vegetable lasagna 9 Report post Posted August 29, 2021 4 minutes ago, 1032004 said: ...Because of the vaccine. Multiple studies have concluded it is actually more deadly. Many countries with little vaccine coverage have recently seen their highest daily deaths of the entire pandemic. What studies? I just did a search and perused a few articles and they all say the same thing... delta is more transmissible but less severe (as in less than even a typical flu), without regard to vaccination status Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pawrestler 178 Report post Posted August 29, 2021 https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00474-6/fulltext this is a nice summary by the editors on the recent study showing delta has about a 2x risk of hospitalization for unvaxxed 1 1032004 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vegetable lasagna 9 Report post Posted August 29, 2021 10 minutes ago, pawrestler said: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00474-6/fulltext this is a nice summary by the editors on the recent study showing delta has about a 2x risk of hospitalization for unvaxxed Well, I guess we’ve established that there is conflicting information getting out from various mainstream sources.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1032004 1,515 Report post Posted August 29, 2021 58 minutes ago, vegetable lasagna said: Well, I guess we’ve established that there is conflicting information getting out from various mainstream sources.... So what’s your source for it being less deadly? ...thanks pawrestler for the links Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ionel 2,748 Report post Posted August 29, 2021 1 minute ago, 1032004 said: So what’s your source for it being less deadly? ...thanks pawrestler for the links That info has been out and pretty common knowledge for some time but we don't know what the next mutation could bring. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1032004 1,515 Report post Posted August 29, 2021 12 minutes ago, ionel said: That info has been out and pretty common knowledge for some time but we don't know what the next mutation could bring. But again, the only reason it appears "less deadly" is because of the vaccine. It's not less deadly in countries without the vaccine Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ionel 2,748 Report post Posted August 29, 2021 28 minutes ago, 1032004 said: But again, the only reason it appears "less deadly" is because of the vaccine. It's not less deadly in countries without the vaccine Do you have reference: hospital rate &/or death rate of unvaccinted from delta? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pawrestler 178 Report post Posted August 29, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, ionel said: Do you have reference: hospital rate &/or death rate of unvaccinted from delta? The Lancet study I linked a few posts back is the most definitive re: hospitalization rate for unvaxxed due to delta finding a 2x of alpha. That study only went through May 21 and didn’t look at death rate. These big tens of thousands of individuals studies are the gold standard but obviously take time etc; definitively there haven’t been studies like that focused on death rate yet. There are Medrxiv studies that are finding higher death rates with delta which I believe, but it’s better to wait for big studies that have done peer review etc. I’m sure given the recent uptick in mortality these studies will be out soon, unfortunately. Edited August 29, 2021 by pawrestler Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pawrestler 178 Report post Posted August 29, 2021 23 minutes ago, ionel said: Do you have reference: hospital rate &/or death rate of unvaccinted from delta? Never seen this website before but this is a pretty fair article on what evidence we have re delta hospitalization and mortality www.livescience.com/amp/coronavirus-delta-variant-severity.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wamba 52 Report post Posted August 29, 2021 On 8/28/2021 at 12:43 AM, Red53 said: I'll bite on why I am "antivax" in regards to Covid for those that are curious as to how one could reach this conclusion. It all starts with the Bayesian priors- I don't trust Big Pharma, I lack faith in the Federal Government, I can't trust a media that has thrown away the shackles of unbiased journalism in favor of activism, I have seen way too many new technologies fail to live up the test of time, and my immune system hasn't failed me yet. From that starting point, it's a big hill to climb. I am less skeptical than I was 6 months ago, but still happily in the control group on this grand experiment and currently recovering without issue. Interesting, thanks for sharing at least. Is there any reason why you also don’t trust medical professionals and science? I’m not judging you just trying to find out why someone doesn’t trust recommendations of medical professionals and scientists who go through not only incredible rigorous education and who also deal with scientifically proven facts through a peer reviewed system. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
