Gable returning for senior year

[Billyhoyle 2,469]

They call themselves professional wrestling-even though it's obviously just fake reality TV show, he is still kind of going professional in his sport. It's not even really an NIL deal, since it is a multiple year contact that includes him actually play wrestling. If this is really allowed now, Reggie Bush needs to get his Heisman back.

[VakAttack 3,966]

He has nothing to gain by coming back, he can only lose status if matches are closer than they should be, or in the (unlikely) circumstance he loses.  He seems to be doing this purely because he wants to.  Have to respect that, and I'm glad I get to watch him wrestle competitively more, even though my team's guy is unlikely to even be truly competitive with him.

[wrestlingphish 1,011]

10 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

They call themselves professional wrestling-even though it's obviously just fake reality TV show, he is still kind of going professional in his sport. It's not even really an NIL deal, since it is a multiple year contact that includes him actually play wrestling. If this is really allowed now, Reggie Bush needs to get his Heisman back.

These situations aren't even comparable. He is still most definitely not kind of going professional in his sport. 

[JasonBryant 2,058]

33 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

It's not even really an NIL deal, since it is a multiple year contact that includes him actually play wrestling.

The NIL portion of the deal allows him to do WWE-related promotional events, etc. and get paid for it. He will not be doing a dual on Sunday and RAW on Monday, for example. That's not how the NIL part of the deal works. His performance schedule/training part of the contract will take place following his career at Minnesota being done. Based on your previous comments about pro wrestling, I'm positive you have no idea what the details of his contract are, or how any of this all actually works. 

 

[Wrestleknownothing 1,446]

5 minutes ago, JasonBryant said:

The NIL portion of the deal allows him to do WWE-related promotional events, etc. and get paid for it. He will not be doing a dual on Sunday and RAW on Monday, for example. That's not how the NIL part of the deal works. His performance schedule/training part of the contract will take place following his career at Minnesota being done. Based on your previous comments about pro wrestling, I'm positive you have no idea what the details of his contract are, or how any of this all actually works. 

 

When has that ever been a relevant concept on this board? One demerit for trying to raise the level of discourse.

[gimpeltf 2,044]

1 hour ago, JasonBryant said:

The NIL portion of the deal allows him to do WWE-related promotional events, etc. and get paid for it. He will not be doing a dual on Sunday and RAW on Monday, for example. That's not how the NIL part of the deal works. His performance schedule/training part of the contract will take place following his career at Minnesota being done. Based on your previous comments about pro wrestling, I'm positive you have no idea what the details of his contract are, or how any of this all actually works. 

It sounded like they ran it past compliance. And given that I don't know details either I wonder if the part that should follow his NCAA career is just verbal at this point. I didn't think you could deal with an agent/professional organization yet even with the new NIL stuff.

[Gantry 1,872]

Spencer Lee talked about having an agent in a recent interview IIRC

[JasonBryant 2,058]

When has that ever been a relevant concept on this board? One demerit for trying to raise the level of discourse.

My mistake. I accept said demerit. I will now try to figure out the three seashells.

[Billyhoyle 2,469]

8 hours ago, JasonBryant said:

The NIL portion of the deal allows him to do WWE-related promotional events, etc. and get paid for it. He will not be doing a dual on Sunday and RAW on Monday, for example. That's not how the NIL part of the deal works. His performance schedule/training part of the contract will take place following his career at Minnesota being done. Based on your previous comments about pro wrestling, I'm positive you have no idea what the details of his contract are, or how any of this all actually works. 

 

Right, I understand that the first year is like that. But it was reported that he signed a multi year contract that includes actual performance in later years. Could an ncaa basketball player sign a professional basketball contract that includes one year of appearances and then two years of competition and retain amateur status? Doesn’t the act of signing the contract and having access to the facilities/guaranteed future earnings constitute turning professional? For example, Gable could easily take out a loan today on the basis of the future earnings guaranteed in the later part of the contract.

I literally said that I don’t know the answer and am asking those here more familiar with the law. No need to attack me even asking the question-as I pointed out-I do not know. Have you asked lawyers familiar with this area of law in your reporting? At the very least, it’s worth looking into rather than being taken at face value given how new this all is and WWE’s history of shady business practices. 

Edited September 10, 2021 by Billyhoyle

[GreatWhiteNorth 530]

1 hour ago, Billyhoyle said:

Right, I understand that the first year is like that. But it was reported that he signed a multi year contract that includes actual performance in later years. Could an ncaa basketball player sign a professional basketball contract that includes one year of appearances and then two years of competition and retain amateur status? Doesn’t the act of signing the contract and having access to the facilities/guaranteed future earnings constitute turning professional? For example, Gable could easily take out a loan today on the basis of the future earnings guaranteed in the later part of the contract.

Now you're just purposely being obtuse. You know that WWE is not a professional sport like professional basketball.

