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Hudson Taylor on MSNBC speaking in support of

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"So, now that the tide has turned, can we be considered courageous if we stand up for and defend a Christian's lifestyle in living out their religion (which some here have purported to not be a choice)?"

 

Be careful to toe the line here, Dan. I posted a comment about who is courageous and my post was deleted. Obviously only those that support gay rights are courageous.

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NJWC...you know what is funny...I am very much a conservative. My problem lies with people trying to limit the rights of people because they are attracted sexualy to the same sex. You can disagree with it, you can think it is gross....I know I don't exactly want to see it....but when you determine and control rights over it, then I have a problem with it. And I believe you will continue to see homosexuality all over the place until it is accepted. Also....you are darn right the media is making a big deal out of it.....and it is because they don't want it to be a big deal.....side note....I hate mainstream media....errrrr!!! :evil:

I also think a lot of people's arguments around this subject by relating it to morals and other "un-moral" acts like murder and rape, are trying so hard to make a point that they instantly lose credibility. Common sense guys....seriously....homosexuality should NEVER be compared or discussed in terms of morality with those types of things.

But you are right NJWC....you have a right to speak out about it, but just as you can TRY and draw conclusions about who I am as a person and what I may believe in because of my reaction to your comments, I and others can draw conclusions about who you are as a person and what you believe in because of your comments. So keep up the anti-homosexuality talk and you must expect to get the responses you are getting in return.

 

I do have an honest question.....what if your son or daughter was a homosexual....would you think that their rights should be different than yours and mine?

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The Freedom of religion is to be anything religiously, a Christian, A Muslim, an atheist, an agnostic, a worshiper of the Spaghetti Monster if you so choose.

 

JT, thanks for recognizing us Pastafarians.

 

p.s. Don't antagonize the christians. They can't win an election and now are all armed to the teeth.

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Because when you do....you open Pandora's box, literally.

 

Literally? so Pandora's box was real? but it's not even in the Bible!

 

jk, jk.

 

anyway, may be worth remembering that this "debate", in so much as there even is one, is not a liberal v conservative one; it's a generational one. look at the polls that show support for gay marriage by age. just a matter of time before all those 18-29 year olds grow up and everyone moves on.

 

as for what's caused the massive shift in public opinion, probably the easiest target is "the media", but i don't believe that's the case. the media exist to make money, and can only reflect society as a whole if they want to stay profitable. the culprit, for lack of a better term, is technology. kids are growing up with the internet, and that's changing a lot of points of view. for better or for worse is a matter of opinion, i suppose, but that is the real Pandora's box that's not closing anytime soon.

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7.Murder, 5.theft, 8.slander (false witness) are still part of our code.

 

About 7 out of the 10 aren't part of the American code :

1. No Gods before Me no Make no graven Images to bow before

2. May Not take My Name in Vain

3. Keep holy the Lord's Day

4. Honor Dad and Mom

6. Adultery

9. no Covet Neighbor's wife

10. no Covet Neighbor's goods

 

But the remaining, non- enforced/non-penalizable commandments, when violated, cause strife for the perp.

 

There are others- Mosaic laws- that our country at one time used- I'll have to look em up.

Pretty sure rape, bestiality, incest are in there.

No question about it.

 

 

 

I'm all for separation of church and state.

 

Since our laws are based upon the tenets of the Bible ( and they are based upon them), will we throw out the baby with the bathwater?

 

Because when you do....you open Pandora's box, literally.

 

Children don't like discipline/rules either, but when they grow up, they see (and appreciate) the wisdom and hardship of their parents.

 

Which modern laws are based on the Bible? How then do those laws apply to non-Christians?

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I wouldn't worry about the republicans winning an election....they haven't had a solid candidate in years.

When they do, THE MEDIA digs up enough old dirt ( ok, sometimes new and present dirt) to effectively bury em before the primaries.

I'm sure Fox News does the same vs the Dems.

 

 

Abe Lincoln (Republican) couldn't have beaten Obama, the re-pubs were sullied so.

 

 

I'd like Jim Jordan to run...he's fairly spotless....but he's enjoying his sons and nephews competitions too much.

 

 

 

The Freedom of religion is to be anything religiously, a Christian, A Muslim, an atheist, an agnostic, a worshiper of the Spaghetti Monster if you so choose.