John Morgan 54 Report post Posted August 30, 2021 Hi Wamba, This is why there is a debate...because of these medical professionals and science. 3 hours ago, wamba said: Interesting, thanks for sharing at least. Is there any reason why you also don’t trust medical professionals and science? I’m not judging you just trying to find out why someone doesn’t trust recommendations of medical professionals and scientists who go through not only incredible rigorous education and who also deal with scientifically proven facts through a peer reviewed system. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWBC-JX6lsg https://secureservercdn.net/198.71.233.52/r9v.b25.myftpupload.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/CovidPatientTreatmentGuide-TFH-7-31-2021.pdf 1 wamba reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GreatWhiteNorth 556 Report post Posted August 30, 2021 17 minutes ago, John Morgan said: Hi Wamba, This is why there is a debate...because of these medical professionals and science. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWBC-JX6lsg https://secureservercdn.net/198.71.233.52/r9v.b25.myftpupload.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/CovidPatientTreatmentGuide-TFH-7-31-2021.pdf Interesting. In the youtube video, at 6:10 - the speaker explains that once you have had Covid, that you can never get it again. that it's a "one and done" disease. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pawrestler 178 Report post Posted August 30, 2021 14 minutes ago, John Morgan said: Hi Wamba, This is why there is a debate...because of these medical professionals and science. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWBC-JX6lsg https://secureservercdn.net/198.71.233.52/r9v.b25.myftpupload.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/CovidPatientTreatmentGuide-TFH-7-31-2021.pdf Against my better judgment what are these supposed to prove? The ‘The Truth for Health Foundation’ gets a number of things wrong in the vaccine section alone: ‘the vaccine doesn’t protect against variants’ is false ’no reduced spread’ is certainly debatable ‘no reduced hospitalizations or deaths’ is false They hammer home ‘it’s experimental / not FDA’ approved but then talk about Regeron as an alternative (despite being experimental) and now Pfizer is approved…. They seem to have very little knowledge of the mRNA vaccine research at least recently. Comparing AIDS and covid isn’t really apples to apples. There isn’t really anything cited in this at all either just broad statements… The doctors cited in this don’t seem to have any research program — a foot and ankle doctor shouldn’t be cited as a vaccine or IDD expert. I find it kinda fascinating that one of the skepticisms against the vaccine is that you can’t hold the makers responsible yet here we are with a 20 pdf riddled no citations and really no expertise on the topic with errors giving advice… Most amazing to me is this document discourages vaccination yet the vast majority of their advantages to home care are actually achieved with the vaccine, definitively! 1 wamba reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
John Morgan 54 Report post Posted August 30, 2021 47 minutes ago, pawrestler said: Against my better judgment what are these supposed to prove? The ‘The Truth for Health Foundation’ gets a number of things wrong in the vaccine section alone: ‘the vaccine doesn’t protect against variants’ is false ’no reduced spread’ is certainly debatable ‘no reduced hospitalizations or deaths’ is false They hammer home ‘it’s experimental / not FDA’ approved but then talk about Regeron as an alternative (despite being experimental) and now Pfizer is approved…. They seem to have very little knowledge of the mRNA vaccine research at least recently. Comparing AIDS and covid isn’t really apples to apples. There isn’t really anything cited in this at all either just broad statements… The doctors cited in this don’t seem to have any research program — a foot and ankle doctor shouldn’t be cited as a vaccine or IDD expert. I find it kinda fascinating that one of the skepticisms against the vaccine is that you can’t hold the makers responsible yet here we are with a 20 pdf riddled no citations and really no expertise on the topic with errors giving advice… Most amazing to me is this document discourages vaccination yet the vast majority of their advantages to home care are actually achieved with the vaccine, definitively! My post is in relation to your comment to another poster..."Is there any reason why you also don’t trust medical professionals and science?" The interview is by Dr. Johnson interviewing Dr. Peter McCullough, MD, MPH, FACP, FACC, FCCP, FAHA, FNKF, FNLA, FCRSA Internist, Cardiologist, and Epidemiologist. They are medical professionals referencing science. Feel free to research and listen to Dr. McCullough in multiple interviews. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
John Morgan 54 Report post Posted August 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, John Morgan said: My post is in relation to your comment to another poster..."Is there any reason why you also don’t trust medical professionals and science?" The interview is by Dr. Johnson interviewing Dr. Peter McCullough, MD, MPH, FACP, FACC, FCCP, FAHA, FNKF, FNLA, FCRSA Internist, Cardiologist, and Epidemiologist. They are medical professionals referencing science. Feel free to research and listen to Dr. McCullough in multiple interviews. Sorry, meant my posts to be for Wamba. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Billyhoyle 2,500 Report post Posted August 30, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, John Morgan said: Hi Wamba, This is why there is a debate...because of these medical professionals and science. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWBC-JX6lsg https://secureservercdn.net/198.71.233.52/r9v.b25.myftpupload.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/CovidPatientTreatmentGuide-TFH-7-31-2021.pdf Yes, would “truth for health” and “real news network” be wrong?? No way, at least not based off of their names. Man, I was an idiot for believing the FDA, NIH, and scientists/physicians from Harvard, MIT, etc when all along I should have just checked “real news.” It reminds me of how I used to copy my answers off of my friends in school. The teacher said we were wrong, and that the kids who ended up going to better colleges were right, but i guess now it turns out that I was in fact correct. Edited August 30, 2021 by Billyhoyle 1 wamba reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Waste Management 53 Report post Posted August 30, 2021 Discussion has veered off course. 2 red blades and nhs67 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
