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14 minutes ago, ionel said:

You brought up the 6.27 billion not me.  That was after I pointed out a gazillion was prob a bit high but it was still you talking world wide numbers. 

Ok.  Just so you know, gazillion is just a expression for a huge number  It is not a real number.  I brought up that a gazillion people (actually 6 billion doses) had safely taken the vaccine.  I questioned the logic of the idea that one believes themselves at a bigger risk taking COVID vaccine than the uncertainty of having no job and no health benefits.  If you are still unwilling to address that simple question than we both need to stop.

Edited by matts1w

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7 minutes ago, matts1w said:

Ok.  Just so you know, gazillion is just a expression for a huge number  It is not a real number.  I brought up that a gazillion people (actually 6 billion plus) had safely taken the vaccine.  I questioned the logic of the idea that one believes themselves at a bigger risk taking COVID vaccine than the uncertainty of having no job and no health benefits.  If you are still unwilling to address that simple question than we both need to stop.

How many have died from taking the vacine?

How many have died from simply walking away from their job?

and btw:

Etymology of Gaz

Gazzen, from Latin earthly edge, or end of the earth, abbreviated to gaz (literally 28,819 ancient Greek miles 12, been one full revolution of the globe). Therefore a Gazillion has (28819 x 3) zeros and a Gazillion is…

its a HUGE number!

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19 minutes ago, ionel said:

How many have died from taking the vacine?

How many have died from simply walking away from their job?

and btw:

Etymology of Gaz

Gazzen, from Latin earthly edge, or end of the earth, abbreviated to gaz (literally 28,819 ancient Greek miles 12, been one full revolution of the globe). Therefore a Gazillion has (28819 x 3) zeros and a Gazillion is…

its a HUGE number!

You still havent addressed my question except with more questions and lame semantics debate about a figure of speech.  But I will play your game...  How many Americans have found themselves in financial, physical, and mental crisis after losing their job and benefits?  I guess we could do the research, but surely someone as smart of you will acknowledge it is far higher than then number of people dead from COVID vaccine. 

Edited by matts1w

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Name one vaccine ever that’s been stronger then the natural immunity a person gets from their own immune system building antibodies to fight a virus 

Smallpox.


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8 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

Funeral homes from everyone who gets infected and dies before developing immunity.  

That doesn't answer the question...

Where is the US research on natural immunity?  Or even immunity plus vaxx?

If three shots of the vaxx are good, why not get them weekly?

Edited by AHamilton

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6 minutes ago, matts1w said:

You still havent addressed my question except with more questions and lame semantics debate about a figure of speech.  But I will play your game...  How many Americans have found financial, physical, and mental crisis after losing their job and benefits?  I guess we could do the research, but surely someone as smart of you will acknowledge it is far higher than then number of people dead from COVID vaccine. 

How many people die every year in car accident?  Surely its higher than the number who died on 9/11 in the World Trade Centers so the 9/11 deaths don't matter?

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3 minutes ago, ionel said:

How many people die every year in car accident?  Surely its higher than the number who died on 9/11 in the World Trade Centers so the 9/11 deaths don't matter?

Brilliant.  I'm done.  Good luck to you.

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5 minutes ago, ionel said:

How many people die every year in car accident?  Surely its higher than the number who died on 9/11 in the World Trade Centers so the 9/11 deaths don't matter?

Just don't bring up any scenario's where those serving in the military die. Those discussions never end well.

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If vaccine

8 minutes ago, Le duke said:


Is this a joke?


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No seriously. 

I think smallpox natural immunity may have been better.  The vaccine was great, but not 100%, maybe more like 95%. Especially since it diminishes after 3-5 years.   Natural immunity may have been for life.

Are you joking?  Because that was a clownish response.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2610468/

Edited by AHamilton

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Many vaccines are more effective than natural immunity due to having multiple booster shots, which drive affinity  maturation and IgM to IgG isotype switching.  All vaccines are bettrer than natural immunity because you get the protection without the risk of death and bodily harm.  If you get infected after the fact, then you get the natural immunity anyway, and are more likely to survive it.  

Edited by Billyhoyle

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5 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

Many vaccines are more effective than natural immunity due to having multiple booster shots, which drive affinity  maturation and IgM to IgG isotype switching.  All vaccines are bettrer than natural immunity because you get the protection without the risk of death and bodily harm.  If you get infected after the fact, then you get the natural immunity anyway, and are more likely to survive it.  

How's the Lyme vaccine doing?

(In the past 15 months I have gotten pneumonia vax, 2x covid, flu, and 2x Shingrix.. I'm not anti-vax AT ALL, but your statement has some errors)

Edited by AHamilton

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You think people who have gotten the small pox vaccine are more protected than someone who actually got smallpox and beat it with their own immune system? 

