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Jimmy Cinnabon

Bouzakis to Ohio State

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Sort of a bizarre turn of events that greco of all things is becoming somewhat of a specialty for Ohio State.  Flash in the pan maybe?  Strange nonetheless.  

Great get for Ohio State.  Probably means they're out of the Mendez sweepstakes, but when you can lock up a guy of Bouzakis' caliber there's no sense playing games.  

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6 hours ago, BobDole said:

Intermat put out an article on how Ohio State has done with top 10 recruits since Tommy got there. They have now signed 21 top 10 recruits

Of those, 4 have yet to wrestle(Kharchla, Bouzakis, Feldman, and Gallagher).

Champs- 4(Snyder 3x, Stieber 4x, Tomasello, and Martin)
All-Americans- 5(Jordan x2, Sasso, Pletcher, H. Stieber)
Qualifiers- 1(Singletary)
Did not qualify- 4(Decatur with 2 years left, Hoffman with 2 years left, Collin Palmer, and Sean Nemec)
Transfers- 3(Thomas Haines, Andrew Campolattano, and Kerkvliet)

Both Tomasello and Martin won NCAA's as freshmen and did not win it again. You could likely bump Pletcher to champion status as he was a heavy favorite.

Sasso was robbed last year as well...

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22 hours ago, Paul158 said:

It sucked so bad he won 3 ncaa titles . 3 world championships and a Olympic gold medal.  Also was 2nd  his true freshman year.. Wow what a awful training situation..

Well it was 2 world championships and an Olympic gold but whos counting?  Hopefully it will be 3 world championships in another week and you were just a prophet :)

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20 hours ago, BobDole said:

Intermat put out an article on how Ohio State has done with top 10 recruits since Tommy got there. They have now signed 21 top 10 recruits

Of those, 4 have yet to wrestle(Kharchla, Bouzakis, Feldman, and Gallagher).

Champs- 4(Snyder 3x, Stieber 4x, Tomasello, and Martin)
All-Americans- 5(Jordan x2, Sasso, Pletcher, H. Stieber)
Qualifiers- 1(Singletary)
Did not qualify- 4(Decatur with 2 years left, Hoffman with 2 years left, Collin Palmer, and Sean Nemec)
Transfers- 3(Thomas Haines, Andrew Campolattano, and Kerkvliet)

Both Tomasello and Martin won NCAA's as freshmen and did not win it again. You could likely bump Pletcher to champion status as he was a heavy favorite.

Pletcher was not a heavy favorite - he was a favorite to make the finals but was a pick em match with Lee.  Moore was a heavy favorite that year thogh - most people would have been surprised if he didn't win had they wrestled the tournament.

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18 hours ago, hammerlockthree said:

Why'd he leave?

Snyder is a freak he could have done that at a dozen schools.

Is that meant to be rhetorical?  He left because he plateaued, and lost.  

Your second point is completely irrelevant as it could be claimed, with no basis, for just about every ultra successful wrestler.   

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17 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

Is that meant to be rhetorical?  He left because he plateaued, and lost.  

Your second point is completely irrelevant as it could be claimed, with no basis, for just about every ultra successful wrestler.   

yeah admittedly that's true, its not a great argument because it can't be falsified....doesn't change the fact that tOSU doesn't develop their talent well compared to the other top 10 programs.

Go back and watch steiber's flo film, he talks openly about how during his RS freshmen year instead of cutting his weight correctly he used to just watch practice and float off the last few pounds. that's incompetent by high school standards. Another kid who would have been successful pretty much anywhere.

Edited by hammerlockthree

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13 minutes ago, hammerlockthree said:

yeah admittedly that's true, its not a great argument because it can't be falsified....doesn't change the fact that tOSU doesn't develop their talent well compared to the other top 10 programs.

I wouldn't claim they're the best, but a blanket statement like that seems off base.  "Doesn't develop their talent well compared to the other top 10 programs."  Which ones?  Penn State?  No !@#$.  

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1 minute ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

I wouldn't claim they're the best, but a blanket statement like that seems off base.  "Doesn't develop their talent well compared to the other top 10 programs."  Which ones?  Penn State?  No !@#$.  

Off the top of my head Penn state, iowa, cornell, missouri, NC State, Virginia Tech, Northwestern do a dramatically better job. I could throw in a bunch teams based simply on the fact that they've beaten tOSU in duals and NCAA's with much less flashy recruiting, but I really am trying to stick to teams based purely on my noticing that their guys have obviously been coached. 

