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NJDan

Of the times David Taylor and Kyle Dake have wrestled since starting college, who has won more?

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19 hours ago, Fishbane said:

I would say David Taylor has won more.  Wikipedia has his freestyle record as 136-18 and Dake as 106-18.  I doubt this is exhastive as Taylors injury default loss to Drew Foster is not listed.  In NCAA competition Taylor was 134-3 and Dake was 137-4.  Pretty sure those numbers do not include NWCA all star matchs.  Dake famously beat Taylor at the 2012 event and Taylor won at the 2013 event.  So 1-1 for Tayor and 1-0 For Dake.  As a redshirt Taylor was 21-2.  Dake did not redshirt.  Totalling it all up Taylor is 292-25 since starting college and Dake is 244-22.  There are probably some matches missing, but not enough for Dake to make up 48 wins.  

I know Taylor lost in the two finals. What was his other loss (if it wasn't his NWCA loss to Dake)?

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23 hours ago, Fishbane said:

I would say David Taylor has won more.  Wikipedia has his freestyle record as 136-18 and Dake as 106-18.  I doubt this is exhastive as Taylors injury default loss to Drew Foster is not listed.  In NCAA competition Taylor was 134-3 and Dake was 137-4.  Pretty sure those numbers do not include NWCA all star matchs.  Dake famously beat Taylor at the 2012 event and Taylor won at the 2013 event.  So 1-1 for Tayor and 1-0 For Dake.  As a redshirt Taylor was 21-2.  Dake did not redshirt.  Totalling it all up Taylor is 292-25 since starting college and Dake is 244-22.  There are probably some matches missing, but not enough for Dake to make up 48 wins.  

How many additional losses would Dake have had he been at an Olympic weight the past many years? Several is my guess. 

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2021 Oslo will let us know about the future Dake?  We all think he has gold being handed to him but not if he wrestles like he did in Tokyo.  He was lackluster and not like Dake at all that first day.  Maybe ate some bad sushi or fugu.  But he came roaring back the next day.  He will have to be roaring both days in Oslo to win gold.  I think he can do it.  But it is definitely a tougher weight class than 79.  I expect JB to win 79.  I expect Taylor to win at 86.   Steel sharpens steel.   

mspart

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1 hour ago, TBar1977 said:

How many additional losses would Dake have had he been at an Olympic weight the past many years? Several is my guess. 

How many additional losses would Taylor have suffered if he wrestled as a true freshman. A bunch, I would guess, and he certainly would not have been a four-time finalist.

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50 minutes ago, NJDan said:

How many additional losses would Taylor have suffered if he wrestled as a true freshman. A bunch, I would guess, and he certainly would not have been a four-time finalist.

That is certainly possible. 

I know you are playing defense on this subject, but it is common knowledge that winning at Olympic weights is harder than winning at non Olympic weights. Dake is Exhibit A. 

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12 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

That is certainly possible. 

I know you are playing defense on this subject, but it is common knowledge that winning at Olympic weights is harder than winning at non Olympic weights. Dake is Exhibit A. 

On your side here generally, but let's not pretend 86 is deep. It's pretty comparable to 79 kg in terms of depth. Yazdani and Naifonov/Kurugliev are good, but after that it's maybe even weaker than 79.

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37 minutes ago, NJDan said:

I know Taylor lost in the two finals. What was his other loss (if it wasn't his NWCA loss to Dake)?

Folkstyle

2013 NCAA Final Dake 5-4

2013 Southern Scuffle Dake 3-2

2012 NWCA All Star Classic 2-1

Freestyle

2016 OTT Dake 11-4

2015 US Nationals (late 2015/2016 OTT qualifier) Dake 11-4

2015 Wtt Dake 8-2

2013 WTT Dake 7-4

2012 OTT Dake WBF

That's all I've got but some people are saying they've wrestled 11 times.

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1 hour ago, NJDan said:

How many additional losses would Taylor have suffered if he wrestled as a true freshman. A bunch, I would guess, and he certainly would not have been a four-time finalist.