"Duh, but they call it professional wrestling, don't they?" ... nobody here, including you, actually believes it's a professional version of amateur wrestling.

[NJDan 1,059]

48 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

Now you're just purposely being obtuse. You know that WWE is not a professional sport like professional basketball.

"Duh, but they call it professional wrestling, don't they?" ... nobody here, including you, actually believes it's a professional version of amateur wrestling.

If it's a sport at all, WWE is a different sport and NCAA athletes are allowed to be pros in different sports.

[ionel 2,432]

1 hour ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

 

would amateurs do this  ^^^ 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[GreatWhiteNorth 530]

14 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

They call themselves professional wrestling-even though it's obviously just fake reality TV show, he is still kind of going professional in his sport.

No - He's not going professional in his sport. Not even "kind of". 

Starfish are not fish
Guinea pigs are not pigs
Koala bears are not bears

WWE wrestling is not a pro version of amateur wrestling.

Stop being a turd boy.

Edited September 11, 2021 by GreatWhiteNorth

[nom 1,179]

@GreatWhiteNorth - love this post.  Well done.

[NJDan 1,059]

10 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

No - He's not going professional in his sport. Not even "kind of". 

Starfish are not fish
Guinea pigs are not pigs
Koala bears are not bears

WWE wrestling is not a pro version of amateur wrestling.

Stop being a turd boy.

I know you are not saying that about Koalas. They are the best bears except maybe pandas.

[Billyhoyle 2,469]

13 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

No - He's not going professional in his sport. Not even "kind of". 

Starfish are not fish
Guinea pigs are not pigs
Koala bears are not bears

WWE wrestling is not a pro version of amateur wrestling.

Stop being a turd boy.

Obviously WWE is one of the dumbest things on TV-I agree with you on that. But if an NCAA basketball player joined the And1 tour, would that similarly be allowed? Greco is very different than folkstyle-can NCAA wrestlers get paid for pro Greco matches? What about beach wrestling? WWE calls itself pro wrestling-do you not see why the NCAA might take issue with an amateur wrestler signing a so called pro wrestling contract? 
 

There two separate arguments being made in this thread-one is that WWE is first having him make appearances which is the NIL part of the deal, after which he will be professional.  The other is that WWE doesn’t count because it isn’t professional wrestling. Will either or both of these excuses fly with the NCAA?

[PSUSMC 312]

13 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

Guinea pigs are not pigs

nor are they Italian

[Wrestleknownothing 1,446]

6 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

Obviously WWE is one of the dumbest things on TV-I agree with you on that. But if an NCAA basketball player joined the And1 tour, would that similarly be allowed? Greco is very different than folkstyle-can NCAA wrestlers get paid for pro Greco matches? What about beach wrestling? WWE calls itself pro wrestling-do you not see why the NCAA might take issue with an amateur wrestler signing a so called pro wrestling contract? 
 

There two separate arguments being made in this thread-one is that WWE is first having him make appearances which is the NIL part of the deal, after which he will be professional.  The other is that WWE doesn’t count because it isn’t professional wrestling. Will either or both of these excuses fly with the NCAA?

A couple thoughts:

WWE is a profession, but not professional sport. With pre-determined outcomes, it is not a professional version of wrestling no matter the words used to market it.

As for the NCAA appetite for enforcement, it is significantly reduced after it was made clear to them in court that they are facing the revocation of their anti-trust protections if the interfere with the athlete's compensation (this was in the case regarding capping post-grad pay or scholarship, I forget precise details). Losing that case and being threatened with the lose of anti-trust protection is why they did an immediate about face on NIL.

With state NIL laws about to take effect and an antagonistic judiciary they knew they would lose any fight and instead abdicated responsibilty to the member institutions. So unless something truly egregious has happened I would not count on any NCAA action, though they might back channel ask U of Minn to do something about any less than egregious situation.

Then Minn would have a decision on their hands. Go after one of their own who has brought massive positive attention to the school and risk alienating future recruits, or just say thanks, but no thanks to a weakened NCAA. I would bet on the latter.

[Billyhoyle 2,469]

15 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

A couple thoughts:

WWE is a profession, but not professional sport. With pre-determined outcomes, it is not a professional version of wrestling no matter the words used to market it.

As for the NCAA appetite for enforcement, it is significantly reduced after it was made clear to them in court that they are facing the revocation of their anti-trust protections if the interfere with the athlete's compensation (this was in the case regarding capping post-grad pay or scholarship, I forget precise details). Losing that case and being threatened with the lose of anti-trust protection is why they did an immediate about face on NIL.

With state NIL laws about to take effect and an antagonistic judiciary they knew they would lose any fight and instead abdicated responsibilty to the member institutions. So unless something truly egregious has happened I would not count on any NCAA action, though they might back channel ask U of Minn to do something about any less than egregious situation.

Then Minn would have a decision on their hands. Go after one of their own who has brought massive positive attention to the school and risk alienating future recruits, or just say thanks, but no thanks to a weakened NCAA. I would bet on the latter.

