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Who has had a better wrestling career so far?

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As others have mentioned, I would give the slight nod to Taylor at this point because the Olympic Gold is the highest level in the sport. But I don’t think it automatically trumps everything. For example, would you put a one time Olympic gold medalists but zero time world medalist higher than someone like Adeline Gray? I would not.

It is close between Dake and Taylor even if you look at only international results. I believe in wrestling you have to look NCAA results too because that is the pinnacle of folkstyle wrestling. Folkstyle is way more popular in this country, and I guarantee you that more Americans watched the NCAAs than the Olympics for wrestling. Like it or not, popularity has a big impact on the level of prestige for the accomplishment. This is the reason why Olympic gold outweighs world gold… otherwise they are the same and Dake clearly would have the nod.


If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask@ShakaAloha because he knows more than me.

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35 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

He did in 2016.  He beat him.  Then he lost to the Matrix.

I'm aware that Dake beat DT at the 2016 Olympic Trials.  I'm saying that maybe he should go up again in 2024 since he clearly has Taylor's number.

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5 hours ago, ShakaAloha said:

I'm aware that Dake beat DT at the 2016 Olympic Trials.  I'm saying that maybe he should go up again in 2024 since he clearly has Taylor's number.

Why, when he has the 74kg spot now?

DT better watch his rearview mirror.  I have a feeling we are going to see the best version of JB we have seen in a while... and that is scary.  If he believes that he can win at 86 I think we will see him there.

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52 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Why, when he has the 74kg spot now?

DT better watch his rearview mirror.  I have a feeling we are going to see the best version of JB we have seen in a while... and that is scary.  If he believes that he can win at 86 I think we will see him there.

Interesting thought. JB and DT vying for the 2024 86kg spot. They would be 36 and 33 respectively. Might be a thought if the cut is too much for JB with age, but I do think he is a bit small for 86. Both would be on the older side. I agree though, it would be quite cool to see him commit to that weight.

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If we are asking about better "career" I would say Dake (not even close based on ALL results including head to head), but if the question is who has gotten the bigger "accomplishment" I would say DT with the Olympic gold as there isn't a bigger accomplishment (outside of marriage and kids)...IMHO.  But DT is also WAY more popular, which I don't think has anything to do with who has a better career.

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6 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Thus far, who has the better career - Kyle Dake or Kevin Jackson?

 

Made me think that someone should start a thread on who has had a better career winning fights on these boards.  Guys like LJB, Duck, etc.  LOL

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3 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

They all think they won.  We need judges

No doubt they all think they won!!  LOL!  We would definitely need a panel of judges with diverse perspectives.  I vote you as one of them! Lurker seems pretty logical and open minded for the most part as well.

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2 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

College, Fargo and Tulsa are out the window when they start winning wold medals.  Taylor has the better career.

I bet there are people on these boards who would take a Hodge over any international medal. 

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3 hours ago, Axe_Spartan said:

Dake in college. In freestyle wrestling, Taylor no doubt, world champion in an olympic category, and now olympic champion.

I know a lot of people think a world championship at an Olympic weight is better than one at a non-Olympic weight. But why? Who says. In WC's there are ten weights. Anyone can decide where to go. Is there any evidence that that Olympic weights are harder to win? Are the actual medals any different. If anything, you could argue that guys who are naturally at non-Olypic weights are screwed by the Olympics not including those weights.

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8 minutes ago, NJDan said:

I know a lot of people think a world championship at an Olympic weight is better than one at a non-Olympic weight. But why? Who says. In WC's there are ten weights. Anyone can decide where to go. Is there any evidence that that Olympic weights are harder to win? Are the actual medals any different. If anything, you could argue that guys who are naturally at non-Olypic weights are screwed by the Olympics not including those weights.

One could go through the last couple of cycles, look at the results of the olympics, and see where those medalists spent their time in between Games.

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I would say Taylor.  Maybe this is recency bias but the difference between Taylor in his biggest moment (finding a late takedown to beat a truly great opponent) and Dake in his biggest moment (getting thrown on his head and tech-smashed) is just so big that even though there is a lot of other stuff in Dake's favor, it can't overcome this.  I feel like if Dake would have lost in the Olympics in a 7-5 match it would be easier to make a case for him, but since it was 11-0, not so much.

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4 hours ago, HawkY said:

I bet there are people on these boards who would take a Hodge over any international medal. 

That's insane.  The Hodge is essentially a popularity contest among the wrestling media.  If you ask the guys who have won both an Olympic gold and a Hodge (Sanderson, Burroughs, Taylor, and Steveson) which one is more meaningful to them, I guarantee they would all pick the Olympic gold. 

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This is hilarious.  It'd be one thing if they weren't contemporaries who had competed directly against one another, or if Taylor's freestyle results dramatically outstripped Dakes.  However, they were contemporaries, they did compete against one another, and Taylor's freestyle results only marginally outstrip Dake's.  And while DT is winning at an Olympic weight, it's also by far the weakest Olympic weight.  The world level results are roughly comparable with a slight edge to Taylor.  The college results are heavily in favor of Dake, and he's something like 115-0 against Taylor head to head since entering college, including getting pinned once.  Stop the madness.

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What separates NCCA champs from themselves?  International wrestling on the Sr circuit.  Taylor is a four time NCAA finalist, won twice.  Dake is a four time NCAA finalist, won four.  Dake has had a superior career as far as the NCAA goes. 

In the Sr circuit, both had to move up weight classes because they could not beat the competition.  They both did and that year they both won WC gold.  So they are tied at that point. 

Taylor got hurt and had to sit out 2019 and Dake went and defended his title.  Based on 2021 results, it appears that Taylor would also have done the same.  So Dake with a small edge because he actually went.  Is there anyone here who thinks Taylor would not have won the 2019 title?  Nuff said.  

2021, Dake removed JB from the Olympic Team and won Bronze with a rather lackluster first day.  He did not look like Dake.  The second day of competition Dake looked like Dake.  Taylor reclaimed his top spot at 86 and won the Olympics.  This after having been injured for a year.  He came back as an incarnation of his 2018 self.  So I'd say Taylor has the better international career.  Oly Gold is everything. 

We'll see how it goes at 2021 worlds in Oslo.  Most are betting Taylor wins gold, and most are hoping Dake shows up for the full tourney this time and wins gold.  But 74 is quite a bit different than 79. 

Success at an Olympic weight?  Taylor hands down. 

But realistically, they have had stellar careers and steel has sharpened steel. 

mspart

 

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23 hours ago, NJDan said:

 Is there any evidence that that Olympic weights are harder to win? 

I think the limited qualification for the Olympics with only 16 total competitors qualifying from around the world means the path the an Olympic Gold...hmmm...has fewer obstacles. I can't (with a straight face) make the argument that the path is easier, but I can argue that Taylor's path through 32 competitors the 2018 Worlds was more impressive than through 16 at 2020 Olympics. FWIW, Yazdani navigated a field of 43 in 2019. 

In that line of reasoning, Dake's path through 2018 & 2019 Worlds were among 30 and 23 competitors, respectively. And, those paths were at a weight class that hadn't been contested since 1995, the last time we saw 10 weight classes contested. Also, that drop to 23 competitors at 79kg in 2019, compared to the jump to 43 at 86kg, is evidence that the field was shifting into their competitive weights to round out the Olympiad.

Based on "evidence", it's fair to say the path to Gold at 86 is quantifiably harder than the path at 79. I'll defer to more knowledgeable fans on whether this argument also is qualifiable

 

 

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