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NJDan

Flo is not in Oslo

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10 minutes ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

of course, a Flo sub is not worth it to you. totally cool. but to say that the $150 is just for Worlds is wrong. it's a bundle of content. just like if you have to pay for an entire cable package even if you only want to watch one single event that's on ESPN.

also want to reiterate that you are saying you value watching the World Championships live but you don't value at all watching the World Team Trials or the Ranking series or World Cup live. that's kind of suspect.

You can kick up all the dust you want. But the issue for me (and apparently for others) is that the cost of watching worlds went from free, to $40 with Track, to $150 with Flo (which includes a yearlong subscription I don’t want).  Pretty simple. 

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16 minutes ago, Katie said:

You can kick up all the dust you want. But the issue for me (and apparently for others) is that the cost of watching worlds went from free, to $40 with Track, to $150 with Flo (which includes a yearlong subscription I don’t want).  Pretty simple. 

It's still free if you set your computer's IP address as being located in a country outside of the US and within a country that UWW provides free access to. The $150 charge is for people who lack the rudimentary technical skills to leverage a VPN.

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21 minutes ago, Katie said:

You can kick up all the dust you want. But the issue for me (and apparently for others) is that the cost of watching worlds went from free, to $40 with Track, to $150 with Flo (which includes a yearlong subscription I don’t want).  Pretty simple. 

yes now you are getting it. agree with all of that, except the part where you say that there are other wrestling fans that want to watch the World Championships don't want to watch events like the World Team Trials or the US Open or the UWW Ranking Series tournaments and other wrestling content. You are probably the only person on earth where to which those preferences would apply. 

but I do appreciate you your commitment to not using a VPN to skirt IP law. It's very much appreciated! 

Edited by Jaroslav Hasek

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19 minutes ago, Katie said:

You can kick up all the dust you want. But the issue for me (and apparently for others) is that the cost of watching worlds went from free, to $40 with Track, to $150 with Flo (which includes a yearlong subscription I don’t want).  Pretty simple. 

Went from essentially non-existent (I did free AUDIO for USAW in 09, 10 and 11). In 13, it was done free via UWW (on what was then known as LiveStream) as a result of the Keep Olympic Wrestling Movement. To my knowledge, there was no live stream in 2014 because the facility internet was absolutely horrible. In 2015, it was streamed on ESPN platforms, so there had to be a subscription for that to watch, right? Flo/Track had a split UWW contract. Then Track fully. Then Flo fully. 

To my knowledge, only once has this been free in the U.S. and that was the first year of the re-brand and the fight to keep wrestling in the Olympics. (I can't be 100% certain, since I was at all of them and couldn't see with my own eyes what the situation is). 

And we revisit this EVERY year (it's not new), that some countries have rights fees and pay for them, while others developing do not. 

You have every right not to buy it, but let's also not make it seem like this event was out there for free live for a large timeframe before it went paywalled. It wasn't. 

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7 minutes ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

yes now you are getting it. agree with all of that, except the part where you say that there are other wrestling fans that want to watch the World Championships don't want to watch events like the World Team Trials or the US Open or the UWW Ranking Series tournaments and other wrestling content. You are probably the only person on earth where to which those preferences would apply. 

I don’t care about watching those other things either so there’s at least two!

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10 minutes ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

yes now you are getting it. agree with all of that, except the part where you say that there are other wrestling fans that want to watch the World Championships don't want to watch events like the World Team Trials or the US Open or the UWW Ranking Series tournaments and other wrestling content. You are probably the only person on earth where to which those preferences would apply. 

HS coach to kids on their team, “everyone check out this uww ranking series tournament coming up on Flo next week! Only $150….” Lol

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2 minutes ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

but its not $150 for one tournament its... oh never mind. yall win. enjoy the day, whether you watch the tournament or not!

Bro we know. There are lots of people that don’t want to or can’t pay $150 bc they don’t think they’ll use it more than 2-3 times

Edited by simple

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24 minutes ago, simple said:

HS coach to kids on their team, “everyone check out this uww ranking series tournament coming up on Flo next week! Only $150….” Lol

“Coach, I can pay that! I saved up some mowing money last summer.  But what time should I start watching?”

”3 AM.”

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16 minutes ago, Mphillips said:

What are everyone's other too expensive subscriptions that they wont buy?

I won't pay  annual subscription for Virgin Atlantic or Blue Origin space flights.  It doesn't seem fair as the air and space above us should be a free public good.

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14 hours ago, JasonBryant said:

Went from essentially non-existent (I did free AUDIO for USAW in 09, 10 and 11). In 13, it was done free via UWW (on what was then known as LiveStream) as a result of the Keep Olympic Wrestling Movement. To my knowledge, there was no live stream in 2014 because the facility internet was absolutely horrible. In 2015, it was streamed on ESPN platforms, so there had to be a subscription for that to watch, right? Flo/Track had a split UWW contract. Then Track fully. Then Flo fully. 

To my knowledge, only once has this been free in the U.S. and that was the first year of the re-brand and the fight to keep wrestling in the Olympics. (I can't be 100% certain, since I was at all of them and couldn't see with my own eyes what the situation is). 

And we revisit this EVERY year (it's not new), that some countries have rights fees and pay for them, while others developing do not. 

You have every right not to buy it, but let's also not make it seem like this event was out there for free live for a large timeframe before it went paywalled. It wasn't. 

