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Gable signs with WWE

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Call me naïve, but didn't they clean up the steroid use? Aren't they even tested now like in actual sports? The physiques are toned down now -- the bodybuilder days are gone
I believe this is the case. There was a lot of criticism years ago over Vince McMahon forcing steroids on his employees and there has certainly been a resulting change in the ratio of ripped vs chubby "wrestlers ". I'm sure drugs are still abused to some degree, and Gable will certainly be exposed to all sorts while traveling 300 days a year, but it won't be required.

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4 hours ago, Weems said:

Call me naïve, but didn't they clean up the steroid use? Aren't they even tested now like in actual sports? The physiques are toned down now -- the bodybuilder days are gone

Vince McMahon went on trial in the early 90s because some wrestlers had claimed he had been pushing guys to use them. The allegations were pretty serious that he was basically distributing them to the locker room and guys who didn't take them wouldn't get ahead. Around then was when you saw the big body builder types not being pushed as much. He also had created a body builder federation that didn't test for anything either but it ended up going bankrupt after a year or two. But he ended up being acquitted, mainly due to the testimony of Hulk Hogan and another wrestler who admitted on the stand he hated McMahon and would say anything to damage him. 

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5 hours ago, Weems said:

Call me naïve, but didn't they clean up the steroid use? Aren't they even tested now like in actual sports? The physiques are toned down now -- the bodybuilder days are gone

1 hour ago, Crotalus said:

I believe this is the case. There was a lot of criticism years ago over Vince McMahon forcing steroids on his employees and there has certainly been a resulting change in the ratio of ripped vs chubby "wrestlers ". I'm sure drugs are still abused to some degree, and Gable will certainly be exposed to all sorts while traveling 300 days a year, but it won't be required.

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Are you guys serious?  Of course they are  on steroids.  It's basically a job requirement unless your character is to be the 7' 400 lb guy.  

 

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You are 21 and are presented two choices:

1) A career that has the potential for over a million dollars within 15 years if Every. Single. Thing. goes your way.

2) A job that guarantees a seven figure payday before you turn 30.

So a personal anecdote to put this into perspective and take the emotion out of the logic:

Young BNWTWG was a hot shot big 4 management consultant and was raking in quite the big bucks. I am very fortunate to say that similar to a doctor or accomplished attorney, I never have to worry about money again. But it would have taken me 10-15 years of everything going exactly perfect to match would Steveson will have out the gate for a single contract. Only a fool would pass up the type of money that at worst is a nest egg.

So let's put it in wrestling terms:

He grinds, tirelessly around the clock, setting up and conducting camps with no agent. He overachieves and brings home $50k per year for 10 more years. $500k total

He dominates NCAAs and grinds to maximize his NIL with no agent. He overachieves and brings home $150k per year for 4 more years. $600k total

He trains, tirelessly around the clock, for worlds and Olympics. He wins every Olympics and worlds until 2031. He brings home 3 oly golds @ $250k and $50 for eight worlds. 1,150k total including this year.

Steveson's likely maximum earning potential if he stays with wrestling is $2,250,000. He probably signed with WWE for $1-1.5 and bonuses, not to mention a future contract(s). And don't forget that he can always fall back to wrestling later. And most importantly, if you have followed absolutely anything that Steveson has said in any interview after his freshman year and especially now that he has accomplished quite literally his only remaining goal, he is fully and absolutely

H.E.W.

He wants a new challenge. He wants to go bigger. Can you blame someone who is already hitting a peak (again) at 21 years old for wanting something different and more?

Edited by bnwtwg
my grammar. woof.

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1 minute ago, bnwtwg said:

You are 21 and are presented two choices:

1) A career that  with the potential for over a million dollars within 15 years if Every. Single. Thing. goes your way.

2) A job that guarantees a seven figure payday before you turn 30.

So a personal anecdote to put this into perspective and take the emotion out of the logic:

Young BNWTWG was a hot shot big 4 management consultant and was raking in quite the big bucks. I am very fortunate to say that similar to a doctor or accomplished attorney, I never have to worry about money again. But it would have taken me 10-15 years of everything going exactly perfect to match would Steveson will have out the gate for a single contract. Only a fool would pass up the type of money that at worst is a nest egg.

