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Just now, Fletcher said:

Vaxxed people are much less likely to get covid, but not 100% protected. So unvaxxed coaches bring it into the room, infect vaxxed wrestlers, who don't get nearly as sick as the unvaxxed but still can test positive. If this happens right before Big Tens, then the coaches have basically ruined the season for their wrestlers.

Also presumably some coaches and faculty have unvaccinated children 

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2 minutes ago, jross said:

As a hiring manager, your college athletic experience jumps off the resume.  It says "I outworked others to deliver achieve success AND I will do the same in this job."  You could be a champion chess player, gamer, knitter, or whatever.  Mention it in your achievements.  

Plus it generally gives you something cool to talk about with higher ups right off the bat

Edited by pawrestler

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On 9/19/2021 at 10:16 AM, Katie said:

My shock announcement was going to be that you were capable of writing an intelligible sentence. But I’ll have to cancel it for the time being. 

A typo due to auto correct is all you got?

The real answer was, no it's not news about you being brainwashed, it has been known for a long time.

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11 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

I don't know.  I have co-workers who have said the same thing.  It doesn't mean you're a troll.  You just might be uneducated and/or listen to certain talking points.  A friend of mine is very educated.  Has a JD.  Also says the m-RNA vaccines are not vaccines.  Apparently some people think you need dead (or living) virus to officially make it a vaccine?  I'm pretty sure that isn't a qualification.

Meanwhile as I am wasting time on this site over the past couple hours, my daughter has informed me that her boyfriends father has succumbed to covid after a couple months of hospitalization.  An otherwise healthy 52 year old man. (and no, I'm not making this up)

I agree - and that's my exact point. The fact that the Covid vaccine is a real vaccine is easy to confirm with a few minutes, and a small amount of desire.

There is no doubt that misinformation is being spread in abundance:

  • Some may believe this stuff without bothering to make any effort to fact check. They just don't know any better because they don't try. That's unfortunate. Doesn't make them trolls.
  • Others spread this misinformation further, and argue against facts that are clear and readily available. They care zero about the truth, and are only agitators. They are trolls.

Antitroll2828 is the 2nd one, a troll.

 

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1 minute ago, Fletcher said:

Vaxxed people are much less likely to get covid

What makes this hard is CDC information saying one thing that is countered by the large number of breakthrough infections of fully vaccinated people.  My friends, family, and the country of Israel are direct evidence.

I am vaxxed.  I know two people personally that have died from covid (both in 70s).  I know multiple people that have lost their sense of smell (30-40s).  There are many cases of people getting seriously messed up from the vaccine itself, not reported, including death.  My friend has had covid twice and cannot safely get the vaccine in the near future due to the antibodies already in his body.  He is set to get fired from his government job w/o temporary exemption consideration given a new Biden mandate.  There is to much grey information for coaches and my friend to lose their job.

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1 minute ago, jross said:

What makes this hard is CDC information saying one thing that is countered by the large number of breakthrough infections of fully vaccinated people.  My friends, family, and the country of Israel are direct evidence.

I am vaxxed.  I know two people personally that have died from covid (both in 70s).  I know multiple people that have lost their sense of smell (30-40s).  There are many cases of people getting seriously messed up from the vaccine itself, not reported, including death.  My friend has had covid twice and cannot safely get the vaccine in the near future due to the antibodies already in his body.  He is set to get fired from his government job w/o temporary exemption consideration given a new Biden mandate.  There is to much grey information for coaches and my friend to lose their job.

There is so much wrong info. in this post, I don't know which part to correct first.

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15 minutes ago, Fletcher said:

There is so much wrong info. in this post, I don't know which part to correct first.

I'll bite.  

  1. Fact: people have had side effects from the vax, including death
  2. Fact: vax side effects are not always reported
  3. Fact: fully vaxxed people are getting breakthrough infections
  4. Opinion: too much grey information to fire people

And folks need to stop talking about protecting the vaccinated from the unvaccinated.  People are too big of idiots to understand the nuance.  It makes the speaker come off like the idiot.  Edit: The CDC guidance changes and causes mistrust.  It might be good for today and it will be wrong for tomorrow.

Edited by jross
clarify CDC comment.

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2 minutes ago, jross said:

I'll bite.  

  1. Fact: people have had side effects from the vax, including death
  2. Fact: vax side effects are not always reported
  3. Fact: fully vaxxed people are getting breakthrough infections
  4. Opinion: too much grey information to fire people

And folks need to stop talking about protecting the vaccinated from the unvaccinated.  People are too big of idiots to understand the nuance.  It makes the speaker come off like the idiot.

It's extremely rare for people to have adverse reactions to the vaccine. Breakthru infections were always expected - nobody ever said it was 100% effective.

