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17 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

This is just lazy.

Spencer sat out 1 freestyle season. He missed the rest with injury, with both of those injuries happening during the college postseason right before he would have had to wrestle at trials. Even so, he was registered to wrestle at a late summer international tournament in the summer of 2019, but pulled out a few days before (we now know this was likely due to an ACL setback). He started his senior career two years ago. It's not his fault covid cancelled everything and then he got hurt. If everything went by their plan/timeline, he'd be somewhere overseas right now getting ready to defend his Olympic title from a year ago. This idea that Spencer has been "held out" is ridiculous.

Actually, quite a few teams held their guys off of world teams that summer. Do you remember what happened the year prior with several guys on world teams getting off to sluggish starts? You should because Mekhi was one of them. Warner was on that team too and got off to a really slow start and spoke about how he wasn't ready to go at the beginning of the season because he was banged up from worlds. It was a big topic of conversation heading into that summer whether participation would be down because of it. Even so, they still sent Cass to U23's. 

To address the guys on your list:

Spencer: covered

Eierman: wrestled in 2019 senior nationals right after coming, 2020 was cancelled, wrestled at 2020 senior nationals, wrestled at 2021 senior nationals. The only tournament he didn't wrestle at was Last Chance, which was a week after NCAAs. If he had beaten Lee, he would have wrestled at trials.

Warner: junior world team, U23s

Cass: basically wrestled everywhere, juniors, u23s, senior nationals etc...

Not to mention the entire rest of their lineup has wrestled offseason freestyle as well: Desanto, Murin, Young, Marinelli, Kemerer, and all 3 potential 184s have wrestled freestyle multiple times since coming to Iowa.

So Iowa is just unlucky to have no rep at WTT and trials,  no contenders, etc? But PSU, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Michigan, Ohio State, etc can somehow consistently show up? 

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57 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

Yup. That’s the highlight of Iowa’s freestyle in an Olympic year with a wtt, the same year they won NCAAs. How Iowa fans can try to defend that is beyond me

A third stringer Hawkeye also made the team

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10 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Only because Steveson Parris and Kerkvliet didn’t show up to U23 trials. It means about as much as his 700 age group trophies and this is coming from an Illinois homer

Only responding to Housebuye's previous post.  Also, Cass has never lost to the Skinny Minny.

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1 hour ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I am aware of the theories on this board, yes.

But any one reason is not the issue. It wasn't the same reason for the women or Snyder or Cox or any other senior wrestler who moved RTCs without choosing HWC. It is no one reason they had one entrant in the two world team qualifiers this year. People are so caught up in individual circumstances that they miss the forest for the trees.

I'm talking Gilman, not the others.  

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37 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Only because Steveson Parris and Kerkvliet didn’t show up to U23 trials. It means about as much as his 700 age group trophies and this is coming from an Illinois homer

Skinny Minny hasn't shown up to a lot of things.  Where is he today, now that you bring him up?

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1 hour ago, Housebuye said:

So Iowa is just unlucky to have no rep at WTT and trials,  no contenders, etc? But PSU, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Michigan, Ohio State, etc can somehow consistently show up? 

Where is PSU today?  What is an Oklahoma?

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37 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

And where are all the PSU collegians?  Don't RBY, Brooks, Kerk, etc. all have Olympic goals?

This is WTT not OTT. Lee and Brooks were at OTT. RBY is a tweener for Olympic weights and Kerkvliet was injured and didn't qualify for OTT.

You keep wanting to make the conversation about just one thing. Just about Gilman or just about the collegians, but the fact of the matter is that it is a broader issue. You can't ignore the fact that three weights on the men's side are not being competed at the WTT because one RTC saw to it at the Olympics. You can't ugnore the fact that HWC no longer has a women's presence and you can't ignore the fact that even at an inconvenient time for college wrestlers NLWC still has more collegians entered in the WTT than HWC. The fact that it only takes one is the point.

Edited by Wrestleknownothing

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39 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

This is WTT not OTT. Lee and Brooks were at OTT. RBY is a tweener for Olympic weights and Kerkvliet was injured and didn't qualify for OTT.

You keep wanting to make the conversation about just one thing. Just about Gilman or just about the collegians, but the fact of the matter is that it is a broader issue. You can't ignore the fact that three weights on the men's side are not being competed at the WTT because one RTC saw to it at the Olympics. You can't ugnore the fact that HWC no longer has a women's presence and you can't ignore the fact that even at an inconvenient time for college wrestlers NLWC still has more collegians entered in the WTT than HWC. The fact that it only takes one is the point.

Kerk was at OTT.  Glad you followed it so closely.

Where is he today?  Where are all the other PSU guys that qualified?  Not just Kerk, but Lee, Brooks, RBY, Bartlett?  Other guys have bumped up or gone down.  

HWC just signed three women.  Where is the NLWC women's presence?

The point is that you are just bashing the defending national champs.  PSU: no women's presence and only one of 5+ collegians that they qualified showed up.  Heck... Nick Lee would have been #2 seed and likely had a guy he beat by 8 in the semi.  To paraphrase Col. Jessup 'Congrats Cael, all you did was weaken a country today,' by holding out a potential world medalist in Nick Lee.  Cael is clearly more concerned with the college season than getting his guys on the world team.

But you follow the sport so closely that you don't remember Skinny Minny beating Parris at OTT.

Edited by AHamilton

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6 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

Kerk was at OTT.  Glad you followed it so closely.

