Ranking our senior men’s wrestlers, pound-for-pound

[Katie 1,076]

What would a p4p ranking look like based on current level of ability (as opposed to best resume)?

Edited September 24, 2021 by Katie

[mspart 270]

For sheer dominance, Taylor.  But Dake is there too, but for the recent Bronze.  I blame bad sushi or fugu.   Gable had a great year but not years.  JB was the best p4p until Dake unseated him.  I would have to say Taylor and Dake are our US P4P best. 

mspart

[nhs67 2,060]

Snyder

Cox

Dake

Taylor

Burroughs

Gillman

Johnny D

Green

Fix

Gwiazdowski

 

[LifeintheRed 81]

I think it's pretty clear. From 2017 (Excluding 2017 Worlds which hurts Snyder & Burroughs and to a lesser degree J'Den), here are the numbers. I think "current" has to be a few years anyway just to get a usable sample size. Results are all matches, domestic & international:

1) David Taylor - Since Dec. 2017, has went 54-0, winning a World Championship and Olympic Gold. He's P4P King right now. Let's look and see how some others have fared over that same time period:

2) Kyle Dake - Since Dec. 2017, has went 58-2, winning 2 World Championships and Bronze at Olympics. 

3) Kyle Snyder - since Dec. 2017, has went 68-6, winning Silver & Bronze at World Championships and Olympic Silver 

4) J'den Cox - since Dec. 2017, has went 42-5, winning two World Championships

5) Jordan Burroughs - Since Dec. 2017, has went 44-8, winning 2 bronze medals at World Championships

I put Snyder ahead of Cox because he actually wrestles and the same dude who has denied him Gold twice would likely also deny Cox. 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2021 by LifeintheRed

[treep2000 1,140]

33 minutes ago, LifeintheRed said:

I think it's pretty clear. From 2017 (Excluding 2017 Worlds which hurts Snyder & Burroughs and to a lesser degree J'Den), here are the numbers. I think "current" has to be a few years anyway just to get a usable sample size. Results are all matches, domestic & international:

1) David Taylor - Since Dec. 2017, has went 54-0, winning a World Championship and Olympic Gold. He's P4P King right now. Let's look and see how some others have fared over that same time period:

2) Kyle Dake - Since Dec. 2017, has went 58-2, winning 2 World Championships and Bronze at Olympics. 

3) Kyle Snyder - since Dec. 2017, has went 68-6, winning Silver & Bronze at World Championships and Olympic Silver 

4) J'den Cox - since Dec. 2017, has went 42-5, winning two World Championships

5) Jordan Burroughs - Since Dec. 2017, has went 44-8, winning 2 bronze medals at World Championships

I put Snyder ahead of Cox because he actually wrestles and the same dude who has denied him Gold twice would likely also deny Cox. 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

This is fair and balanced...

[CJE64 23]

I personally think gwiz gets short shrift.  Other than the OTT against a super talented gold medalist, he has been our world team rep for years and picked up two world bronzes.  Definitely on the back nine but dominated at WTT so still the best heavyweight in the country not named Gable.

[maligned 529]

8 hours ago, CJE64 said:

I personally think gwiz gets short shrift.  Other than the OTT against a super talented gold medalist, he has been our world team rep for years and picked up two world bronzes.  Definitely on the back nine but dominated at WTT so still the best heavyweight in the country not named Gable.

Agree. At a full-strength worlds, with the way he's wrestled the last year, he's more likely to medal than Fix, Green, and possibly Yianni

Edited September 25, 2021 by maligned

[bnwtwg 1,065]

The top 6 are head and shoulders above the rest of the domestic field

1) Taylor - the best in the world both times he has gone and is on a tear. He is the best on the senior team, and if he wins again next weekend then the only person he can push him down is #2 and that requires defeating the Russian Tank.

2) Snyder - I think Snyder is criminally underrated which is quite a statement. Went from being the P4P best in the world only to relinquish his spot to…. the P4P best in the world. Quite a tough position when your improvement requires you to transcend generational greatness. He absolutely blew through the weak side of the Oly bracket and may get no such favors this time around. This generation’s version of watching Bird and Magic vie for the best.

