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1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

I'm not denying that there have been severe adverse events from the vaccine, but the chances of that are far less likely than the same thing happening from covid especially for anyone over about 30 or so.

Cox may be an exception, but he is also 26 and one of the best athletes in the world, Howe and Kennedy are 32-33 year old coaches, they are at greater risk than Cox.   I do agree with Fletcher's post above, the bigger issue for the school/team is them having a higher chance of spreading it to the team.   But also want to be clear that while yes, they are still at "low risk" from covid, I wouldn't call it "near zero."

i don't get out of bed unless the risk is "near zero" myself...plus your argument is based on the idea that the team getting shut down cause a 20 year old got covid is valid....

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Just now, hammerlockthree said:

tyrannical governments are. End of Story. 

Don't me simplistic about other peoples opinions. 

Vaccines are not a slippery slope to authoritarianism. There is literally no precedent for that. 

Vaccines arent dangerous dude. I seriously question Howe and Kennedys ability to do a simple cost benefit analysis.

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1 minute ago, Fletcher said:

My point has nothing to do with car accidents - that was JRoss's aside. My argument is we shouldn't look at the risk of dying from covid, when the real risk is catching it & spreading it to the NU wrestling team. Read more carefully before calling other people dumb.

I don't have to that's a dumb perspective.

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11 minutes ago, hammerlockthree said:

I had covid, and didn't get pneumonia....

Is that how diseases work now? you get two at a time?

Clearly you're not very familiar with pneumonia.

And amazingly, covid doesn't effect everyone in the same way.   Crazy that it's been 18 months and people still say stuff like this...

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Just now, Drake_Mallard said:

Vaccines are not a slippery slope to authoritarianism. There is literally no precedent for that. 

Vaccines arent dangerous dude. I seriously question Howe and Kennedys ability to do a simple cost benefit analysis.

I agree with the second part, i'm vaccinated...but if you think you should be able to force people to do it you are authoritarian in nature. I'm an individualist. 

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1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

Clearly you're not very familiar with pneumonia.

And amazingly, covid doesn't effect everyone in the same way.   Crazy that it's been 18 months and people still say stuff like this...

so base general policy on your anecdotal nonsense.....sounds brilliant!

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5 minutes ago, hammerlockthree said:

i don't get out of bed unless the risk is "near zero" myself...plus your argument is based on the idea that the team getting shut down cause a 20 year old got covid is valid....

I don't think it's necessarily about the risk of the team getting shut down.   More like Ryan Deakin not being able to wrestle at NCAA's.   Or are you saying they should be able to wrestle even after a positive test?

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35 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

why would you choose to work remotely?   Or are you saying 0.02% (for 30-39 year olds such as Howe and Kennedy) is near zero but 0.06% (for a 40-49 year old such as yourself) isn't?

Had no choice about working remotely.  I have never once been concerned about getting Covid or the impact on me or my family from having gotten in.  Nobody I talk with has voiced concerned about going back to office because of Covid.  Many already wanted to work remote and now that they have it, have zero desire to return.  My group of 80 have over 90% vote to indefinitely work remote and come to the office 1-2x monthly.  They are concerned about losing hours of their day with commute. 

Yes folks in the 40x and under group are at near-zero risk.  Those coaches, me, my kids...

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2 minutes ago, jross said:

Had no choice about working remotely.  I have never once been concerned about getting Covid or the impact on me or my family from having gotten in.  Nobody I talk with has voiced concerned about going back to office because of Covid.  Many already wanted to work remote and now that they have it, have zero desire to return.  My group of 80 have over 90% vote to indefinitely work remote and come to the office 1-2x monthly.  They are concerned about losing hours of their day with commute. 

Yes folks in the 40x and under group are at near-zero risk.  Those coaches, me, my kids...

This is your earlier quote.  Sounds like you're backtracking:

5 hours ago, jross said:

But if you told me that 1 to 10 of every 5000 of my peers are going to die unless we work remote... I'm going to work remote. 

 

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1 minute ago, hammerlockthree said:

I'm an individualist. 

How far you willing to go with that? Should my neighbor have the right to set my house on fire? Are the laws against arson totalitarian because we just wont let a pyro be himself?

Its always a give and take; not all or nothing. People have the right to not get vaccinated. They dont have a right to have a job. Telling people they have a choice, even though they may not like the options is not authoritarianism. I dont lose sleep over idiots like these two

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12 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I'm not denying that there have been severe adverse events from the vaccine, but the chances of that are far less likely than the same thing happening from covid especially for anyone over about 30 or so.

