Major Kong 85 Report post Posted September 20, 2021 5 minutes ago, Fletcher said: Been practicing law for 25 yrs. This is wrong. Also the law schools and med schools very much care where you did your undergrad. Not law schools. It's virtually all LSAT and GPA. With the same LSAT, A 3.9 from Oklahoma State beats a 3.8 from NU. Doesn't seem right, but it's the reality Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ionel 2,437 Report post Posted September 20, 2021 5 minutes ago, Fletcher said: Been practicing law for 25 yrs. This is wrong. Also the law schools and med schools very much care where you did your undergrad. Maybe in certain thin markets but generally your 2nd and 3rd employer care about what and how you did in your 1st and 2nd job respectively not where you completed your undergrad. Likewise PhD program acceptance is about how you did in Master &/or standardized tests not your undergrad (unless of course straight undergrad to PhD). Education is about what you learned and how you use it not just where you got it. 1 Husker_Du reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NJDan 1,062 Report post Posted September 20, 2021 25 minutes ago, Lurker said: Agreed. NCAA wrestling champion is basically irrelevant on a resume. Are you serious or being facetious? While it's true you would not hire a surgeon for that reason. But for many many businesses-- anything involving sales, finance or anything where proven achievement or determination-- that line would be a huge benefit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NJDan 1,062 Report post Posted September 20, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Major Kong said: Not law schools. It's virtually all LSAT and GPA. With the same LSAT, A 3.9 from Oklahoma State beats a 3.8 from NU. Doesn't seem right, but it's the reality This is insane. I went to an Ivy League law school. We had ZERO from OSU or OU or any Big 12 school. The vast majority went to top undergrad schools. But this is not the issue. We were talking about whether elite athletic success is helpful on a resume. I believe it is. Employers who like sports and respect athletes-- which is many on them-- will like to surround themselves with good athletes. That's not to say they will hire an idiot who was a varsity athlete. But being a varsity athlete-- to say nothing of an NCAA champion-- is a big leg up. Edited September 20, 2021 by NJDan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Major Kong 85 Report post Posted September 20, 2021 Well, not sure when you went, but google it if you don't believe me. There is of course some correlation between high LSAT scores and elite undergrad schools. My son is at HLS now and he experienced this first hand - his top 3 undergrad meant very little - it is almost entirely a numbers game today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SignificantACCBias 81 Report post Posted September 20, 2021 As usual, the truth lies somewhere in the middle...as many are saying a NU degree is unquestionably more valuable than a OSU degree. A "wrestling degree" from John Smith is also unquestionably more valuable than a wrestling degree from Matt Storniolo. I think this shows CY fully (as fully as possible as a teenager, at least) committing to a career in wrestling instead of hedging his bets with a better degree from (all due respect) a lesser wrestling school. It's a gamble, if he doesn't break through and make it as a top senior level athlete then this was probably not a good move and he might wish he had the better degree. If he makes it, then it was a good move. 1 Major Kong reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ionel 2,437 Report post Posted September 20, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, NJDan said: This is insane. I went to an Ivy League law school. We had ZERO from OSU or OU or any Big 12 school. The vast majority went to top undergrad schools. Is Harvard a decent law school? Best man in my wedding was from small town western Nebraska, Nebraska (Big 8) undergrad ag major aced LSAT, you'll find his photo same yearbook page as BO, grad photo with 4 friends included current Supreme, top national law firm. There are plenty of Harvard, Columbia grads who didn't pan out just like plenty of small town folks who did well on ACT/SAT/LSAT/GMAT & did well from a lower ranked school. But your going to hear more about the big school big city etc folks cause larger population and numbers. I could give numerous specific examples. PS: Harvard didn't make he what he is, he is the same guy shaped by his experiences, jobs, education, work ethic etc he had pre Harvard law. Edited September 20, 2021 by ionel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ionel 2,437 Report post Posted September 20, 2021 14 minutes ago, SignificantACCBias said: As usual, the truth lies somewhere in the middle...as many are saying a NU degree is unquestionably more valuable than a OSU degree. T. Boone Pickens would disagree. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Billyhoyle 2,472 Report post Posted September 20, 2021 Here’s the question-knowing that there will only be more vaccine mandates on the way for everything from travel to restaurants, are these two coaches basically done with the sport? Who is going to hire somebody so stubborn who won’t make such an easy decision in the best interest of the team? If so, it’s a sad turn of events, all because of fear of a vaccine that has proven to be one of the most safe ever developed. 