 

JT, thanks for recognizing us Pastafarians.

 

p.s. Don't antagonize the christians. They can't win an election and now are all armed to the teeth.

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So, please explain how dirt got here

 

 

 

Takes MORE faith to believe in evolution, in my opinion.

 

 

 

 

MORE faith? Nah....all it takes is a modicum of reason, intelligence and rationale

 

From that hole you've been digging yourself into?

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If gay is a "behavior".....

 

1. Let's take a guy who spends the first 50 years of his life gay...Completely gay...No doubt about it gay.

2. Then at 50 years old he, for whatever reason, takes on Christanity and quits sleeping with men.

 

Do you honestly believe he is no longer gay simply because he stops sex with guys? Or he is a gay guy who quit having sex?

 

1. How about the guy who grows up in a religious home, gets married, has kids, and leaves them when he is 30 and comes out as gay. Happens all the time, ya?

 

Do you honestly believe he wasnt gay until he was 30? Or was he just keeping behavior in line with his upbringing?

 

Many gay guys I know have had sex with a woman at least once in their lives. Does that mean when they are hooking up with a girl they are straight? Can one just jump back and forth across a line a change their sexuality based on a behavior?

 

Gay is gay. Leave it alone. Live and let live.

 

(And by the way....maybe we should call this what it really is: being grossed out by the concept of two men being affectionate. I will bet dollars to donuts 99.9% of us are at least "pretty ok" with two attractive women holding hands, kissing, in bed, etc. Hypocritical? Yup.)

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I know that the moderator doesn't want us to go there, but you asked.

 

Irreducible Complexity:

 

 

http://evidencepress.com/articles/ultim ... omplexity/

 

 

...nor do I want the THEORY of evolution taught for that matter.

 

 

Oh boy.....

 

*facepalm*

Do you want the theory of gravity taught as a fact? In scientific terms, theory is the highest level attainable. There is nothing beyond being a THEORY.

 

not trying to be rude. Just stating a FACT.

 

Also, what are these holes? It's pretty solid as far as I'm concerned.

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When people starting pointing fingers and screaming about what "they" keep doing to us (anyone want to count how many times the word "they" appears in this thread in the context of an accusation), logic goes out the window.

 

Will it be the case that more athletes will "come out"---in a variety of sports, including wrestling? What will be the reaction short term? Long term?

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When people starting pointing fingers and screaming about what "they" keep doing to us (anyone want to count how many times the word "they" appears in this thread in the context of an accusation), logic goes out the window.

 

It just reads as "the TV told me..."

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It seems that if there is any underlying hatred (and in some cases, overt), it's by liberals who hate Christians for their beliefs.

Odd, yet funny in an ironic sort of way.

 

I also don't get the idea of equating homosexuality with racial minorities. I know quite a few minorities who don't appreciate it in any way.

Race is "who you are", homosexuality is behavior.

 

Oh well, sorry for interrupting. You lefties keep on with your hating.

 

That someone doesn't agree with you does not mean that they hate you. Race is not "who you are." Who you are is made of many, many things. I've learned that race, gender, ethnicity, sexual preference, and social class are only primitive measures of "who you are." I'd like to think that we are all more than that.

 

I am a Christian too, but I don't draw battle lines where you do, and not as sharply as you do. I don't feel persecuted for being a Christian, and I know many conservatives and many liberals, but I don't share all their views. Liberals are not all the same, and conservatives are not all the same. Thank God.

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So, now that the tide has turned, can we be considered courageous if we stand up for and defend a Christian's lifestyle in living out their religion (which some here have purported to not be a choice)?

 

See real-time, governmental tide turning here - http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013 ... tian-Faith

 

This link is about proselytizing faith, that is, trying to convert other soldiers. This is not about defending a lifestyle, unless that lifestyle demands conversion of others. In a civil society with many different religions like ours, we defend people's religious (or nonreligious) choices.

 

Besides, the best way to convert someone else is by example, not by salesmanship. To bring this back to wrestling, we have a number of excellent Christian coaches and wrestlers out there who live the life every day.

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So, now that the tide has turned, can we be considered courageous if we stand up for and defend a Christian's lifestyle in living out their religion (which some here have purported to not be a choice)?