So let's put it in wrestling terms:

He grinds, tirelessly around the clock, setting up and conducting camps with no agent. He overachieves and brings home $50k per year for 10 more years. $500k total

He dominates NCAAs and grinds to maximize his NIL with no agent. He overachieves and brings home $150k per year for 4 more years. $600k total

He trains, tirelessly around the clock, for worlds and Olympics. He wins every Olympics and worlds until 2031. He brings home 3 oly golds @ $250k and $50 for eight worlds. 1,150k total including this year.

Steveson's likely maximum earning potential if he statys with wrestling is $2,250,000. He probably signed with WWE for $1-1.5 and bonuses, not to mention a future contract(s). And don't forget that he can always fall back to wrestling later. And most importantly, if you have followed absolutely anything that Steveson has said in any interview after his freshman year and especially now that he has accomplished quite literally his only remaining goal, he is fully and absolutely

H.E.W.

He wants a new challenge. He wants to go bigger. Can you blame someone who is already hitting a peak (again) at 21 years old for wanting something different and more?

Put your consultant brain to work and look at the life expectancy of an elite athlete vs professional wrestler.  And for those who say it is better to die young and enjoy your life, ask how great the quality of life is for professional wrestlers post retirement or even during their career. 

There is no guarantee that Gable will end up with the popularity of Brock or Kurt Angle.  The odds of him being a superstar like The Rock and John Cena are basically zero.  

To describe "professional wrestling" as a bigger challenge than amateur wrestling is IMO an absolute joke.  He is at the mercy of writers and Jerry Springer fans, rather than having  his own destiny in his hands.  Professional wrestlers are basically roided  up clowns-and it's usually a terrible career decision.  

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8 hours ago, BAC said:

After all the cheerleading on this forum and elsewhere for him to leave, all these wrestling fans proclaiming how WWE is such a “step up” from actual wresting, it’s hardly surprising. 

Even wrestling’s own supposed fans don’t think wrestling is a worthwhile pursuit in Its own right compared to WWE, MMA, NFL, etc. Barely a peep in support of him sticking with wrestling. With so few voices in wrestling urging him to stay, might as well auction yourself off to the highest bidder. Sad. 
 

Most fans of amateur wresting are really only fans of college wrestling, and if they do follow  freestyle, it's just to support the guys from their college team.  It's why there are so few fans of greco and women's freestyle.  So the majority of fans are  probably happy to see him go, since it opens up a world team spot for somebody from their university.  The idea of sport patriotism or wanting to see team USA be the best it can be is pretty much antiquated at this point.  Just look at the genealogy research going on at UM in desperation to send anyone to worlds/olympics.  

Edited by Billyhoyle

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6 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

Put your consultant brain to work and look at the life expectancy of an elite athlete vs professional wrestler.  And for those who say it is better to die young and enjoy your life, ask how great the quality of life is for professional wrestlers post retirement or even during their career. 

There is no guarantee that Gable will end up with the popularity of Brock or Kurt Angle.  The odds of him being a superstar like The Rock and John Cena are basically zero.  

To describe "professional wrestling" as a bigger challenge than amateur wrestling is IMO an absolute joke.  He is at the mercy of writers and Jerry Springer fans, rather than having  his own destiny in his hands.  Professional wrestlers are basically roided  up clowns-and it's usually a terrible career decision.  

Lotttttt of projecting there.

I did some quick consulting math and realized 1 million guaranteed before 27 years old is good earnings. He can be absolutely terrible and walk away with that cash. Or did I forget to carry the 1 on my multiplication?

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2 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

Most fans of amateur wresting are really only fans of college wrestling, and if they do follow  freestyle, it's just to support the guys from their college team.  It's why there are so few fans of greco and women's freestyle.  So the majority of fans are  probably happy to see him go, since it opens up a world team spot for somebody from their university.  The idea of "athletic patriotism or wanting to see team USA be the best it can be is pretty much antiquated at this point.  Just look at the genealogy research going on at UM in desperation to send anyone to worlds/olympics.  

Had me in the first half not going to lie

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8 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Lotttttt of projecting there.

I did some quick consulting math and realized 1 million guaranteed before 27 years old is good earnings. He can be absolutely terrible and walk away with that cash. Or did I forget to carry the 1 on my multiplication?