We live in a different world now than a decade ago in terms of internet connectivity and streaming capabilities. The ability to stream today is not just because it's profitable-it's also much easier to produce a stream. Anyone in the venue with a smartphone can livestream a bad quality version of the event.

I think there's a happy medium between people expecting it to be free (nobody here expects it to be free) and not wanting to pay $150 to get worlds, the WTT, world cup, and a bunch of HS wrestling.  What is a fair price for wrestling fans who care about worlds/olympics, but not the  HS content, access to flomarching, access to flotrack, access to flow bjj?   I pay for bundles like netflix, amazon prime,  hbo max, etc, but I have the option to cancel month to month. I also pay for MLB.tv, but that doesn't require me to also pay for college baseball, high school baseball, middle school baseball, softball.  

It's just as important to grow the sport's fanbase in the U.S. as it is in Russia and Europe.  So even though it shouldn't be free because we do have the means to pay, there should be options for viewing less than $150.  

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14 hours ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

but its not $150 for one tournament its... oh never mind. yall win. enjoy the day, whether you watch the tournament or not!

We don't want access to Fargo or middle school mat madness. You can buy MLB.TV without having to buy NFL gameday and NBA league pass. Cable companies offer different levels of membership-consider one for those who only care about international wrestling events.  People want to pay, just not $150 for 3 events.  

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Charging people $150 for an event that's free to watch for every other country in the world is in no way good for the popularity of wrestling in the US no matter how you try and explain it. 

Yeah, I get that the $150 includes a bunch of other content, but for people who just want to see the world championships, it's way too much to pay.

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Charging people $150 for an event that's free to watch for every other country in the world is in no way good for the popularity of wrestling in the US no matter how you try and explain it. 
Yeah, I get that the $150 includes a bunch of other content, but for people who just want to see the world championships, it's way too much to pay.

This has been debunked every single year it gets brought up. There’s a number of countries who have this type of streaming agreement.

Also, if people think the infrastructure behind any multiple mat websteam of this nature is getting cheaper … come to an event and see how many moving parts and costs are associated with it.

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5 minutes ago, JasonBryant said:


This has been debunked every single year it gets brought up. There’s a number of countries who have this type of streaming agreement.

Also, if people think the infrastructure behind any multiple mat websteam of this nature is getting cheaper … come to an event and see how many moving parts and costs are associated with it.

Nothing in the world is getting cheaper now. I don't begrudge Flo for making money at all, but the all or nothing $150 stops people dead in their tracks when they only want to see a single event. It's the equivalent of going to a restaurant and having to order the entire menu to get the one meal you want. 

With the exception of NFL Sunday ticket, I don't know of another single major streaming service that isn't available on a monthly basis. 

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there's two conversations being confused here: 1) people don't think a Flo sub is worth $150, and 2) you have to pay $150 to watch the world championships. 

1) is normal and expected and totally cool 2) is incorrect. it's a yearly subscription, not a pay-per-view. it would be like saying netflix charges $10 to watch each of the movies they offer. 

if you continue to insist that worlds is $150 to watch on Flo then you're either just trolling or are really dense. apologies to the thickheaded forum readers who don't understand subscription models. no apologies to the trolls. 

Day 3 coming up in Oslo. Hope everyone enjoys!

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1 hour ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

there's two conversations being confused here: 1) people don't think a Flo sub is worth $150, and 2) you have to pay $150 to watch the world championships. 

1) is normal and expected and totally cool 2) is incorrect. it's a yearly subscription, not a pay-per-view. it would be like saying netflix charges $10 to watch each of the movies they offer. 

if you continue to insist that worlds is $150 to watch on Flo then you're either just trolling or are really dense. apologies to the thickheaded forum readers who don't understand subscription models. no apologies to the trolls. 

Day 3 coming up in Oslo. Hope everyone enjoys!

If somebody wants to watch the world championships this year, how much would that cost?   

You have to just accept that not everyone wants to see HS wrestling, flo exhibition matches, flo docs, or get access to flo BJJ.  Some people are only interested in international wrestling. Those fans pay $150/year for only a couple of events.  It's a price that is way out of whack compared to any comparable service like netflix, Hulu, MLB TV, Rokfin, etc, especially since Flo isn't even producing that stream (or any UWW stream). Nobody would object to paying a reasonable price to watch, but you bought the rights from UWW and are price gouging U.S. fans of international wrestling.  Why not offer a package type deal for fans who don't care about HS wrestling?

Edited by Billyhoyle

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24 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

Some people are only interested in international wrestling.

that's correct, troll, and those people will have much more than just the world championships to watch if they get a subscription. and if they don't that's cool! they are free to live their life however they please.

Edited by Jaroslav Hasek

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13 minutes ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

that's correct, troll, and those people will have much more than just the world championships to watch if they get a subscription. and if they don't that's cool! they are free to live their life however they please.

How about instead of antagonizing your customers/potential customers with name calling, you consider their feedback. I don't think I said anything negative towards you personally. Everyone here is either a subscriber to flo or once was at one point, and dismissing our feedback as trolling is unfortunately indicative of what you as an organization have become.  We aren't asking for the event to be free-we want to give you our money.  We are simply questioning the price point for those who don't care for HS wrestling/exhibition matches/BJJ, and don't value the content provided 9 months out of the year.  Why is there so much antipathy between flo and so many fans of the sport (going in both directions)? It's not a sustainable strategy to respond to feedback with personal attacks. 

Edited by Billyhoyle

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