I was referring to the fact that ~30% of people who caught smallpox, produced antibodies and still died.

300,000,000 people in the 20th century alone.


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24 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

That doesn't answer the question...

Where is the US research on natural immunity?  Or even immunity plus vaxx?

If three shots of the vaxx are good, why not get them weekly?

Why is the DTaP vaccine four doses?  Why not three, or five?  
There is plenty of research done on natural vs. vaccination immunity.  Why does it have to be US research?

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I believe it is disputed actually. One of the article links above has an interview with an immunologist who says there is mounting evidence that the vaccine is more effective than natural immunity and that natural immunity plus vaccine is also more effective than just natural immunity. However, statements like "mounting evidence" means there is not enough data/analysis of data to make a definitive statement yet.This makes sense to me since the vaccine is only months old.

I suppose you can dispute anything, but the vast majority of evidence is suggesting that natural immunity offers better protection. As you point out the vaccine is only months old so there is very little concrete evidence about it. In the short time that the vaccine has been available, we learned that it’s effectiveness wears off much quicker than anticipated. What do we know about any potential long term side effects? Nothing. I’m not an anti vaxer by any means. I think it’s a great tool that helped a lot of at risk people. But it is waaaaay too early to mandate it for everyone.


If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask@ShakaAloha because he knows more than me.

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11 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

How's the Lyme vaccine doing?

(In the past 15 months I have gotten pneumonia vax, 2x covid, flu, and 2x Shingrix.. I'm not anti-vax AT ALL, but your statement has some errors)

don't forget the shot in the hip  ;)

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20 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

That doesn't answer the question...

Where is the US research on natural immunity?  Or even immunity plus vaxx?

If three shots of the vaxx are good, why not get them weekly?

The CDC has a web site, it's at: https://www.cdc.gov

There are "tons" (!) of good information on the site. It's a good place to get answers to questions like those you ask. I posted a link to Johns Hopkins earlier in this thread - that specifically addresses natural immunity plus vax. Regardless of the site, as long as it's reputable you'll get answers - but set the bar high as to what you deem "reputable". There are a "gazillion" (!) more reputable sites where we can all go to learn more and be more informed and, most importantly, avoid being fed misinformation by shady sources.

There are no dumb questions, yet some are admittedly dumber than others ("why not get them weekly?" is pretty high on the dumb chart.) I'm not calling you dumb, I realize you're just being facetious.

... or, you could ask questions, only half seriously, then bicker over the answer and this whole discussion will devolve into complete nonsense. Which, I believe, is where we're at right now.

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15 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

If vaccine

No seriously. 

I think smallpox natural immunity may have been better.  The vaccine was great, but not 100%, maybe more like 95%. Especially since it diminishes after 3-5 years.   Natural immunity may have been for life.

Are you joking?  Because that was a clownish response.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2610468/

What's your point wrt that study?  The study that says

Quote

Moreover, Baltimore Longitudinal Study of Aging participants who survived active smallpox infections in their youth retained antivaccinia antibody titers that were similar to the levels detected in vaccinated subjects.

and

Quote

Among those individuals with prior vaccination (n = 209), vaccinia-specific IgG titers persisted and remained relatively stable at the various assessed time points, with titers ranging from 1:32 to 1:256 (Ln 3.46-5.54) for periods up to 88 years after an initial vaccine

"Diminishes after 3-5 years"?

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Many vaccines are more effective than natural immunity due to having multiple booster shots, which drive affinity  maturation and IgM to IgG isotype switching.  All vaccines are bettrer than natural immunity because you get the protection without the risk of death and bodily harm.  If you get infected after the fact, then you get the natural immunity anyway, and are more likely to survive it.  
The vaccine compensation fund has paid out over 4.5 billion dollars in compensation to vaccine injured people.

But yeah, vaccines are better than natural immunity. lol

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10 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:


I suppose you can dispute anything, but the vast majority of evidence is suggesting that natural immunity offers better protection. As you point out the vaccine is only months old so there is very little concrete evidence about it. In the short time that the vaccine has been available, we learned that it’s effectiveness wears off much quicker than anticipated. What do we know about any potential long term side effects? Nothing. I’m not an anti vaxer by any means. I think it’s a great tool that helped a lot of at risk people. But it is waaaaay too early to mandate it for everyone.


If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask@ShakaAloha because he knows more than me.

By "months," you mean two years, right?  And the six billion doses already given?  And the fact that mRNA has been in development for at least a decade, and is well understood?

Despite the fact that one in every 500 US resident has died from the coronavirus, you don't think it's bad enough to require vaccination that protects everyone?  How bad would it have to be?  Ebola-level bad?

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