All in all, this is an overwhelmingly successful vaccine. What we have now is a pandemic of the unvaccinated - over 95% of all deaths and hospitalizations are unvaxxed.

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1 hour ago, AHamilton said:

I know that you didn't call me that.  You were calling someone else that, felch.  I don't like cheapshots.

Great looking dog though.

I'll accept your name-calling as your concession.

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24 minutes ago, Fletcher said:

It's extremely rare for people to have adverse reactions to the vaccine. Breakthru infections were always expected - nobody ever said it was 100% effective.

All in all, this is an overwhelmingly successful vaccine. What we have now is a pandemic of the unvaccinated - over 95% of all deaths and hospitalizations are unvaxxed.

Sure it is extremely rare but it still happens.  Is it ok if only one person out of 10k or 100k die from the vaccine?  What if that one person is someone you know?  My father ended up in the ER from his 2nd shot.  Also the guy next to him (shares a bathroom) at assisted care got they delta 6 mo after all in facility were vaccinated and one in the vacility died from delta.  That said everyone in my family and everyone I know has been vaccinated.  Data shows you can still get it and die if vaccinated but ~10x more likely if not.  :(

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2 hours ago, jross said:

As a hiring manager, your college athletic experience jumps off the resume.  It says "I outworked others to achieve success AND I will do the same in this job."  You could be a champion chess player, gamer, knitter, or whatever.  Mention it in your achievements.  

I have noticed particularly in business development/sales positions in the finance and investment world - wrestlers tend to do very well.  I noticed a disproportionate amount of wrestlers among institutional investment sales folks when I was managing institutional money.  Sometimes you'd be across from someone in a meeting and you can tell by the person's physical confidence.  Other times, they just straight up have cauliflower ear, which is the best giveaway.  

Edited by flyingcement

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4 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

They aren't being fired, they are resigning.  They'll find a job in a red state and be replaced by people who are vaccinated. 

Let it be known that those of who insist they don't have to follow the rules are going to be cross referenced with their opinion of rules in the Cox weigh-in thread.

Those same "red states" also mandate every other vaccine.  It's only  a matter of time before they mandate the covid vaccine as well.  Just look at the push within SEC football to get their entire teams/coaches vaccinated.  Getting the vaccine is in the best interest of the team given the quarantine risk of being unvaccinated and encountering an infected individual.  What happened to the importance of putting the team first? Why would any head coach (other than Tom Ryan) consider hiring an assistant who is not a team player?

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56 minutes ago, ionel said:

Sure it is extremely rare but it still happens.  Is it ok if only one person out of 10k or 100k die from the vaccine?  What if that one person is someone you know?  My father ended up in the ER from his 2nd shot.  Also the guy next to him (shares a bathroom) at assisted care got they delta 6 mo after all in facility were vaccinated and one in the vacility died from delta.  That said everyone in my family and everyone I know has been vaccinated.  Data shows you can still get it and die if vaccinated but ~10x more likely if not.  :(

As of last week, 1 out of every 500 people in the US has died from Covid.

I'd suggest reviewing your statistics carefully. The actual statistics are stunningly clear - they leave very little to argue.

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3 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

As of last week, 1 out of every 500 people in the US has died from Covid.

I'd suggest reviewing your statistics carefully. The actual statistics are stunningly clear - they leave very little to argue.

I'd suggest you slow down and read, i didn't say anything about how many "died from Covid."  

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3 minutes ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

As of last week, 1 out of every 500 people in the US has died from Covid.

I'd suggest reviewing your statistics carefully. The actual statistics are stunningly clear - they leave very little to argue.

I had to do a double take but you're right = 650K is really 0.2% of our population roughly.  

Of course that is independent from the safety of the vaccine itself.  My entire family is vaccinated and would do so again, but we carefully considered the shortened timeline for which regulators were able to review the vaccines.  Extreme circumstances call for tough decision to be made - I wouldn't have taken a vaccine that had been researched for such a short period of time unless we were in some sort of extreme situation like a global pandemic (which damn it - we are).   But I can empathize with those who are fearful (even as I disagree)

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9 minutes ago, flyingcement said:

I had to do a double take but you're right = 650K is really 0.2% of our population roughly.  