Probably a handful. He was 21-2 with his only losses coming to his teammates.  9-7 to Sanderson in the Nittany Lion Open final and 4-3 to Bubba J in the ESU open final.  He had also lost a wrestle off to Sanderson more handily than either of the open losses.  He definietly improved a lot over the course of the season.

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57 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

On your side here generally, but let's not pretend 86 is deep. It's pretty comparable to 79 kg in terms of depth. Yazdani and Naifonov/Kurugliev are good, but after that it's maybe even weaker than 79.

Matters not when talking about an all or nothing scenario. The only thing that matters is the top guys, and they are at the Oly weights.

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14 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Matters not when talking about an all or nothing scenario. The only thing that matters is the top guys, and they are at the Oly weights.

horse poo...

utter horse poo...

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2 hours ago, mspart said:

2021 Oslo will let us know about the future Dake?  We all think he has gold being handed to him but not if he wrestles like he did in Tokyo.  He was lackluster and not like Dake at all that first day.  Maybe ate some bad sushi or fugu.  But he came roaring back the next day.  He will have to be roaring both days in Oslo to win gold.  I think he can do it.  But it is definitely a tougher weight class than 79.  I expect JB to win 79.  I expect Taylor to win at 86.   Steel sharpens steel.   

mspart

Doesn't look like the top tier competition is going to be in Oslo, so Dake will cruise to gold.

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Flo is saying the Russian entry is right there with Sidakov.  Says he likely would have won a match if not for the ref avoiding backs against Sidakov when he hit a granby trying to avoid a TD.  Guy is no slouch.  

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2 hours ago, Fishbane said:

Probably a handful. He was 21-2 with his only losses coming to his teammates.  9-7 to Sanderson in the Nittany Lion Open final and 4-3 to Bubba J in the ESU open final.  He had also lost a wrestle off to Sanderson more handily than either of the open losses.  He definietly improved a lot over the course of the season.

Bubba is one thing. But Cyler Sanderson was not so great. If he was losing to Cyler, he would have taken other losses if wrestling a varsity schedule as opposed to a redshirt schedule.

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6 hours ago, NJDan said:

How many additional losses would Taylor have suffered if he wrestled as a true freshman. A bunch, I would guess, and he certainly would not have been a four-time finalist.

I think Taylor would have been national champion at 141 as a true freshman.  Beating another stud in the finals.

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1 hour ago, Mokoma said:

I think Taylor would have been national champion at 141 as a true freshman.  Beating another stud in the finals.

This actually adds an interesting wrinkle into the hypothetical match up. We've never seen a Dake-Taylor matchup where DT is missing one of his legs.

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17 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

This actually adds an interesting wrinkle into the hypothetical match up. We've never seen a Dake-Taylor matchup where DT is missing one of his legs.

Let’s not forget he was 135 lbs the season before.  If he wanted to he could have easily wrestled 141 his true freshman year.  

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43 minutes ago, Mokoma said:

Let’s not forget he was 135 lbs the season before.  If he wanted to he could have easily wrestled 141 his true freshman year.  

Then why was he wrestling 157 as a redshirt freshman? 

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1 hour ago, Mokoma said:

Let’s not forget he was 135 lbs the season before.  If he wanted to he could have easily wrestled 141 his true freshman year.  

and lest we forget he was at 112 a mere two season before. probably would have been at 125 if brad pataky wasn't there.

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On 9/22/2021 at 10:52 PM, jchapman said:

Just curious, does an Ivy League trained lawyer know how to perform a basic Google search?

I think he’s an actual journalist is I remember correctly. Which is even worse. Lol

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9 hours ago, scribe said:

I think he’s an actual journalist is I remember correctly. Which is even worse. Lol

I'm not believing he's an Ivy educated lawyer. His take on law school admissions was too wrong to come from anyone who has applied to law school in the last 40 years.

Edited by Major Kong

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