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47 minutes ago, hammerlockthree said:

Off the top of my head Penn state, iowa, cornell, missouri, NC State, Virginia Tech, Northwestern do a dramatically better job. I could throw in a bunch teams based simply on the fact that they've beaten tOSU in duals and NCAA's with much less flashy recruiting, but I really am trying to stick to teams based purely on my noticing that their guys have obviously been coached. 

Besides PSU and Iowa, none of those programs have come anywhere close to accomplishing what Ohio State has.  They all, for the most part, do a good job.  Dramatically better is just wrong.  

That's a great measurement though.  Teams that you've "noticed were coached."  Good stuff. 

 

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14 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

Besides PSU and Iowa, none of those programs have come anywhere close to accomplishing what Ohio State has.  They all, for the most part, do a good job.  Dramatically better is just wrong.  

That's a great measurement though.  Teams that you've "noticed were coached."  Good stuff. 

 

I could just list teams that have beaten them but I'm trying to be intellectually honest about the nature of the discussion, you know as opposed to making sneering cheap remarks and talking to a non-existent person who says they have no credentials.

And beyond that you are being willfully ignorant. My whole point is that that tOSU punches well below their weight in terms of recruiting, they're basically a ferrari with go cart tires. Their guys peak as freshmen, someones always out of shape, their mat wrestling sucks, look for hustle positions like mat returns and short offense scores and you are gonna see a giant holes, then you get to 5 star recruits like decatur who are just a total embarrassment...

 

Edited by hammerlockthree

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16 hours ago, hammerlockthree said:

I could just list teams that have beaten them but I'm trying to be intellectually honest about the nature of the discussion, you know as opposed to making sneering cheap remarks and talking to a non-existent person who says they have no credentials.

And beyond that you are being willfully ignorant. My whole point is that that tOSU punches well below their weight in terms of recruiting, they're basically a ferrari with go cart tires. Their guys peak as freshmen, someones always out of shape, their mat wrestling sucks, look for hustle positions like mat returns and short offense scores and you are gonna see a giant holes, then you get to 5 star recruits like decatur who are just a total embarrassment...

 

Snyder, Pletcher, McKenna and Moore NOT EVEN REMOTELY  peaked as freshmen.  Hell, Myles Martin had, by far, the best year of his career as a senior, but simply had 1 bad match at NCAA's.

The mat wrestling comment is getting old, tired and inaccurate as well since it is really only based on the Jordan family's performance on the mat.  Of their current starting lineup, how many show glaring weaknesses on the mat.  Please be specific...

Edited by MSU158

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3 hours ago, MSU158 said:

Snyder, Pletcher, McKenna and Moore NOT EVEN REMOTELY  peaked as freshmen.  Hell, Myles Martin had, by far, the best year of his career as a senior, but simply had 1 bad match at NCAA's.

The mat wrestling comment is getting old, tired and inaccurate as well since it is really only based on the Jordan family's performance on the mat.  Of their current starting lineup, how many show glaring weaknesses on the mat.  Please be specific...

Decatur and Echemendia

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3 hours ago, MSU158 said:

Jury is out on them.  Way too early to paint them into any corner.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this.  Decatur is going into his third season as a starter, and I think Echemendia  would normally deserve some slack but he is at least 23 years old.

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1 hour ago, ShakaAloha said:

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this.  Decatur is going into his third season as a starter, and I think Echemendia  would normally deserve some slack but he is at least 23 years old.

Very possible that neither will be a starter this year.  Word is Decatur will slug it out with Ech and D'Emilio for the spot at 141.  D'Emilio probably the favorite based on win over Ech and performance last year.  Decatur's gas tank issues may be helped somewhat by the move up but I suspect his mat wrestling may be an even bigger liability at the higher weight.

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13 hours ago, MSU158 said:

Snyder, Pletcher, McKenna and Moore NOT EVEN REMOTELY  peaked as freshmen.  Hell, Myles Martin had, by far, the best year of his career as a senior, but simply had 1 bad match at NCAA's.

The mat wrestling comment is getting old, tired and inaccurate as well since it is really only based on the Jordan family's performance on the mat.  Of their current starting lineup, how many show glaring weaknesses on the mat.  Please be specific...

With the possible exception of snyder all those guys did peak as freshmen, you just don't know the difference between waiting for people to graduate and improving, and the fact that you mentioned mckenna, who wasn't a freshmen at tOSU....isnt great for the argument. 

They weren't good enough this year for anyone to notice details like mat wrestling. I can't be specific about illinois mat deficiencies either, but they were good enough to beat tOSU. 

I'll put it this way, tOSU recruits on a tier with PSU OSU and recently Iowa...when was the last time one of those teams scored 46 points at NCAAs? I'll bash them too is they exist.