I'm just asking, since you brought up that you were at a big 4 consultancy firm (also I've heard of Big 3, but not big 4-I guess there are actually 7? This is a bit confusing to a non consultant like me).  Your client comes to you with a business problem.  Make a million dollars today but sacrifice your health, or make 200-500K/year over the next 20 years without the need for steroids/pain killers.  Which do you advise?  

Edited by Billyhoyle

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It's a bummer to me that he's leaving.  He's the best in the world at something that is incredibly real and challenging and rewarding and important, and he is giving it up at 21 with the hope of being pretty good at entertainment (yeah I know he thinks he can be a huge star but I think that's a very long shot). And he could have made a good living without risking CTE, etc.

As I've said before though it's his life and this is not an impulse, he's been pretty clear this is his preference. So God's speed. 

I am probably reaching because of my preference that he stays. Do you think there is any chance he might have stayed if he had won his NCAA or Olympic championships in front of huge loud crowds instead of empty or almost empty arenas?  He is more the crowd showman than any other wrestler, could that have made him want to stay?  

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1 hour ago, Billyhoyle said:

I'm just asking, since you brought up that you were at a big 4 consultancy firm (also I've heard of Big 3, but not big 4-I guess there are actually 7? This is a bit confusing to a non consultant like me).  Your client comes to you with a business problem.  Make a million dollars today but sacrifice your health, or make 200-500K/year over the next 20 years without the need for steroids/pain killers.  Which do you advise?  

You’re asking a very strict hypothetical that has only been available to a few upper weight Olympic gold medalists since 1996 (Angle, Rulon, Cael, Varner, Snyder, Taylor, Steveson). So the question is available to what, 8 people tops? It is comparable to if a niche market start-up organization has the opportunity of cross-market expansion with a high value guaranteed revenue stream that the ground crew is 50/50 on supporting because it’s “not what the company is about” but also “we could really go places!” and ultimately org leadership realizes the company could very easily go upside-down in a matter of weeks and be lapped by the competition (ie Steveson could easily not medal next month or next year or blow out his ACL or…) So I advise the organization to take the guaranteed large return, continue to follow the path they set out on, and try to grow accordingly. It’s not quite apples to apples but you asked my opinion and I’m of the opinion that if you can get a mil before 30 you take it.

Also, it hasn’t been a big 8 (not seven) since Arthur Anderson was exploited in the Enron scandal. The big 4 are Deloitte, EY, PwC, and KPMG; the best is McKinsey.

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10 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

You’re asking a very strict hypothetical that has only been available to a few upper weight Olympic gold medalists since 1996 (Angle, Rulon, Cael, Varner, Snyder, Taylor, Steveson). So the question is available to what, 8 people tops? It is comparable to if a niche market start-up organization has the opportunity of cross-market expansion with a high value guaranteed revenue stream that the ground crew is 50/50 on supporting because it’s “not what the company is about” but also “we could really go places!” and ultimately org leadership realizes the company could very easily go upside-down in a matter of weeks and be lapped by the competition (ie Steveson could easily not medal next month or next year or blow out his ACL or…) So I advise the organization to take the guaranteed large return, continue to follow the path they set out on, and try to grow accordingly. It’s not quite apples to apples but you asked my opinion and I’m of the opinion that if you can get a mil before 30 you take it.

Also, it hasn’t been a big 8 (not seven) since Arthur Anderson was exploited in the Enron scandal. The big 4 are Deloitte, EY, PwC, and KPMG; the best is McKinsey.

I think you missed his point. Your analysis only focuses on top line revenue. I think he was saying that you need to look at the expense side of the ledger too. If making a million comes at the expense of having to take steroids is it worth it? To some people the answer is clearly yes. To me the answer is clearly no. One thing I have learned is that there are so many ways to make money that you need to look at what the cost of alternative methods are.

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56 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I think you missed his point. Your analysis only focuses on top line revenue. I think he was saying that you need to look at the expense side of the ledger too. If making a million comes at the expense of having to take steroids is it worth it? To some people the answer is clearly yes. To me the answer is clearly no. One thing I have learned is that there are so many ways to make money that you need to look at what the cost of alternative methods are.

