletes in the world play American pro football, if you are comparing sport by sport.

 

That said, comparing a guy who is 180 tops against people considerably bigger and taller is unfair, especially since we don't know how JB measures up in NFL combine exercises. I would bet that he does very well, adjusted for size (e.g. you obviously can't compare how many times he benches 225 vs. 250-300 lb linebackers and linemen).

 

One thing I'll say in JB's defense is that total athleticism is difficult to measure through an NFL combine. We all know about the stories of people who do terribly at the combine and go on to become among the game's best. Even if we ignore the critically important mental aspect of what makes an athlete elite, two of the areas critical to athletic performance that the combine does a particularly poor job of identifying are motor control (those agility drills don't cut it) and what I call "work capacity" (i.e. the ability to exert near maximal effort for prolonged amounts of time -- really, a measure of "functional power" right past the anaerobic threshold, so about one wrestling period of all-out effort). For wrestling in particular, it's one thing to have power and speed, and it's another to have the motor control to optimize it sport specifically and last a tournament, let alone a single highly competitive match.

 

I think you'd be hard pressed to find too many JBs out there, even in the NFL, who can take their elite athleticism by NFL combine standards and turn it into elite wrestling performance by Olympic FS wrestling standards.

 

I have to agree being as I've actually have wrestled against top wrestlers and played games against college level fball players. I can assure you that JB's athletic isn't remotely uncommon by college standards, I'm not paying attention to JB's size and weight, I'm saying in terms of their speed and quickness, I remember even high school playing flag football with our starting running back, the guy I believe wind up playing Div III football, his change of direction speed was nothing like anything I had ever seen on a mat, and this guy wind up being a Div III guy at some ppdunk school. I'm telling from experience yes JB is a great athlete by wrestling standards, I highly doubt he's anywhere near the ability of college level football player at the skill positions. I could be wrong??? Cause you are right I don't know what his combine numbers are, but I just don't see it. It could be the case, I mean look at guys like Stephen Neal etc ... who did make the NFL. And incidently is 1 of 4 people to do what JB did , win a WC in the same year they were in college, the other 2 being John Smith and Uetake. So yeah it's possible he could be that athletic, but I wouldn't bet on it. But anyway, based on the original comment, size wise no he wouldn't have been playing D1 ball, IMHO, especially not coming out of HS.

 

also, note that the combine compares against your position, not other guys, JB would have likely been a receiver or rb, and even those guys are putting up 225 like 20 times. Everyone is required to lift 225 x amount of times. Tavon Austin will be a first round pick, he's 174lbs and 5'9" , he still put up 225lb bench 14x's and that's lower number for WR's, but think about how strong he must be to do that. Imagine if he were on a wrestling mat? I'm pretty sure I could find plenty of athletes in the NFL that would be elite wrestlers, there size and speed advantage that it's just unfair. You can teach technique but athleticism you can not.

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acadia, you are seriously underestimating JB's power and strength. He may not be an elite NLF combine performer, but he can hang. I too knew several football players, D1, some even on the juice, and I too know how incredible they are athletically, which is why I agreed that as a group, no sport rivals football players in terms of athleticism as measured by NFL combine standards.

 

Forget benching 225 for reps; look at this video of JB (around 175 lbs) doing full snatch, clean and jerks with 225 for reps like he's flipping burgers:

(start at 1:09). He does do one-arm pullups with 50-lb DBs strapped on and rips phone books like they're newspapers (I can't find the videos for those). One of my college room mates was a D1 linebacker (went on to play in the CFL) and I sometimes lifted with the football team off-season. I can tell you that adjusted for his small size, from what I've seen, JB would hang in the NFL combine.

 

Then there's the point about being able to deploy all that athleticism in highly complex wrestling moves that require as much motor control and timing as any move in football and the ability to go a very hard 7 without tiring. I'm sure there are really gifted athletes in the NFL, but I highly doubt there's all these NFL locker rooms full of JBs.

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For some reason I can't quote posts anymore, but this is in response to the above posts from wrestlingnerd:

 

"Forget benching 225 for reps; look at this video of JB (around 175 lbs) doing full snatch, clean and jerks with 225 for reps like he's flipping burgers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=en ... 3cMWI&NR=1 (start at 1:09). He does do one-arm pullups with 50-lb DBs strapped on"

 

Jordan Burroughs is a phenomenal athlete, but I think you are underestimating the number of people in the general population that can do the things he does in that video (with the exception of the wrestling of course). What makes Burroughs amazing is that he can incorporate his physical skills into a wrestling match with impeccable timing, but if you break down what he does physically in that training video, it's nothing you can't find at any college in the U.S. I've known high school kids that can clean and jerk 225. It's not common, but it happens. At the college level and in the NFL, strength like that is the standard. So if you're saying he's a competitive athlete, then I agree. But if you're saying he has uncommon strength when compared to athletes at the NFL level, even when adjusted for size, that's just not true. The NFL is filled with many absolute beasts. Guys that would be terrors on the wrestling mat if they had devoted themselves to wrestling since age 5.

 

And also, I highly doubt Burroughs was doing one arm pullups of any sort, let alone with extra weight. A true one arm pullup (not the crap where you grab your own wrist but are holding the bar with one hand) is extremely uncommon among elite athletes. Usually only very lightweight guys can do it. Here is a very impressive example of a guy doing some.

 

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My guess it that the posters who say NFL players are superior athletes compared to wrestlers are correct. But I have a few points.

 

Do we have any NFL-combine stats for elite wrestlers. My guess is that we do not. But I would think that the top wrestlers could bench 225 a bunch of times. How many times can Tony Nelson bench 225? Does anybody know? Less sure about their foot-speed and vertical leaps, which seem pretty irrelevant to wrestling.

 

One comparison we do have is with wrestlers in the upper weights (mostly 197 and heavyweight). We have Andrew Capellatano (sp?) who was a good, not great, D1 football prospect. We assumed that he'd be a great wrestler and off-the-charts athletically among wrestlers. It turns out that neither is true.

 

Second, from watching wrestling, it seems that heavyweights are by far the least athletic wrestlers. Yet the the very best heavyweights have been athletic enough to play in the NFL, some, like Carlton Haselrig, without have ever played football. Of course, these guys are linemen. Then we have a guy like Jimmy Lawson, who was good, not great, low-level D1 football player. As a wrestler, he is also good, but not great. But is he a superior athlete compared to other D1 wrestlers? It seems not. There are also a bunch of NFL linemen who wrestled in high school. Most were good, some probably great-- but that's high school.

 

Thus, I think if someone put in the effort, it might be possible to compare NFL linemen to college heavyweights in terms of athleticism. There is at least some overlap as some guys do both sports. My guess is that the very best heavyweights would come out OK, not ahead, but not that far behind.

 

My third point is that pro athletes in the NBA, NFL, and even MLB are just bigger. Very few MLB players are less than 200 pounds these days. Most would be heavyweights or 184 pounders at the least.

 

All that said, I wonder if you could take a half-dozen SEC linebackers and linemen, how long would it take them to train at wrestling before they could beat Dom Bradley or Tony Nelson?

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