Of course that is independent from the safety of the vaccine itself.  My entire family is vaccinated and would do so again, but we carefully considered the shortened timeline for which regulators were able to review the vaccines.  Extreme circumstances call for tough decision to be made - I wouldn't have taken a vaccine that had been researched for such a short period of time unless we were in some sort of extreme situation like a global pandemic (which damn it - we are).   But I can empathize with those who are fearful (even as I disagree)

There's nothing to be empathetic about those who willfully ignore an overwhelming amount of clear and obvious data.  Sure, I understand those who didn't want to be first in line back in December...But at this point we are looking at 6 billion vaccine shots for covid worldwide total (between all vaccines).  Billions of Pfizer/Moderna doses, which are the two safest and  the ones most widely available in the U.S., with only a handful of serious adverse reactions.  People willingly get a colonoscopy at 50+, yet the risk of that procedure is orders of magnitude greater than the covid vaccine, and the risk of death by covid is almost an order of magnitude greater than colon cancer.  

The anti vaxers need to realize that every day, more people are getting vaccinated. The call for mandates will only increase as the number of vaccinated increases, and those like Howe who refuse to put their team first will continue to find themselves unable to work in the sport, which is a shame because he is an outstanding coach.  

Edited by Billyhoyle

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2 hours ago, jross said:

What makes this hard is CDC information saying one thing that is countered by the large number of breakthrough infections of fully vaccinated people.  My friends, family, and the country of Israel are direct evidence.

I am vaxxed.  I know two people personally that have died from covid (both in 70s).  I know multiple people that have lost their sense of smell (30-40s).  There are many cases of people getting seriously messed up from the vaccine itself, not reported, including death.  My friend has had covid twice and cannot safely get the vaccine in the near future due to the antibodies already in his body.  He is set to get fired from his government job w/o temporary exemption consideration given a new Biden mandate.  There is to much grey information for coaches and my friend to lose their job.

Are you really citing a Facebook comments section?

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12 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

There's nothing to be empathetic about those who willfully ignore an overwhelming amount of clear and obvious data.  Sure, I understand those who didn't want to be first in line back in December...But at this point we are looking at 6 billion vaccine shots for covid worldwide total (between all vaccines).  Billions of Pfizer/Moderna doses, which are the two safest and  the ones most widely available in the U.S., with only a handful of serious adverse reactions.  People willingly get a colonoscopy at 50+, yet the risk of that procedure is orders of magnitude greater than the covid vaccine, and the risk of death by covid is almost an order of magnitude greater than colon cancer.  

The anti vaxers need to realize that every day, more people are getting vaccinated. The call for mandates will only increase as the number of vaccinated increases, and those like Howe who refuse to put their team first will continue to find themselves unable to work in the sport, which is a shame because he is an outstanding coach.  

In some respects I hear what you are saying, but as I have gotten older, a little bit of wisdom have been bestowed upon me.  

If you're thinking that shaming someone or "calling them out" will ever yield a productive result, I would challenge you to look at your results thus far. 

I don't ever see it happen.  If your goal is to communicate an important message to someone who doesn't speak the same language as you, the first step is understanding.  That's where I find empathy comes in as a helpful instinct.  If this pandemic came around when I was younger, I might have resisted the vaccine altogether.  I try to think about those sorts of things before I cast judgment.  

 

Edited by flyingcement

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one thing i feel like should be emphasized more is that the main reason to not fear covid (being young and healthy) is 100% the same reason to not fear the covid vaccine. the vaccine is vastly less harmful than covid and we know a vast amount more about the long term affects about the vaccines than we do about covid. 

once that fact is internalized then everything else makes more sense. you're vastly less likely to contract covid, less likely to spread it, less likely to get sick, hospitalized and die, once you get the vaccine.

americans are blessed and lucky to live in a place that produced such a miracle drug in abundance and i'm saddened that more people don't take advantage of that fact. 

i also think that government mandates are unhelpful and should be avoided and also that government mandates stopping private entities from requiring vaccine mandates are even worse.

i don't expect anyone to have their mind changed by this post nor do i have any intention of arguing with someone who wants to challenge anything i said in it. just wanted to contributed my take on this useless thread. appreciate anyone who's made it this far on this post. 

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Just now, flyingcement said:

In some respects I hear what you are saying, but as I have gotten older, a little bit of wisdom have been bestowed upon me.  

If your thinking that shaming someone or "calling them out" will ever yield a productive result, I would challenge you to look at your results thus far. 

I don't ever see it happen.  If your goal is to communicate an important message to someone who doesn't speak the same language as you, the first step is understanding.  That's where I find empathy comes in as a helpful instinct.  If this pandemic came around when I was younger, I might have resisted the vaccine altogether.  I try to think about those sorts of things before I cast judgment.  

 

I'm not shaming them or trying to convince them to get the vaccine-they've made it clear that no amount of logic will accomplish that.  I honestly don't really care that much that there are people out there who are too foolish to accept such overwhelming data.  It just sucks for them to not be able to go in places like restaurants, work at any company with >100 employees, etc, etc.  It's a ridiculous thing to quit your job over when these people have likely taken every other mandated vaccine.  It's like we've forgotten about the huge list of vaccines we all took as children and account for the lack of Mumps everywhere.  So I'm not really shaming them, but rather observing in awe at their poor/lack of team-focused decision making.  