2 Major Kong and Elevator reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NJDan 1,062 Report post Posted September 20, 2021 22 minutes ago, ionel said: Is Harvard a decent law school? Best man in my wedding was from small town western Nebraska, Nebraska (Big 8) undergrad ag major aced LSAT, you'll find his photo same yearbook page as BO, grad photo with 4 friends included current Supreme, top national law firm. There are plenty of Harvard, Columbia grads who didn't pan out just like plenty of small town folks who did well on ACT/SAT/LSAT/GMAT & did well from a lower ranked school. But your going to hear more about the big school big city etc folks cause larger population and numbers. I could give numerous specific examples. PS: Harvard didn't make he what he is, he is the same guy shaped by his experiences, jobs, education, work ethic etc he had pre Harvard law. That you know one person from an ag major who went to Harvard Law shows nothing. Ask your friend. Or ask anyone in the world who knows anything about law schools or statistics. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ionel 2,437 Report post Posted September 20, 2021 You just said "ZERO" from any Big 12 were there. I just gave one example and could give many others of why you don't have to go there but nothing wrong with that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fletcher 1,094 Report post Posted September 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Major Kong said: Not law schools. It's virtually all LSAT and GPA. With the same LSAT, A 3.9 from Oklahoma State beats a 3.8 from NU. Doesn't seem right, but it's the reality This statement could not be more wrong with regard to top law schools. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fletcher 1,094 Report post Posted September 20, 2021 35 minutes ago, ionel said: T. Boone Pickens would disagree. LOL. I know someone who survived a car crash because he didn't have a seatbelt on...therefore, no one should wear seatbelts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Major Kong 85 Report post Posted September 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, Fletcher said: This statement could not be more wrong with regard to top law schools. This is getting ridiculous. Guess what this list is: Alabama State University Amherst College Arizona State University Bais Medrash Ateres Shlomo Barnard College Boston College Boston University Bowdoin College Brandeis University Brigham Young University Brock University Brown University California State University, Long Beach Calvin College Carleton College Carnegie Mellon University Chapman University China Foreign Affairs University Colgate University College of William and Mary Colorado College Columbia University, Columbia College Columbia University, School of General Studies Cornell University CUNY Baruch College CUNY Hunter College Curtis Institute of Music Dalhousie University Dartmouth College Denison University Dickinson College Duke University Eastman School of Music Emory University Ewha Womans University Florida Atlantic University Florida International University Florida State University Fordham University Franklin & Marshall College Fudan University George Washington University Georgetown University Georgia State University Gettysburg College Hamilton College Hamline University Hampton University Harvard College Howard University Instituto Tecnológico Autónomo de México Johns Hopkins University Louisiana State University Loyola University Chicago Marquette University Massachusetts Institute of Technology McMaster University Mesivta Torah Vodaath Seminary Middlebury College Morehouse College New York University Abu Dhabi New York University College of Arts & Sciences New York University Gallatin School of Individualized Study New York University Stern School of Business Northeastern University Northwestern University The Ohio State University Ohio Wesleyan University Oklahoma State University Panjab University Peking University Pennsylvania State University Pepperdine University Pomona College Princeton University Recinto Universitario de Mayagüez Rhodes College Rice University Rutgers University Scripps College Skidmore College Spelman College St. Mary’s College of Maryland St. Olaf College Stanford University Sungkyunkwan University SUNY Albany SUNY Binghamton SUNY Buffalo SUNY Maritime College Swarthmore College Temple University Texas A&M University Torah Temimah Talmudical Seminary Tsinghua University Tufts University Tulane University Union College United States Air Force Academy United States Coast Guard Academy United States Military Academy United States Naval Academy Universidad Autónoma de Madrid The University of Alabama University of Alberta The University of Arizona The University of British Columbia University of Calgary University of California, Berkeley University of California, Davis University of California, Irvine University of California, Los Angeles University of California, San Diego University of Cambridge The University of Chicago University of Colorado Boulder University of Delaware University of Florida University of Georgia University of Houston University of Idaho University of Illinois Chicago University of Illinois Urbana–Champaign University of