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Lunaticfringe

Vaccination retirement

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15 hours ago, Sstern said:

I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you but going political the 4th post in has to be a record.

The problem I have with this perspective is that somehow "health & medicine = politics"? I'm discussing civic duty and social responsibility, and the concept of making it important to keep your family, friends, coworkers and neighbors safe as best you can. Even if it means the responsibility of wearing the somewhat uncomfortable mask or getting the FDA approved-as-safe vaccine.

I'm middle of the road when it comes to politics, I dislike both parties depending on the topic.

Picking a side and bickering between left/right, blue/red, elephants/donkeys as if being on one side or the other has some intrinsic value, or that one side or the other has all the 'right' answers is patently dumb.

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On 8/26/2021 at 1:57 PM, lu_alum said:

Bad assumption.  Not sure about the vax rate for the wrestling travel party.

"Based on information from athletes’ history forms, 606 of the 709 American Olympians or alternates who responded – or 85% – are vaccinated, USOPC spokesman Jon Mason told USA TODAY Sports on Monday."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2021/07/26/2021-olympics-there-price-pay-usas-unvaccinated-athletes/8089764002/

All US Olympians were not forced to vaccinate. I assure you of that. 

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On 8/26/2021 at 1:52 PM, Lunaticfringe said:

It’s been reported locally in Minnesota that the Vikings have the lowest vaccine rate in The NFL and 3 players have said they will retire if the are told they have to vaccinate to play. Have any wrestlers said this because it’s probably coming? I assume all olympians were forced to vaccinate

Edited by BigTimeFan

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20 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

That speculation is false. I was not.

Can't read your mind, can only read what you wrote.

Guess we could say the vaccine is not as safe as flying to the moon. No one has died flying to the moon, correct?

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1 minute ago, ionel said:

Can't read your mind, can only read what you wrote.

Guess we could say the vaccine is not as safe as flying to the moon. No one has died flying to the moon, correct?

That's exactly why I clarified it for you. (In the future, feel free to message me for clarification on any of my posts if you like - I will happily respond.)

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11 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

That's exactly why I clarified it for you. (In the future, feel free to message me for clarification on any of my posts if you like - I will happily respond.)

Ok, well then what do you mean by "safe?" No ill affects or not gonna die from it?  My father ended up in the ER from the vacine, clearly ill affect but yeah it was close but he didn't die.

I'm all for the vaccine but its a global issue we have to get a high percentage of the entire world immune to stop the mutations.  

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28 minutes ago, ionel said:

Ok, well then what do you mean by "safe?" No ill affects or not gonna die from it?  My father ended up in the ER from the vacine, clearly ill affect but yeah it was close but he didn't die.

I'm all for the vaccine but its a global issue we have to get a high percentage of the entire world immune to stop the mutations.  

Good points.

"Safe" = Reasonably sure that the vast majority of those that take it will have no ill effects. For example, Aspirin has been used since around 1900, and is currently in most people's medicine cabinets and on the shelves in countless drug stores, grocery stores, gas stations, etc. Few regard it as a risky drug. That being said, if someone is pregnant - aspirin can be dangerous and very risky. If they are on blood thinner, it can also be risky and very bad. There are other situations where aspirin is a risky drug. Yet - aspirin is considered safe nearly everywhere (as long as it is used within the prescribed guidelines.) Can taking Aspirin kill you? Yes. Yet it is actually safe (counter-intuitive as that is.) 

"Globally stopping mutations" - Could not possibly agree more with you. I don't have the answers on how to get the rest of the world up to speed on vaccinations, that's a tall task. But I'd like to think the U.S. is the world leader that other countries follow, and it 'feels' like if we could get up to the 90% vaccination rate that a country like Iceland has achieved, that we'd not only put ourselves in a great position but we'd also be a great example for other countries to (hopefully) follow. We can only control what we can control - which makes it even more important that we make every effort to do just that.

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11 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

The problem I have with this perspective is that somehow "health & medicine = politics"? I'm discussing civic duty and social responsibility, and the concept of making it important to keep your family, friends, coworkers and neighbors safe as best you can. Even if it means the responsibility of wearing the somewhat uncomfortable mask or getting the FDA approved-as-safe vaccine.