By this logic, an NCAA basketball player should be able to be paid to play in a basketball exhibition like And1 or the Harlem Globetrotters, where the outcome is predetermined/doesn’t matter and the competition is more about the spectacle of cool dunks/dribbling, correct? An NCAA baseball player should be able to be paid to enter a home run derby? An NCAA gymnast should be able to enter on tour with professional gymnastic performances (not the competitions, but the shows we often see Olympians do when they’re done competing)? I’m not saying you are wrong, but I’m wondering how far this goes.
 

It seems at this point, we are a half step away from just saying pro athletes should be allowed to compete in college if they want. Athletes profiting off image/likeness while in college is one thing, but it seems wrong to give somebody access to professional training facilities.Does being a student athlete even matter? 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Billyhoyle

[Wrestleknownothing 1,446]

11 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

By this logic, an NCAA basketball player should be able to be paid to play in a basketball exhibition like And1 or the Harlem Globetrotters, where the outcome is predetermined/doesn’t matter and the competition is more about the spectacle of cool dunks/dribbling, correct? An NCAA baseball player should be able to be paid to enter a home run derby? An NCAA gymnast should be able to enter on tour with professional gymnastic performances (not the competitions, but the shows we often see Olympians do when they’re done competing)? I’m not saying you are wrong, but I’m wondering how far this goes.
 

It seems at this point, we are a half step away from just saying pro athletes should be allowed to compete in college if they want. Athletes profiting off image/likeness while in college is one thing, but it seems wrong to give somebody access to professional training facilities.Does being a student athlete even matter? 

Remember the pay-for- performance portion of the deal doesn't kick in until after eligibility ends, so sure sign a forward contract for whatever you want. Not unlike accepting any job offer before you graduate. Have a paid internship that leads to a full-time job. Why should that be any different than have an NIL that leads to a full-time job?

People have a hard time getting past the propaganda the NCAA has pushed for its entire existence that there is a purity to adults profitting from the toil of minors. You have to live a particularly naive existence if you believe when Nick Saban, he of the 8 year $86 million contract plus Aflac commercials, preaches the virtues of being a student athlete or the vices of transferring to another school to get a shot at the NFL rather than sit on his bench so he can stockpile talent.

[NJDan 1,059]

39 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

By this logic, an NCAA basketball player should be able to be paid to play in a basketball exhibition like And1 or the Harlem Globetrotters, where the outcome is predetermined/doesn’t matter and the competition is more about the spectacle of cool dunks/dribbling, correct? An NCAA baseball player should be able to be paid to enter a home run derby? An NCAA gymnast should be able to enter on tour with professional gymnastic performances (not the competitions, but the shows we often see Olympians do when they’re done competing)? I’m not saying you are wrong, but I’m wondering how far this goes.
 

It seems at this point, we are a half step away from just saying pro athletes should be allowed to compete in college if they want. Athletes profiting off image/likeness while in college is one thing, but it seems wrong to give somebody access to professional training facilities.Does being a student athlete even matter? 

But in this case WWE is not a sport at all. It's scripted entertainment. So it's like Gable getting a job acting in a play.

[Billyhoyle 2,469]

8 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Remember the pay-for- performance portion of the deal doesn't kick in until after eligibility ends, so sure sign a forward contract for whatever you want. Not unlike accepting any job offer before you graduate. Have a paid internship that leads to a full-time job. Why should that be any different than have an NIL that leads to a full-time job?

People have a hard time getting past the propaganda the NCAA has pushed for its entire existence that there is a purity to adults profitting from the toil of minors. You have to live a particularly naive existence if you believe when Nick Saban, he of the 8 year $86 million contract plus Aflac commercials, preaches the virtues of being a student athlete or the vices of transferring to another school to get a shot at the NFL rather than sit on his bench so he can stockpile talent.

So NCAA athletes should be able to enter the draft (like hockey) and also sign guaranteed professional contracts with an NIL portion and then paid competition that kicks in once they turn pro? 

[NJDan 1,059]

3 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

So NCAA athletes should be able to enter the draft (like hockey) and also sign guaranteed professional contracts with an NIL portion and then paid competition that kicks in once they turn pro? 

You have always been allowed to be a pro in sports other than you play in college. A bunch of college football players (Elway was one) have played pro baseball in the summer.

[Billyhoyle 2,469]

4 minutes ago, NJDan said:

But in this case WWE is not a sport at all. It's scripted entertainment. So it's like Gable getting a job acting in a play.

And1/Harlem globetrotters is entertainment and not a competition. Gymnastics performances are scripted. Should these also be allowed by NCAA athletes? 

[NJDan 1,059]

3 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

And1/Harlem globetrotters is entertainment and not a competition. Gymnastics performances are scripted. Should these also be allowed by NCAA athletes? 

Globetrotters-- yes, I think. Gymnastics are routines. But there is no script determining who wins.