Indianapolis University of Kansas University of London University of Louisville University of Maryland University of Massachusetts Amherst University of Miami University of Michigan University of Minnesota University of Mississippi University of Nebraska–Lincoln University of Nevada, Las Vegas University of New Hampshire The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill University of Notre Dame The University of Oklahoma University of Oregon University of Ottawa University of Pennsylvania University of Pittsburgh University of Redlands University of Rhode Island University of Rochester University of South Carolina University of Southern California University of Sulaimani The University of Texas at Austin The University of Texas at Dallas The University of Texas at San Antonio University of Toronto University of Vermont The University of Virginia University of Wisconsin–Madison University of Wisconsin–Stevens Point University of Wyoming University of Washington University of Waterloo Vanderbilt University Vassar College Villanova University Wake Forest University Washington and Lee University Washington University in St. Louis Wesleyan University Wheaton College Williams College Yale College Yeshiva University Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobDole 1,192 Report post Posted September 20, 2021 1 minute ago, Major Kong said: This is getting ridiculous. Guess what this list is: Alabama State University Amherst College Arizona State University Bais Medrash Ateres Shlomo Barnard College Boston College Boston University Bowdoin College Brandeis University Brigham Young University Brock University Brown University California State University, Long Beach Calvin College Carleton College Carnegie Mellon University Chapman University China Foreign Affairs University Colgate University College of William and Mary Colorado College Columbia University, Columbia College Columbia University, School of General Studies Cornell University CUNY Baruch College CUNY Hunter College Curtis Institute of Music Dalhousie University Dartmouth College Denison University Dickinson College Duke University Eastman School of Music Emory University Ewha Womans University Florida Atlantic University Florida International University Florida State University Fordham University Franklin & Marshall College Fudan University George Washington University Georgetown University Georgia State University Gettysburg College Hamilton College Hamline University Hampton University Harvard College Howard University Instituto Tecnológico Autónomo de México Johns Hopkins University Louisiana State University Loyola University Chicago Marquette University Massachusetts Institute of Technology McMaster University Mesivta Torah Vodaath Seminary Middlebury College Morehouse College New York University Abu Dhabi New York University College of Arts & Sciences New York University Gallatin School of Individualized Study New York University Stern School of Business Northeastern University Northwestern University The Ohio State University Ohio Wesleyan University Oklahoma State University Panjab University Peking University Pennsylvania State University Pepperdine University Pomona College Princeton University Recinto Universitario de Mayagüez Rhodes College Rice University Rutgers University Scripps College Skidmore College Spelman College St. Mary’s College of Maryland St. Olaf College Stanford University Sungkyunkwan University SUNY Albany SUNY Binghamton SUNY Buffalo SUNY Maritime College Swarthmore College Temple University Texas A&M University Torah Temimah Talmudical Seminary Tsinghua University Tufts University Tulane University Union College United States Air Force Academy United States Coast Guard Academy United States Military Academy United States Naval Academy Universidad Autónoma de Madrid The University of Alabama University of Alberta The University of Arizona The University of British Columbia University of Calgary University of California, Berkeley University of California, Davis University of California, Irvine University of California, Los Angeles University of California, San Diego University of Cambridge The University of Chicago University of Colorado Boulder University of Delaware University of Florida University of Georgia University of Houston University of Idaho University of Illinois Chicago University of Illinois Urbana–Champaign University of Indianapolis University of Kansas University of London University of Louisville University of Maryland University of Massachusetts Amherst University of Miami University of Michigan University of Minnesota University of Mississippi University of Nebraska–Lincoln University of Nevada, Las Vegas University of New Hampshire The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill University of Notre Dame The University of Oklahoma University of Oregon University of Ottawa University of Pennsylvania University of Pittsburgh University of Redlands University of Rhode Island University of Rochester University of South Carolina University of Southern California University of Sulaimani The University of Texas at Austin The University of Texas at Dallas The University of Texas at San Antonio University of Toronto University of Vermont The University of Virginia University of Wisconsin–Madison University of Wisconsin–Stevens Point University of Wyoming University of Washington University