I'm middle of the road when it comes to politics, I dislike both parties depending on the topic.

Picking a side and bickering between left/right, blue/red, elephants/donkeys as if being on one side or the other has some intrinsic value, or that one side or the other has all the 'right' answers is patently dumb.

I am probably very close to your point of view on politics and the two sides.  However, when it comes to civic duty, we may be a little apart on what that means...I did my civic duty, so why should I still have to wear a mask??  Because someone else choses to not do their "civic duty"??  Two things in regards to that...one being I support them NOT doing their "civic duty" in regards to the vaccine...two, it is now on them if they get sick, and God forbid, die.

Why as a society do we cater to the lowest denominator and smallest of percentage of the population??  Not saying we exclude anyone, but the vast vast majority shouldn't have to "suffer" because of the very very small minority.  And why is that a bad thing to think?  I feel we have created the opportunity for ALL of our population in regards to this virus, it is then up to the people to chose their path so to speak.  Let them chose.  And I am not going to listen to the old rhetoric of "you can pass it on to others" b.s. as we now have multiple vaccines, thus that old rhetoric doesn't hold true any longer.

And as for overwhelming the health care system...where are all the temporary hospitals we had set up in the beginning of this?  Where are the repurposed war ships?  Where is the national guard?  If things are so bad in the hospital's now, as the MSM portrays, why haven't we reinstated those temporary facilities???  I'll wait for answers on that....(not asking you GWN).

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39 minutes ago, dman115 said:

I am probably very close to your point of view on politics and the two sides.  However, when it comes to civic duty, we may be a little apart on what that means...I did my civic duty, so why should I still have to wear a mask??  Because someone else choses to not do their "civic duty"??  Two things in regards to that...one being I support them NOT doing their "civic duty" in regards to the vaccine...two, it is now on them if they get sick, and God forbid, die.

Why as a society do we cater to the lowest denominator and smallest of percentage of the population??  Not saying we exclude anyone, but the vast vast majority shouldn't have to "suffer" because of the very very small minority.  And why is that a bad thing to think?  I feel we have created the opportunity for ALL of our population in regards to this virus, it is then up to the people to chose their path so to speak.  Let them chose.  And I am not going to listen to the old rhetoric of "you can pass it on to others" b.s. as we now have multiple vaccines, thus that old rhetoric doesn't hold true any longer.

And as for overwhelming the health care system...where are all the temporary hospitals we had set up in the beginning of this?  Where are the repurposed war ships?  Where is the national guard?  If things are so bad in the hospital's now, as the MSM portrays, why haven't we reinstated those temporary facilities???  I'll wait for answers on that....(not asking you GWN).

If greater than 50% of adults have received the vaccine (and much higher % of the most vulnerable) then COVID hospitalization should be down at least 50% compared to a year ago.

Edited by vegetable lasagna

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4 hours ago, vegetable lasagna said:

If greater than 50% of adults have received the vaccine (and much higher % of the most vulnerable) then COVID hospitalization should be down at least 50% compared to a year ago.

You are assuming a 1 to 1 correlation between vaccination and rate of hospitalization, but there are  lot more variables involved...

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3 hours ago, red blades said:

You are assuming a 1 to 1 correlation between vaccination and rate of hospitalization, but there are  lot more variables involved...

99% of hospitalizations are unvaccinated. If 50% of those people were vaccinated, then hospitalizations would be down 50%. Is that better?

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9 hours ago, dman115 said:

I am probably very close to your point of view on politics and the two sides.  However, when it comes to civic duty, we may be a little apart on what that means...I did my civic duty, so why should I still have to wear a mask??  Because someone else choses to not do their "civic duty"??  Two things in regards to that...one being I support them NOT doing their "civic duty" in regards to the vaccine...two, it is now on them if they get sick, and God forbid, die.

Why as a society do we cater to the lowest denominator and smallest of percentage of the population??  Not saying we exclude anyone, but the vast vast majority shouldn't have to "suffer" because of the very very small minority.  And why is that a bad thing to think?  I feel we have created the opportunity for ALL of our population in regards to this virus, it is then up to the people to chose their path so to speak.  Let them chose.  And I am not going to listen to the old rhetoric of "you can pass it on to others" b.s. as we now have multiple vaccines, thus that old rhetoric doesn't hold true any longer.