Edited by hammerlockthree

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With the possible exception of snyder all those guys did peak as freshmen, you just don't know the difference between waiting for people to graduate and improving, and the fact that you mentioned mckenna, who wasn't a freshmen at tOSU....isnt great for the argument. 
They weren't good enough this year for anyone to notice details like mat wrestling. I can't be specific about illinois mat deficiencies either, but they were good enough to beat tOSU. 
I'll put it this way, tOSU recruits on a tier with PSU OSU and recently Iowa...when was the last time one of those teams scored 46 points at NCAAs? I'll bash them too is they exist.

Pletcher and Moore were absolutely at their best their senior seasons, NCAA’s just got cancelled so they weren’t able to broadcast it. Pletcher especially. Freshman Pletcher doesn’t come close to beating Nick Lee.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I'm tired of everyone bashing tOSU for not know how to wrestle on the mat.  The fact is they just don't practice top/bottom wrestling because their focus is on  freestyle. That's how you produce an Olympic Champion at 21 like Kyle Snyder rather than wait until 30 like Taylor.  Tomasello is another example.  By not practicing  mat wrestling, it's true  he got beat by Spencer Lee in folkstyle, but he has significantly outperformed him in freestyle.  Simply put, Ohio State trains for the real competition-international wrestling, not the NCAA matches, which are just a glorified preseason.  

Edited by Billyhoyle

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6 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

I'm tired of everyone bashing tOSU for not know how to wrestle on the mat.  The fact is they just don't practice top/bottom wrestling because their focus is on  freestyle. That's how you produce an Olympic Champion at 21 like Kyle Snyder rather than wait until 30 like Taylor.  Tomasello is another example.  By not practicing  mat wrestling, it's true  he got beat by Spencer Lee in folkstyle, but he has significantly outperformed him in freestyle.  Simply put, Ohio State trains for the real competition-international wrestling, not the NCAA matches, which are just a glorified preseason.  

Going to disagree on Tomasello "significantly outperforming" Spencer Lee in freestyle. The last time Spencer wrestled freestyle, he beat Tomasello 8-2 in the finals of the 2019 Senior Nationals. Tomasello is 7-7 on the Senior Circuit since that match (including going 0-3 in Poland in June). His best results came this past month at the WTT, where he beat Colon, Suriano, and DeShazer but lost in two straight matches to Fix. He also lost 3-2 to Arujau at the Olympic Trials (whom Spencer beat 14-4 at Senior Nationals). He has certainly competed more in freestyle than Spencer Lee, but unless the mere fact of competing more means he has "significantly outperformed him" in no way has he outperformed Lee in freestyle. (Head to Head Loss, 0 Senior National Titles to Lee's 1)

 

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11 hours ago, hammerlockthree said:

With the possible exception of snyder all those guys did peak as freshmen, you just don't know the difference between waiting for people to graduate and improving, and the fact that you mentioned mckenna, who wasn't a freshmen at tOSU....isnt great for the argument. 

They weren't good enough this year for anyone to notice details like mat wrestling. I can't be specific about illinois mat deficiencies either, but they were good enough to beat tOSU. 

I'll put it this way, tOSU recruits on a tier with PSU OSU and recently Iowa...when was the last time one of those teams scored 46 points at NCAAs? I'll bash them too is they exist.

LOL.  Pletcher improved DRASTICALLY every season.   McKenna was CONSIDERABLY better his senior season, regardless of where he started his career.  Are you honestly trying to tell me that Martin's senior year wasn't better than every other by a substantial margin?  He may have lost the one match at NCAA's, but it was by far his most consistent and dominant season of his career.   Finally, Moore went from getting walloped by Conel to an undefeated substantial favorite to win NCAA's his senior year.  

Every one of those guys INARGUABLY got better by their last year at tOSU, which 100% contradicts your overall argument that their best guys don't improve over the course of their careers at tOSU.  

They still finished top 10 in the country.  By your reckoning, how many teams are "good enough" to notice details like mat wrestling???

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13 hours ago, ShakaAloha said:

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this.  Decatur is going into his third season as a starter, and I think Echemendia  would normally deserve some slack but he is at least 23 years old.

Decatur is really the ONLY guy you can MAYBE put mat issues on tOSU themselves.  Ech came in almost solely Freestyle centric.  Any issue with mat wrestling started way before tOSU and would make it very hard for any DI coach to magically develop.  Still Decatur was actually the ONLY starter on last year's team at B1G's and with rumors of Ech going down to 133, only 1 of them is likely to start again this season.  So, I would say 1 out of 10 doesn't really count as a trend.  By definition, it would actually be more of an outlier, wouldn't it?

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