of Waterloo Vanderbilt University Vassar College Villanova University Wake Forest University Washington and Lee University Washington University in St. Louis Wesleyan University Wheaton College Williams College Yale College Yeshiva University Schools you got rejected by? 3 TexRef, flyingcement and Ohio Elite reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Major Kong 85 Report post Posted September 20, 2021 6 minutes ago, BobDole said: Schools you got rejected by? Close, but I got into a couple! It's the undergrad schools of this years 1ls at Harvard Law. 1 1 Elevator and flyingcement reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ionel 2,437 Report post Posted September 20, 2021 8 minutes ago, Fletcher said: LOL. I know someone who survived a car crash because he didn't have a seatbelt on...therefore, no one should wear seatbelts. ahh ... T Boone was just lucky to make a $B+ ... is this NU logic? ;) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NJDan 1,062 Report post Posted September 20, 2021 15 minutes ago, Fletcher said: This statement could not be more wrong with regard to top law schools. It is certainly very wrong, but could be even more wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fletcher 1,094 Report post Posted September 20, 2021 4 minutes ago, ionel said: ahh ... T Boone was just lucky to make a $B+ ... is this NU logic? ;) The NU logic is that making your point via outliers (the one billionaire from OSU; the one hick at HLS) is stupid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Major Kong 85 Report post Posted September 20, 2021 5 minutes ago, NJDan said: It is certainly very wrong, but could be even more wrong. Please, do some research. See what people who know (admissions people) say. At most, an elite undergrad is worth a .1 gpa bump or a couple LSAT points. A 3.9 from Rutgers is better than a 3.75 from U Chicago, all else being equal. There is no confusion about this among counselors, admission officers or the students applying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fletcher 1,094 Report post Posted September 20, 2021 12 minutes ago, Major Kong said: Close, but I got into a couple! It's the undergrad schools of this years 1ls at Harvard Law. Unless HLS told you everyone's LSAT and GPA, this doesn't prove your (erroneous) point. Quality of undergraduate school is a big factor in admission decisions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Poopy butthole 307 Report post Posted September 20, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Fletcher said: Been practicing law for 25 yrs. This is wrong. Also the law schools and med schools very much care where you did your undergrad. Been practicing medicine for 3 years. I interviewed for 10 locations before settling on my current one. My residency and, to a lesser extent, medical school got brought up at each interview. Where I went to undergrad? Only made it into the conversation once, and that was only because the department head had a daughter currently enrolled there. Undergrad can certainly have an impact on one's chances into getting into a professional degree program. My point was that where you get your professional degree, your performance at that school, and the various research and internship opportunities you pursue while enrolled at the professional degree program weighs much more heavily during the job search than where you went for undergrad. This was mine and my cadre's experience when applying for residencies and, much later, for locums and permanent job placements. If it is vastly different in other fields, then I overspoke Edited September 20, 2021 by Mr. Poopy butthole Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Poopy butthole 307 Report post Posted September 20, 2021 (edited) double post Edited September 20, 2021 by Mr. Poopy butthole Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fletcher 1,094 Report post Posted September 20, 2021 1 hour ago, NJDan said: Are you serious or being facetious? While it's true you would not hire a surgeon for that reason. But for many many businesses-- anything involving sales, finance or anything where proven achievement or determination-- that line would be a huge benefit. I actually considered taking varsity wrestling off my resume out of concern employers would think I got in thru lower academic standards for athletes. 1 Lurker reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NJDan 1,062 Report post Posted September 20, 2021 4 minutes ago, Major Kong said: Please, do some research. See what people who know (admissions people) say. At most, an elite undergrad is worth a .1 gpa bump or a couple LSAT points. A 3.9 from Rutgers is better than a 3.75 from U Chicago, all else being equal. There is no confusion about this among counselors, admission officers or the students applying. You say, "A 3.9 from Rutgers is better than a 3.75 from U Chicago, all else being equal." But the point you refuse to understand is that all else is not equal because the Rutgers and U Chicago are not equal. Rutgers may put a kid or two per year into Harvard Law. Chicago and other top schools will put many. That said, being an All American in any sport will, I think, be worth quite a bit. Even tho grad schools have no sports teams, they do respect achievement outside the classroom. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