 

One other, unrelated point-I think Willie did an outstanding job reporting this.  It absolutely is huge news. Very rarely will somebody say, "big news tomorrow" and have that news really be significant.  This is much bigger than some recruiting decision.  So yeah, it's easy to criticize him, but this was a legit scoop.  

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8 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

I'm not shaming them or trying to convince them to get the vaccine-they've made it clear that no amount of logic will accomplish that.  I honestly don't really care that much that there are people out there who are too foolish to accept such overwhelming data.  It just sucks for them to not be able to go in places like restaurants, work at any company with >100 employees, etc, etc.  It's a ridiculous thing to quit your job over when these people have likely taken every other mandated vaccine.  It's like we've forgotten about the huge list of vaccines we all took as children and account for the lack of Mumps everywhere.  So I'm not really shaming them, but rather observing in awe at their poor/lack of team-focused decision making.  

 

One other, unrelated point-I think Willie did an outstanding job reporting this.  It absolutely is huge news. Very rarely will somebody say, "big news tomorrow" and have that news really be significant.  This is much bigger than some recruiting decision.  So yeah, it's easy to criticize him, but this was a legit scoop.  

Understood I must have crossed my wires or misunderstood you.  I can also relate to the frustration.  It took away many hours of my life trying to convince my ultra conservative parents to get vaccinated.  Ultimately they said they got vaccinated because if we all died from it, they wanted to be dead too.  Different worlds.  

 

And agreed on the scoop by Willie.  Its not a big report in the way we were expecting.  But in other ways, its much bigger.

Edited by flyingcement

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59 minutes ago, ionel said:

I'd suggest you slow down and read, i didn't say anything about how many "died from Covid."  

No, you didn't say anything - but you should have.

The death rate is now over 1 in every 500 people in the US and that is absolutely horrific and climbing.

Maybe you should pick up the pace and think about contributing to solving rather than denying.

Edited by GreatWhiteNorth

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1 hour ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

one thing i feel like should be emphasized more is that the main reason to not fear covid (being young and healthy) is 100% the same reason to not fear the covid vaccine. the vaccine is vastly less harmful than covid and we know a vast amount more about the long term affects about the vaccines than we do about covid. 

once that fact is internalized then everything else makes more sense. you're vastly less likely to contract covid, less likely to spread it, less likely to get sick, hospitalized and die, once you get the vaccine.

americans are blessed and lucky to live in a place that produced such a miracle drug in abundance and i'm saddened that more people don't take advantage of that fact. 

i also think that government mandates are unhelpful and should be avoided and also that government mandates stopping private entities from requiring vaccine mandates are even worse.

i don't expect anyone to have their mind changed by this post nor do i have any intention of arguing with someone who wants to challenge anything i said in it. just wanted to contributed my take on this useless thread. appreciate anyone who's made it this far on this post. 

Good post.  Well I guess technically one could argue the “vastly less harmful” quote may get a little fuzzy when you get down to age 16 or so, which again is why I thought this news was interesting because it involves 30+ year old coaches, and not 18-22 year old athletes who might actually have an argument for the risk/benefit profile of the vaccine.

I know you’re saying you don’t expect to change anyone’s mind,  but I am curious...Have you had this conversation with Askren?

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3 hours ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

one thing i feel like should be emphasized more is that the main reason to not fear covid (being young and healthy) is 100% the same reason to not fear the covid vaccine. the vaccine is vastly less harmful than covid and we know a vast amount more about the long term affects about the vaccines than we do about covid. 

once that fact is internalized then everything else makes more sense. you're vastly less likely to contract covid, less likely to spread it, less likely to get sick, hospitalized and die, once you get the vaccine.

americans are blessed and lucky to live in a place that produced such a miracle drug in abundance and i'm saddened that more people don't take advantage of that fact. 

i also think that government mandates are unhelpful and should be avoided and also that government mandates stopping private entities from requiring vaccine mandates are even worse.

i don't expect anyone to have their mind changed by this post nor do i have any intention of arguing with someone who wants to challenge anything i said in it. just wanted to contributed my take on this useless thread. appreciate anyone who's made it this far on this post. 

Part of the issue as well is that people generally don’t understand the concept of being vaccinated isn’t purely about the individual. 
 

As you’ve said, we’re incredibly lucky to have such ease of access to something that has been a rather effective and simple intervention and it’s sad people are dying rather than get a simple vaccination 

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