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4 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I don't really agree with the mandates, and I also think confirmed prior infection within ~6-9 months should suffice for any mandates.  But I think there are multiple reasons that Howe & Kennedy should want to get vaccinated regardless of the mandate.

Why are you talking about kids?   I've specifically said college students might actually have an argument against the risk/benefit profile of the vaccine.  But 32-33 year olds don't.

As far as "near zero risk," I'd go back to your earlier quote.   I'd say the 0-19 is "near zero risk," but everything above that isn't.   And again those numbers are just the risk based on those that have been infected so far, you probably need to at least double that risk especially if we're talking about the risk to an unvaccinated person.

Mandates are not cool; great we can be friends.
Why talking about kids.  College students are kids to me that have near-zero risk from Covid harm.
Thanks for sharing.  We have a different tolerance for risk.

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1 minute ago, jross said:

Mandates are not cool; great we can be friends.
Why talking about kids.  College students are kids to me that have near-zero risk from Covid harm.
Thanks for sharing.  We have a different tolerance for risk.

Even less risk from a vaccine.

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2 minutes ago, jross said:

Mandates are not cool; great we can be friends.
Why talking about kids.  College students are kids to me that have near-zero risk from Covid harm.
Thanks for sharing.  We have a different tolerance for risk.

Mandates have always existed. Why is this particular mandate so problematic?

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Is there a higher safety risk that wrestling coaches and athletes will be injured from wrestling itself than covid?  

How does the Covid mandate compare to the public smoking ban?  Is the public smoking ban authoritarian and somehow okay because the vast majority agreed with it?  Whereas with Covid vaxx , the mandate opinion is a closer split.

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8 minutes ago, jross said:

Is there a higher safety risk that wrestling coaches and athletes will be injured from wrestling itself than covid?  

Probably, but I bet if they could take a shot that would make them ~85% less likely to get injured, with a side effect profile that wasn't nearly as bad as actually getting injured, that the overwhelming majority would.

 

 

And Drake...don't go too far off the rails please

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7 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Mandates have always existed. Why is this particular mandate so problematic?

Vaccines are good.  Medicine is good.  The politics and media bias from the past four years has been awful.  Lack of trust in the news is further degraded with constantly changing recommendations on Covid information.  Is it airborne or not?  Does a mask help or not?  Is it two weeks or two years?  Does the vaccine cause no harm or are there side effects?  The UK defined COVID deaths as one where the deceased was covid + in the previous 60 days OR after 60 days if marked on the death certificate.  Popular covid tests were later found as not to be trustworthy.  The fast pass FDA discussion in public did not discuss side effects; "let's discuss offline and get this approved for emergency use" was the message.  The vaccine was a new technology without long term studies.  The CDC published there were no long term vaccine effects when the people in real life are seeing vaccine effects.  People are being forced into decisions where they do not believe the cost is worth the benefit.  People believe they are not at risk and are being coerced into taking an experimental vaxx that could make things worse than if they took no action at all.

TL;DR: No trust.

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10 minutes ago, jross said:

Is there a higher safety risk that wrestling coaches and athletes will be injured from wrestling itself than covid?  

How does the Covid mandate compare to the public smoking ban?  Is the public smoking ban authoritarian and somehow okay because the vast majority agreed with it?  Whereas with Covid vaxx , the mandate opinion is a closer split.

jross - you were doing so well but you're taking a turn for the worse with this recent post:

  • Nobody cares if coaches or wrestlers get injured from wrestling - that's part of the choice they made to wrestle and, MOST importantly, isn't going to spread to other people and risk others lives. The Covid safety problem is much worse because it involves potentially spread to other students, a host of others, and contributes to the overall spread. All bad.
  • The public smoking ban is similar in that non-smokers don't want to have to breath that crap, wash it out of their clothes, and potentially get lung cancer because a few individualists think it's OK to make choices that impact others in a negative way. The vast majority, including nearly all the smokers I know, agree with the smoking ban because it generally eliminates the impact the smokers' choice has on non-smokers. In other words, non-smokers don't have to be concerned for their health due to smokers' poor choices.
  • I'll add a 3rd one. Drunk drivers. Some are habitual and multiple time repeat offenders. They believe its their right as individuals to drink as much as they want and drive. The problem is that they can harm and sometimes even kill people. What are the statistics? Actually pretty low. Drunk drivers are all over the roads on late Fri and Sat nights, many can go years without getting pulled over or crashing. But the statistics aren't the issue. Even though the percentages are low, it's the fact that drunk drivers do kill people.

If anti-vaxxers weren't negatively impacting others in a clear and obvious way, then they wouldn't be a problem. But the unfortunate fact is that they are. And people die because of it.

 

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1 minute ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

If anti-vaxxers weren't negatively impacting others in a clear and obvious way, then they wouldn't be a problem. But the unfortunate fact is that they are. And people die because of it.

This is the answer I was looking for.  The covid data does not show major risk to wrestlers.  The data reflects the risk is to the elderly and the messaging should consistently hammer the butterfly effect.  Effective advertising might say "Don't mess with mama.  Covid is not likely to cause lasting issues for healthy and fit individuals under 49 years of age.  Covid kills 1 of every 90 infected parents over 65 years of age.   Save a life.  Be a hero.  Get vaccinated!"
 

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This is the answer I was looking for.  The covid data does not show major risk to wrestlers.  The data reflects the risk is to the elderly and the messaging should consistently hammer the butterfly effect.  Effective advertising might say "Don't mess with mama.  Covid is not likely to cause lasting issues for healthy and fit individuals under 49 years of age.  Covid kills 1 of every 90 infected parents over 65 years of age.   Save a life.  Be a hero.  Get vaccinated!"
 

Huh? A recent Tour de France winner (a person on a completely different fitness level than the average college wrestler, or coach) had Covid and has had lasting issues with his lungs and heart.

You keep on painting this as if it’s only a life vs. death issue. Plenty of people recover and have long term health problems afterwards.


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6 hours ago, jross said:

This is the answer I was looking for.  The covid data does not show major risk to wrestlers.  The data reflects the risk is to the elderly and the messaging should consistently hammer the butterfly effect.  Effective advertising might say "Don't mess with mama.  Covid is not likely to cause lasting issues for healthy and fit individuals under 49 years of age.  Covid kills 1 of every 90 infected parents over 65 years of age.   Save a life.  Be a hero.  Get vaccinated!"
 

Even if that's not "the messaging," I think most people realize that.   Do you think that messaging would have had any impact on guys like Ben Askren, Gabe Dean, Howe & Kennedy getting the vaccine?

Instead, when that is brought up the new argument (which even you have used) seems to be "but it doesn't work to prevent infection!"   Except it does.   Most vaccines aren't 100% effective.
 

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