3) Steveson - hey, the rules didn’t require that the person be interested in continuing to wrestle anything more than NCAA tomato cans. And to be honest, he should not have required a last second takedown because he should have been given grand amplitude for the lift that was only given 1. The entire match dynamic changed at that point. And he STILL gutted it out (buh dum tsss).

4) Dake - had his first bad match in approximately 4 years at the worst time possible. I don’t know that I would have ranked him any higher than #3 even if he brought home gold though because Steveson really took 125 to the woodshed.

5) JB - I mean, he’s still JB. But Dake took his spot and Ringer exposed a weakness with the dump.

6) Cox - quack quack goes the Polish duck. I hope he doesn’t break my twittering thumbs for putting him this low because I’m an ardent J’Den fan.

HM:

Yianni’s style lends well to international success. But right now even a gold medal looks cheap based on the current lack of worlds elite participants.

Gilman had a great Oly tourney, much better than his ‘17 run to silver in this internet idiot’s opinion. Was it the best weekend of his life or is it here to stay?

I wish Nickal would have given it one more chance. I legitimately think he could have beaten Cox for 92 this year, and I think even with all the time spent on MMA he is still top 10 p4p domestically and would medal at a minimum.

Zahid by a frog’s hair over Ringer for the last spot. At least for today.

[The Genius 381]

1. David Taylor - dominating for multiple years at an Olympic weight against a international p4p top #10 (Yazdani). 

2. Gable Steveson - Olympic gold at the age of 21, current #1 at 125kg (defection to WWE aside). 

3. Kyle Snyder - extremely fortunate draw at Tokyo might have helped but he re-established himself as second to only the international p4p #1 at 97kg. An ATG in the making given his career and age. 

4. Kyle Dake - has been dominant for a few years but at a non-Olympic weight and the underperformance in Tokyo makes it hard to put him above 1-3.

5. J'den Cox - difficult to place since he has been dominant at a non-Olympic weight and then the weigh-in saga and Ukraine competition disaster. We need to see him at an Olympic weight class before we can place him higher. 

6. Jordan Burroughs - no longer good enough to defeat the elite at 74kg but favourite for gold at 79kg and an ATG. 

[Le duke 417]

Nickal, despite being all in on MMA now, would very likely have at least a bronze medal if he had competed at the Olympics. I think he rolls out of bed and beats Amine and Punia.

 

I’d put him well above several of our Oslo reps.

 

I’m still shocked that people said that Cox was in the “best P4P in the world” conversation. The last time he beat someone of note was Taylor, in 2017.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AZ_wrestling 119]

DT

Gable

Snyder

Gilman

Dake

Cox

Burroughs

Yianni

Gwiz

Green

Fix

[Eagle26 598]

1. David Taylor - dominating for multiple years at an Olympic weight against a international p4p top #10 (Yazdani). 
2. Gable Steveson - Olympic gold at the age of 21, current #1 at 125kg (defection to WWE aside). 
3. Kyle Snyder - extremely fortunate draw at Tokyo might have helped but he re-established himself as second to only the international p4p #1 at 97kg. An ATG in the making given his career and age. 
4. Kyle Dake - has been dominant for a few years but at a non-Olympic weight and the underperformance in Tokyo makes it hard to put him above 1-3.
5. J'den Cox - difficult to place since he has been dominant at a non-Olympic weight and then the weigh-in saga and Ukraine competition disaster. We need to see him at an Olympic weight class before we can place him higher. 
6. Jordan Burroughs - no longer good enough to defeat the elite at 74kg but favourite for gold at 79kg and an ATG. 

Very well said. Only thing I wouldn’t really agree with is that Burroughs is “no longer good enough to defeat the elite at 74”. I may be nit picking but I think he’s good enough to beat them from time to time, just not on a consistent basis like he was before (looking at his matches with Sidakov for example). I would still put him ahead of Cox at this time, but that’s debatable. I think all your other justifications are spot on.


If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask@ShakaAloha because he knows more than me.