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Is Ech a comparable to A Valencia? 
Even full-time at an RTC, would he have a realistic shot at a WT? 
 
Valencia was unique in a variety of ways.
He had one super solid attack.
His gas-tank was consistently the most unreliable in the sport.
Once he gassed his defense was worse than mine.

I think Ech is a more complete wrestler, and realistically we have lesser competition for the spot (don't get me wrong our 65kg guys are tough, just not all time greats like 74kg)

I'd say he would've had a more realistic shot at a team, but I wouldn't have picked him.

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I wouldn't compare Valencia to Echemendia.

Valencia, much like Logan Massa, had a go-to and some other very solid offensive folkstyle capabilities heading in to college.   

Massa suffered a serious physical injury which later became a mental hindrance, understandably so.  It worked for him in ways that his go-to was no longer viable, as most of the elite grapplers had already learned how to counter it by his fourth season (his redshirt junior season).  Once he learned how to get over the mental 'injury' bump that a lot of wrestlers get, he became a contender again.  Not as scary of one, but a contender on the right nights. 

Valencia on the other hand lacked the mental fortitude to handle evolving as a wrestler once his 'go-to' move(s) were figured out.  Once he got figured out in a match he would simply collapse.

Both of their athleticisms mixed with the effect of them being new on the scene carried them further their first couple of seasons.

Echemendia simply is helpless when it comes to folkstyle.  He still is.  I don't think his neutral game has been effected too greatly, if we are honestly speaking on.  If he felt he could just focus on his neutral game he would take down folks at will and compete in that aspect of the game alone.  Since once you hit the mat, even in neutral when you're under someone on a shot, he likely has a mental block of 'what-if' someone gets on top.  Add in that D'Emilio and Decatur are practice partners and there you have it.  He won't see the starting lineup.  His neutral game will carry him further against elite grapplers, though, than it will D'Emilio or Decatur.  The same can be said for his mat game against those who D'Emilio and Decatur both might outclass in a full match. 

Look at the Eiermani match for example.  D'Emilio and Decatur both would have had zero, zilch, nada for Eiermani in any aspect of a folkstyle match.  Echemendia kept it interesting on the feet.  At least for a little while.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

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2 hours ago, nhs67 said:

I wouldn't compare Valencia to Echemendia.

Valencia, much like Logan Massa, had a go-to and some other very solid offensive folkstyle capabilities heading in to college.   

Massa suffered a serious physical injury which later became a mental hindrance, understandably so.  It worked for him in ways that his go-to was no longer viable, as most of the elite grapplers had already learned how to counter it by his fourth season (his redshirt junior season).  Once he learned how to get over the mental 'injury' bump that a lot of wrestlers get, he became a contender again.  Not as scary of one, but a contender on the right nights. 

Valencia on the other hand lacked the mental fortitude to handle evolving as a wrestler once his 'go-to' move(s) were figured out.  Once he got figured out in a match he would simply collapse.

Both of their athleticisms mixed with the effect of them being new on the scene carried them further their first couple of seasons.

Echemendia simply is helpless when it comes to folkstyle.  He still is.  I don't think his neutral game has been effected too greatly, if we are honestly speaking on.  If he felt he could just focus on his neutral game he would take down folks at will and compete in that aspect of the game alone.  Since once you hit the mat, even in neutral when you're under someone on a shot, he likely has a mental block of 'what-if' someone gets on top.  Add in that D'Emilio and Decatur are practice partners and there you have it.  He won't see the starting lineup.  His neutral game will carry him further against elite grapplers, though, than it will D'Emilio or Decatur.  The same can be said for his mat game against those who D'Emilio and Decatur both might outclass in a full match. 

Look at the Eiermani match for example.  D'Emilio and Decatur both would have had zero, zilch, nada for Eiermani in any aspect of a folkstyle match.  Echemendia kept it interesting on the feet.  At least for a little while.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

I agree with everything you said except for Echemendia being able to keep it interesting with someone like Eierman.  In folk, Eierman destroys him the same as D'Emilio and Decatur.  Echemendia will be scared to shoot on Eierman's legs because of the scrambling ability.  Perhaps in freestyle, it might be another story.  Echemendia would have a better chance than D'Emilio and Decatur, as he is far superior in free, but I still have Eierman winning.  

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Ech kept it to 4-0 into the third period before getting cradled from the top and stuck. : - )

Re-watching their match, Eierman looked like he was waiting for a big move the entire match. He was letting Ech in on his legs because he knew he’d have a chance to cradle him.


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14 minutes ago, Le duke said:


Re-watching their match, Eierman looked like he was waiting for a big move the entire match. He was letting Ech in on his legs because he knew he’d have a chance to cradle him.
 

Interesting that he didn't cradle him until he was on top in the third. 

Edited by Mphillips

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2 hours ago, ShakaAloha said:

I agree with everything you said except for Echemendia being able to keep it interesting with someone like Eierman.  In folk, Eierman destroys him the same as D'Emilio and Decatur.  Echemendia will be scared to shoot on Eierman's legs because of the scrambling ability.  Perhaps in freestyle, it might be another story.  Echemendia would have a better chance than D'Emilio and Decatur, as he is far superior in free, but I still have Eierman winning.  

I never said he could or would beat Eiermani.  I merely meant his neutral abilities at freestyle will take him further against the elite like Eiermani than D'Emilio or Decatur would do.  Mainly because every match starts on the feet.

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1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

I never said he could or would beat Eiermani.  I merely meant his neutral abilities at freestyle will take him further against the elite like Eiermani than D'Emilio or Decatur would do.  Mainly because every match starts on the feet.

...and you were right. That's what happened when they wrestled until the third when Ech got pinned from bottom.

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8 hours ago, BlueWolverine said:

Michigan?

125: Suriano
133: Ragusin
141: Micic
149: Storr
157: Lewan
165: C Amine
174: Massa
184: M Amine
197: Brucki
Hwt: Parris

Is that enough fire power to knock off Penn State and Iowa? I would love to see that happen. 

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4 minutes ago, Idaho said:

Is that enough fire power to knock off Penn State and Iowa? I would love to see that happen. 

The answer to that question depends on whether Micic can be effective up at 141 and if Massa can be one of the best at 174.  If both those guys can place in the top 4 they have a chance.  Suriano, Myles Amine, and Parris should all have a good chance of making it to the finals. Ragusin, Cam Amine, Lewan and Brucki all have a shot at AA - If 2 of those 4 AA plus the 5 guys discussed earlier place high they have a shot.  I still think Iowa will need a couple of hic ups.

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1 hour ago, lu1979 said:

The answer to that question depends on whether Micic can be effective up at 141 and if Massa can be one of the best at 174.  If both those guys can place in the top 4 they have a chance.  Suriano, Myles Amine, and Parris should all have a good chance of making it to the finals. Ragusin, Cam Amine, Lewan and Brucki all have a shot at AA - If 2 of those 4 AA plus the 5 guys discussed earlier place high they have a shot.  I still think Iowa will need a couple of hic ups.

Chances GIFs - Get the best GIF on GIPHY

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