And as for overwhelming the health care system...where are all the temporary hospitals we had set up in the beginning of this?  Where are the repurposed war ships?  Where is the national guard?  If things are so bad in the hospital's now, as the MSM portrays, why haven't we reinstated those temporary facilities???  I'll wait for answers on that....(not asking you GWN).

I actually agree with you on most all these points. I have no problem with the unvaccinated getting sick or dying by their choice - I feel no need to protect those that choose to remain unprotected. I would even add that the unvaccinated should be personally financially responsible for any Covid treatment they get when they get sick. My medical insurance premiums shouldn't go up because of their irresponsibility. (Of course, the exception is those that have legitimately been advised by a competent doctor to not get the vaccine due to fragile health, etc.) 

But there are (3) bigger picture points:

(1) The virus will continue to mutate as long as it spreads in large numbers, and we'll continue to get more variants. Eventually, the spike portion will mutate - and then the vaccines we have can become ineffective - since they all depend on identifying the spike. Then we have to start over making new vaccines for the new strain. The more the spread continues in large numbers, the sooner this will happen. Not all new strains will necessarily be as easily spread or as deadly. They could be less problematic, or they could be much worse (think Ebola.)

(2) If we get nearly everybody vaccinated, the spread essentially stops because there are no more hosts to be infected. When it is no longer spreading, it is no longer mutating. 

(3) Because of the potential future danger that exists for everyone, the collective goal for us should be to eradicate the virus. Vaccinations are the key to that goal. This is what logic tells us. The focus should be to put Covid behind us with vaccinations just as we've done with vaccinations for smallpox, measles, and polio.

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1 hour ago, Fletcher said:

99% of hospitalizations are unvaccinated. If 50% of those people were vaccinated, then hospitalizations would be down 50%. Is that better?

Very different from what VL wrote - but yes, much better.

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On 8/26/2021 at 9:33 PM, GreatWhiteNorth said:

The vaccine is as safe as aspirin and it'll help keep this global pandemic from becoming even worse than it already is.

People freaked out about the 12 US Military that died in Kabul today (understandably, and god rest their souls.) Yet - today - 13 people died from COVID - just in Minnesota. It's shameful that we don't do our best to prevent these deaths.

To try our best - vaccination is a how we get there.

To not try our best is shameful.

F U and your comment about the soldiers.

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2 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

I actually agree with you on most all these points. I have no problem with the unvaccinated getting sick or dying by their choice - I feel no need to protect those that choose to remain unprotected. I would even add that the unvaccinated should be personally financially responsible for any Covid treatment they get when they get sick. My medical insurance premiums shouldn't go up because of their irresponsibility. (Of course, the exception is those that have legitimately been advised by a competent doctor to not get the vaccine due to fragile health, etc.) 

But there are (3) bigger picture points:

(1) The virus will continue to mutate as long as it spreads in large numbers, and we'll continue to get more variants. Eventually, the spike portion will mutate - and then the vaccines we have can become ineffective - since they all depend on identifying the spike. Then we have to start over making new vaccines for the new strain. The more the spread continues in large numbers, the sooner this will happen. Not all new strains will necessarily be as easily spread or as deadly. They could be less problematic, or they could be much worse (think Ebola.)

(2) If we get nearly everybody vaccinated, the spread essentially stops because there are no more hosts to be infected. When it is no longer spreading, it is no longer mutating. 

(3) Because of the potential future danger that exists for everyone, the collective goal for us should be to eradicate the virus. Vaccinations are the key to that goal. This is what logic tells us. The focus should be to put Covid behind us with vaccinations just as we've done with vaccinations for smallpox, measles, and polio.

You are so greatly uninformed...almost everything you posted is wrong, and yet you carry yourself like you have all the answers when you really don’t have a clue what you are talking about 

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You are so greatly uninformed...almost everything you posted is wrong, and yet you carry yourself like you have all the answers when you really don’t have a clue what you are talking about 

What is wrong about his statement? Please explain in detail.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Typical.  Wants someone else to do the work for him.

 

I’m interested in hearing why HE disagrees, not your random snide remarks.

 

Now run along, little one.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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