Cox may be an exception, but he is also 26 and one of the best athletes in the world, Howe and Kennedy are 32-33 year old coaches, they are at greater risk than Cox.   I do agree with Fletcher's post above, the bigger issue for the school/team is them having a higher chance of spreading it to the team.   But also want to be clear that while yes, they are still at "low risk" from covid, I wouldn't call it "near zero."

What is near zero for you? 

Why the hypocrisy in mandates?  The flu is likely more dangerous to kids than covid.  

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4 minutes ago, Drake_Mallard said:

How far you willing to go with that? Should my neighbor have the right to set my house on fire? Are the laws against arson totalitarian because we just wont let a pyro be himself?

Its always a give and take; not all or nothing. People have the right to not get vaccinated. They dont have a right to have a job. Telling people they have a choice, even though they may not like the options is not authoritarianism. I dont lose sleep over idiots like these two

you are making some sense I am just down the spectrum from you. 

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11 minutes ago, hammerlockthree said:

what %? 

legit question.

According to the CDC, over half of all deaths "involving" covid also "involved" pneumonia - https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

Note, this does not mean that what normally would have been a pneumonia death was "marked as covid," since flu/pneumonia deaths stayed consistent vs. prior years - https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2778234

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1 minute ago, hammerlockthree said:

you are making some sense I am just down the spectrum from you. 

And I hear that arguement. I get the idea that we dont want the government stepping in on individual rights... but unfortunately rights of some butt up against the rights of others and our leaders have to decide. What really isnt being discussed enough? Our economy. Yes, we need to protect the at-risk people, but I believe the recent push is to protect our economy so we can open up 100%. Unvaccinated people hold this back. Its interesting because it seems that parties have flipped on this one. 

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1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

According to the CDC, over half of all deaths "involving" covid also "involved" pneumonia - https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

Note, this does not mean that what normally would have been a pneumonia death was "marked as covid," since flu/pneumonia deaths stayed consistent vs. prior years - https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2778234

Info appreciated, I don't trust the CDC at all, but going forward I'll keep that idea in mind. 

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8 minutes ago, jross said:

What is near zero for you? 

Why the hypocrisy in mandates?  The flu is likely more dangerous to kids than covid.  

I don't really agree with the mandates, and I also think confirmed prior infection within ~6-9 months should suffice for any mandates.  But I think there are multiple reasons that Howe & Kennedy should want to get vaccinated regardless of the mandate.

Why are you talking about kids?   I've specifically said college students might actually have an argument against the risk/benefit profile of the vaccine.  But 32-33 year olds don't.

As far as "near zero risk," I'd go back to your earlier quote.   I'd say the 0-19 is "near zero risk," but everything above that isn't.   And again those numbers are just the risk based on those that have been infected so far, you probably need to at least double that risk especially if we're talking about the risk to an unvaccinated person.

5 hours ago, jross said:

Fixed the numbers (pop, deaths) on this.  From one angle, a 0.02% or 0.06% chance of death from Covid seems like nothing.  But if you told me that 1 to 10 of every 5000 of my peers are going to die unless we work remote... I'm going to work remote.  If you forced me to come to the office and either test weekly or vaccinate, I'd say those are fair options.  

Age 2019 Pop (thousands) Covid
Deaths
Covid
Death %
Survivor:Dead Ratio
0-19 81,624 439 0.001% 185932:1
20-29 44,531 3212 0.007% 13864:1
30-39 43,375 9240 0.021% 4694:1
40-49 39,929 23501 0.059% 1699:1
50-64 62,110 110689 0.178% 561:1
65-74 31,487 147568 0.469% 213:1
75-84 15,407 176763 1.147% 87:1
85+ 5,893 187342 3.179% 31:1
Total 324,356 658754 0.203% 492:1

 

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12 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

This is your earlier quote.  Sounds like you're backtracking:

I did backtrack with more thought. 

There are 20K+ people at my company.  The numbers say that 16 people could die from Covid if we all worked in office together.  16 people is a scary large number against the small number of people I hold dear.  I don't think about 16 in 20K; I think about 16 in 100.  It tugs emotion from the right side of my brain.

But use that left side of the brain.  More than 16 people of the 20K die annual anyways and I don't give it a second thought. 

People die from cancer, accidents, drugs, flu, suicide, etc. every day.   No I know is trying to ban driving because of the risks.  No one is mandating flu vaccines.  There are stories to tell and while every life does matter, ultimately society has decided that it values freedom over the cost of harm from eating fast food, drugs, driving, physical sports, sex, and skipping the flu vaccination.  

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