 

See real-time, governmental tide turning here - http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013 ... tian-Faith

 

This link is about proselytizing faith, that is, trying to convert other soldiers. This is not about defending a lifestyle, unless that lifestyle demands conversion of others. In a civil societies with many different religions like ours, we defend people's religious (or nonreligious) choices.

 

Besides, the best way to convert someone else is by example, not by salesmanship. To bring this back to wrestling, we have a number of excellent Christian coaches and wrestlers out there who live the life every day.

 

Grapplefan - You are absolutely right. We have many folks in wrestling who are shining examples of Christianity. Thank the Lord that they share it in interviews. Otherwise, many of us would not know that was the case.

 

Now, regarding the article, I'll set aside for a moment the fact that they want to prohibit chaplains from sharing their faith (as that is the preliminary purpose of the chaplain - encouraging fellow believers and those with any questions about their faith), and let you know that sharing the Gospel is part of the lifestyle of Christianity, both in word and deed, provided the Christian takes seriously what Jesus said in Matthew 28 (aka the Great Commission).

 

Just so nothing is hidden from anyone else, Matthew 28:18-20 - 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

 

He said and did some other cool stuff, too. Like Matthew 22:37-40, where he sums up Christianity - 37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

 

This is Christianity, and I celebrate and am proud of guys like Quentin Wright, J.D. Bergman, Steve Fittery, and many others who boldly proclaim the true Gospel seemingly every chance they get. This day in age, that is truly courageous.

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And the best way to get attract others in this society is not to proselytize, but to behave in a way that demonstrates the faith. Yes, Christ did ask his disciples to proselytize, and almost all were martyred for it then, before the religion merged with ancient Roman customs to form an altered religion under Constantine, who proclaimed tolerance of all religions throughout the empire.

This is not ancient Rome, but the 21st century USA, a secular society with a separation of church and state. When simple sharing stops and indoctrination begins, someone will drag in our legal system. I feel the same about pushing any religious dogma onto others. Should the Islamic chaplain try to convert our soldiers? It's just not helpful or often successful.

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And the best way to get attract others in this society is not to proselytize, but to behave in a way that demonstrates the faith. Yes, Christ did ask his disciples to proselytize, and almost all were martyred for it then, before the religion merged with ancient Roman customs to form an altered religion under Constantine, who proclaimed tolerance of all religions throughout the empire.

This is not ancient Rome, but the 21st century USA, a secular society with a separation of church and state. When simple sharing stops and indoctrination begins, someone will drag in our legal system. I feel the same about pushing any religious dogma onto others. Should the Islamic chaplain try to convert our soldiers? It's just not helpful or often successful.

 

The purpose of Christianity, as stated in my previous post, is to love my God with all my heart, soul, and mind and to love my neighbor as myself. In doing that, I am proselytizing. The wrestlers I named and guys like Tebow don't proclaim the Gospel in public because they want limelight. The firmly believe that the Bible is true, take quite literally what Jesus said, and love people so much, they risk ridicule and mockery to say what they say. Since the aforementioned is what Christianity was, is, and always will be (and that has not changed), I suppose I will err on the side of "indoctrination" and continue to try love the way Christ did.

 

As an aside, proselytization is not limited to religion. The definition is to convert or attempt to convert someone from one religion, belief, or opinion to another. Your example of the Islamic chaplain happens every day...just not solely by religious folk. It happened all day here where humanists mocked Christians on this site and proclaimed their beliefs while decrying the inanity of Christians. You don't think they all hope Christians will either A. be quiet and/or go away or B. finally see the scientific / humanist light?

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It seems that if there is any underlying hatred (and in some cases, overt), it's by liberals who hate Christians for their beliefs.

Odd, yet funny in an ironic sort of way.

 

I also don't get the idea of equating homosexuality with racial minorities. I know quite a few minorities who don't appreciate it in any way.

Race is "who you are", homosexuality is behavior.

 

Oh well, sorry for interrupting. You lefties keep on with your hating.

 

Religion is behavior as well. I'm a Christian who chooses to love as Christ did and will allow God the final say, and as such am a liberal (as are 95% of my Lutheran, Christian, congregation). There is no conservative church without hate, which is sad and very un-Christian, although few allow themselves to think critically enough to realize this. In 20 years this won't be a discussion anymore anyway, much the same a interracial marriage is no longer an issue (coincidentally, also a "choice") outside of the deep south.