Correct. A person's life is not a for profit company with a fiduciary obligation to maximize financial return to its owners. 

A person can have all the money in the world and not enjoy it if they have an illness resulting from the making of that money, which is the for instance in a couple of posts above.

And my point is that a person who has been in competitive sports might prefer the rewards of competition over the financial rewards of entertainment, particularly when the latter means giving up so much autonomy at 21.  And when they can make real money in real competition more so than at any point in the past. 

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1 hour ago, bnwtwg said:

You’re asking a very strict hypothetical that has only been available to a few upper weight Olympic gold medalists since 1996 (Angle, Rulon, Cael, Varner, Snyder, Taylor, Steveson). So the question is available to what, 8 people tops? It is comparable to if a niche market start-up organization has the opportunity of cross-market expansion with a high value guaranteed revenue stream that the ground crew is 50/50 on supporting because it’s “not what the company is about” but also “we could really go places!” and ultimately org leadership realizes the company could very easily go upside-down in a matter of weeks and be lapped by the competition (ie Steveson could easily not medal next month or next year or blow out his ACL or…) So I advise the organization to take the guaranteed large return, continue to follow the path they set out on, and try to grow accordingly. It’s not quite apples to apples but you asked my opinion and I’m of the opinion that if you can get a mil before 30 you take it.

Also, it hasn’t been a big 8 (not seven) since Arthur Anderson was exploited in the Enron scandal. The big 4 are Deloitte, EY, PwC, and KPMG; the best is McKinsey.

What if the large sum significantly increases one’s likelihood of death, serious injury, or substance abuse? Perfect example of choosing long term value is John Urschel walking away from the NFL to be a grad student at MIT. And WWE is significantly more dangerous than the NFL. When the consultants advised Purdue pharma to market oxy to whomever would want an opioid, did they consider the consequences of those actions? Should they have? 

I see, so the big 4 is the second tier behind the big 3? Or is it better than the big 3? But it used to be the big 3 and big 5? This is confusing-kind of like how I have no idea how many teams are in the big 12 or big 10 anymore. 

 

1 hour ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I think you missed his point. Your analysis only focuses on top line revenue. I think he was saying that you need to look at the expense side of the ledger too. If making a million comes at the expense of having to take steroids is it worth it? To some people the answer is clearly yes. To me the answer is clearly no. One thing I have learned is that there are so many ways to make money that you need to look at what the cost of alternative methods are.

Exactly, thank you for explaining it in a clearer way than I could. Many here seem to celebrate WWE as being better than freestyle without realizing how pathetic a business it really is. If we compare the careers of Kurt Angle or Brock Lesnar, versus Cael Sanderson, Tom Brands or Jordan Burroughs, I would argue that things are objectively better for the latter three.  Yes, Angle and Lesnar have profited more financially in the short term, but the long term consequences will likely prove disastrous.  In both of their defenses, there are way more paths to financial success in freestyle wrestling now than were available in the 90s/2000s.

 

For Gable, we will see how things turn out. But I’d bet this will be another Pico situation-lots of early hype, but a disappointing result. 

Edited by Billyhoyle

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10 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I think you missed his point. Your analysis only focuses on top line revenue. I think he was saying that you need to look at the expense side of the ledger too. If making a million comes at the expense of having to take steroids is it worth it? To some people the answer is clearly yes. To me the answer is clearly no. One thing I have learned is that there are so many ways to make money that you need to look at what the cost of alternative methods are.

Like most here I don’t watch WWE but as I think someone else said earlier, hasn’t the WWE cleaned up a lot (I’m sure not all) of the steroid use?  Couldn’t it be argued that training for fake wrestling might actually be more safe than training for real wrestling?

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I've been away from this forum, for a bit of time... how come I'm not surprised about this outcome? (clue: I wasn't. ;-) )

Money talks, and it's talking to him, right now.

I would've like to see him wrestle for a few more years (at least to the next Olympic cycle.) His potential is off the charts.

Oh, well...

D3

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Like most here I don’t watch WWE but as I think someone else said earlier, hasn’t the WWE cleaned up a lot (I’m sure not all) of the steroid use?  Couldn’t it be argued that training for fake wrestling might actually be more safe than training for real wrestling?
No and No.



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