Where is he today?  Where are all the other PSU guys that qualified?  Not just Kerk, but Lee, Brooks, RBY, Bartlett?  Other guys have bumped up or gone down.  

HWC just signed three women.  Where is the NLWC women's presence?

The point is that you are just bashing the defending national champs.  PSU: no women's presence and only one of 5+ collegians that they qualified showed up.  Heck... Nick Lee would have been #2 seed and likely had a guy he beat by 8 in the semi.  To paraphrase Col. Jessup 'Congrats Cael, all you did was weaken a country today,' by holding out a potential world medalist in Nick Lee.  Cael is clearly more concerned with the college season than getting his guys on the world team.

But you follow the sport so closely that you don't remember Skinny Minny beating Parris at OTT.

You know Colonel Jessup was the criminal, right?

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43 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

You know Colonel Jessup was the criminal, right?

Alleged.  I do not recall hearing the outcome of his trial.... and you know that a lot of that last post was tongue in cheek?

Probably not, as you don't know that Kerk was at OTT and all those other guys qualified for WTT.

Cael and/or the athletes chose to focus on the upcoming season.  Not surprising considering what happened to Cassar against Bradley during his 9th year as a Nittany Lion.  It makes sense, but please hold them to the same standard you hold the HWC. Lugo is the only HWC athlete who is not a collegian.  For whatever reason, he didn't attend.  He pronbably wasn't going to be a major player.

And Starocci is having a nice little run on the backside.

Edited by AHamilton

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19 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

Yes... and you know that a lot of that last post was tongue in cheek.

Probably not, as you don't know that Kerk was at OTT and all those other guys qualified for WTT.

Cael and/or the athletes chose to focus on the upcoming season.  Not surprising considering what happened to Cassar against Bradley during his 9th year as a Nittany Lion.  It makes sense, but please hold them to the same standard you hold the HWC. Lugo is the only HWC athlete who is not a collegian.  For whatever reason, he didn't attend.  He pronbably wasn't going to be a major player.

And Starocci is having a nice little run on the backside.

I think I am holding them to the same standard. Presumably an RTC exists to serve the interests of the national team. If an RTC only has collegians that have split loyalties then the RTC is incomplete. Everyone who seems to want to make this about collegians alone, but that was not, and still is not, my original queation.

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Just now, Wrestleknownothing said:

I think I am holding them to the same standard. Presumably an RTC exists to serve the interests of the national team. If an RTC only has collegians that have split loyalties then the RTC is incomplete. Everyone who seems to want to make this about collegians alone, but that was not, and still is not, my original queation.

So NLWC left way more guys at home.  Where is your post vilifying them?

And an RTC exists to serve the interests of the national team?  As usual, you are wrong.  Explain Chamizo, Khinci, Bekzod and may others.

So what did you think of Kerk at OTT?

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The problem isn’t that the HWC college guys stayed home. The problem is that the college guys stayed home and the senior cupboard is bare as a direct result of focusing on folk style development and giving it everything to beat Carl’s team one (1) time. Probably a good reason why Gilman left…

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This is a strange thread and a strange argument in general. I think some of the anti-iowa posts are grasping at straws and employing a bit too much hyperbole but that is par for the course I guess. 

As a monthly contributor to the HWC, I do think it is odd that the hawks have had such a comparatively light presence on the freestyle scene. I know there are reasons for this (Lee's terrible streak of injuries, for one), and I'm sure there is much we'll never know for sure (why didn't Lugo participate?), But it's odd. If this continues next summer I'll be much more concerned 

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16 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

So NLWC left way more guys at home.  Where is your post vilifying them?

And an RTC exists to serve the interests of the national team?  As usual, you are wrong.  Explain Chamizo, Khinci, Bekzod and may others.

So what did you think of Kerk at OTT?

I haven't vilified anyone. So no need to vilify anyone else.

Since the RTC is a creation of USAW, yes, it is intended to serve the interests of the national team.

I wasn't surprised Starocci lost in the first round as I think his style is more condusive to folk, so his run on the back side has me re-thinking that. The bigger surprise to me is that Imar won his second match after eking out that first one. Also plesantly surprised with James Green taking out JO at 70. And very much looking forward to Diakomihalis v. McKenna final.

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26 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

The problem isn’t that the HWC college guys stayed home. The problem is that the college guys stayed home and the senior cupboard is bare as a direct result of focusing on folk style development and giving it everything to beat Carl’s team one (1) time. Probably a good reason why Gilman left…

People keep saying stuff like this, but what do they actually mean by it? Every good Iowa wrestler for at least the past 8-10 years has wrestled off season freestyle. Actually, almost every Iowa wrestler in general.

 

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3 hours ago, bnwtwg said:

Only because Steveson Parris and Kerkvliet didn’t show up to U23 trials. It means about as much as his 700 age group trophies and this is coming from an Illinois homer

"Iowa doesn't care about freestyle so they don't let their guys compete"

*points out they have two on a world team*

"Well only because some other guys didn't show up"

lmao

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7 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I haven't vilified anyone. So no need to vilify anyone else.

Since the RTC is a creation of USAW, yes, it is intended to serve the interests of the national team.

I wasn't surprised Starocci lost in the first round as I think his style is more condusive to folk, so his run on the back side has me re-thinking that. The bigger surprise to me is that Imar won his second match after eking out that first one. Also plesantly surprised with James Green taking out JO at 70. And very much looking forward to Diakomihalis v. McKenna final.

It is VERY conduCive to free

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