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So, now that the tide has turned, can we be considered courageous if we stand up for and defend a Christian's lifestyle in living out their religion (which some here have purported to not be a choice)?

 

See real-time, governmental tide turning here - http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013 ... tian-Faith

 

You're assuming your view of Christianity is the only/right one. You know what happens when you ASSume...

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NJWC...you know what is funny...I am very much a conservative. My problem lies with people trying to limit the rights of people because they are attracted sexualy to the same sex. You can disagree with it, you can think it is gross....I know I don't exactly want to see it....but when you determine and control rights over it, then I have a problem with it. And I believe you will continue to see homosexuality all over the place until it is accepted. Also....you are darn right the media is making a big deal out of it.....and it is because they don't want it to be a big deal.....side note....I hate mainstream media....errrrr!!! :evil:

I also think a lot of people's arguments around this subject by relating it to morals and other "un-moral" acts like murder and rape, are trying so hard to make a point that they instantly lose credibility. Common sense guys....seriously....homosexuality should NEVER be compared or discussed in terms of morality with those types of things.

But you are right NJWC....you have a right to speak out about it, but just as you can TRY and draw conclusions about who I am as a person and what I may believe in because of my reaction to your comments, I and others can draw conclusions about who you are as a person and what you believe in because of your comments. So keep up the anti-homosexuality talk and you must expect to get the responses you are getting in return.

 

I do have an honest question.....what if your son or daughter was a homosexual....would you think that their rights should be different than yours and mine?

 

Big, for the millionth time, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH GAY MARRIAGE!! Sheesh! Have you not read any of my posts? This is the 2nd time you've attributed that statement to me, and I've refuted it. Where have I said I support discrimination against anyone?

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Because when you do....you open Pandora's box, literally.

 

Literally? so Pandora's box was real? but it's not even in the Bible!

 

jk, jk.

 

anyway, may be worth remembering that this "debate", in so much as there even is one, is not a liberal v conservative one; it's a generational one. look at the polls that show support for gay marriage by age. just a matter of time before all those 18-29 year olds grow up and everyone moves on.

 

Great point. Of the many, many Christians I know, only a handful are against gay marriage, and only a single digit percentage of those are under 55. This really won't be an issue at all in a few years, if it really is anymore anyway. And just wait until Rush comes out... 'cause you know its just a matter of time ;)

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You are right....my bad for thinking you wouldn't like gay marriage....should have realized that you just hate homosexuality and gays all together. Hope you don't have to deal with those gays to often. Enjoy living in your glass house there buddy.

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Nah, no celebration of homosexuality, lol. Now the guy's a friggin celebrity for his abnormal lifestyle, nothing more.

 

http://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles/ ... y/13516910

More to the point, they're celebrating the bravery he's shown in coming out in spite of the negative backlash he was sure to receive from fans, teammates, random people on thematforums.com, etc. If there wasn't a negative backlash, nobody would be celebrating the fact that he came out, there wouldn't be any need to. Theres a reason the number of known gay athletes in professional sports is so small, and it is not because they don't exist. There is a reason no straight men pretend to be gay, but a ton of gay men pretend to be straight.

 

 

I know that the moderator doesn't want us to go there, but you asked.

 

Irreducible Complexity:

 

 

http://evidencepress.com/articles/ultim ... omplexity/

 

Seriously?

 

http://www.talkdesign.org/faqs/icdmyst/ICDmyst.html

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Your point? It says "might" all over your web page.

 

The odds of inorganic matter assembling themselves into living organisms defies reason.

 

Take another looksy.

 

Intelligent Design IS intelligent!

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You are right....my bad for thinking you wouldn't like gay marriage....should have realized that you just hate homosexuality and gays all together. Hope you don't have to deal with those gays to often. Enjoy living in your glass house there buddy.

 

 

Okay, so I called you out on fabricating statements that I allegedly made, and you finally admit you made them up. Now you're going to move on to fabricating my "hatred" of gays altogether? You don't stop, and you're always wrong. Where have I expressed hatred towards gays? I work in NYC, I'm surrounded by homosexuals all the time. I have no problem with them. I find their lifestyle deviant, but that's my opinion and nothing more. I don't discriminate in any way against any one, and I try to treat everyone the same.

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