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lu1979

Team Race Down to the Wire

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What is the theory behind the view that Russia is not sending its best team or at least close to the best? Did they want to give their Olympians a rest? If so, why did they want it. Out Olympians are competing, except one. Maybe they guys they brought are in fact very close to the Olympians and the coaches believed they do well. I don't see any reason why Russia, who presumably has more control over their athletes than does the US, would not want to win a world championship.

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3 hours ago, lu1979 said:

Tomorrow the Men's FS wraps up - Currently the scores stand at (this is with all earned points already assigned) EDITED BASED ON INFO FROM LATER POSTS

Russia - 163 pts

USA - 168 pts

Iran - 151 pts

Highest points each team can score if they win all their matches:

Russia - 173

USA - 173

Iran - 171

Russia has one guy wrestling for Gold (97) and 1 for Bronze(70).  Iran has 1 wrestling for Bronze (97) and 1 in reparcharge (70) and the USA has 1 wrestling for Gold (97)

For the US to win we need Snyder to beat Sadulaev.  If Snyder loses and the Russian bronze guy loses also US & Russia can tie  at 168 pts.  If that happens Iran could win if both their guys take bronze.

If Russia wins both matches they have the team title. If Snyder loses to Sad and the Russian 70 kg loses US & Russia tie.  

 

What is the breakdown of points for 1st thru 10th place? Though I have watched for years, I haven't ever seen the breakdown.

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7 minutes ago, NJDan said:

What is the theory behind the view that Russia is not sending its best team or at least close to the best? Did they want to give their Olympians a rest? If so, why did they want it. Out Olympians are competing, except one. Maybe they guys they brought are in fact very close to the Olympians and the coaches believed they do well. I don't see any reason why Russia, who presumably has more control over their athletes than does the US, would not want to win a world championship.

I'd be curious about if their financial incentives were affected. 

My take on Saduleav is that he's holding down the p4p best on earth spot and for reasons of pride (good or bad) just can't bring himself to sit out a worlds, especially if he's chasing the greatest ever title.

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Spladle08 doesn't know about rankings. He just guesses.
I try not to respond to you because you're clearly ridiculous and some posters have DM'd me asking me to be kind because you may be an old man with deteriorating mental health so I've just stopped responding .

However in regards to this posts.
I genuinely don't give 2-sh*ts about flo-rankings.
I know the weights in general and the top 5 or so at each weight.
At 74kg especially they have several guys more capable than Bizhoev, cool that he got the nod, he wrestled well.....
But like the ranking series events.... Flo rankings don't mean much, when it comes to who's the most talented.

(In the case of 125kg which somebody said they had a wrestle-off.... For some reason they struggle at heavy)

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5 minutes ago, spladle08 said:

I try not to respond to you because you're clearly ridiculous and some posters have DM'd me asking me to be kind because you may be an old man with deteriorating mental health so I've just stopped responding .

However in regards to this posts.
I genuinely don't give 2-sh*ts about flo-rankings.
I know the weights in general and the top 5 or so at each weight.
At 74kg especially they have several guys more capable than Bizhoev, cool that he got the nod, he wrestled well.....
But like the ranking series events.... Flo rankings don't mean much, when it comes to who's the most talented.

(In the case of 125kg which somebody said they had a wrestle-off.... For some reason they struggle at heavy)

Fine, you reject Flo. But if you had checked ANY rankings you would not have made such a foolish statement. You can tell the other posters (assuming that you are not just making them up, too, which is unlikely) that I am getting younger all the time.

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16 minutes ago, hammerlockthree said:

I'd be curious about if their financial incentives were affected. 

My take on Saduleav is that he's holding down the p4p best on earth spot and for reasons of pride (good or bad) just can't bring himself to sit out a worlds, especially if he's chasing the greatest ever title.

That might be true about Sadulaev, but why wouldn't it be true about their other Olympic champs, too? Maybe Sidakov feared losing to Dake.

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1 hour ago, NJDan said:

That might be true about Sadulaev, but why wouldn't it be true about their other Olympic champs, too? Maybe Sidakov feared losing to Dake.

I think it might not be true about their other olympic champs because they have an ultra elitist culture. they only guy who doesn't scoff at the rest of the world is the one who has to worry about being the best wrestler who ever lived. If another guy on the team could outpace Sad in terms of world and olympic titles by the time it was all done I bet they would be competing. 

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11 minutes ago, hammerlockthree said:

I think it might not be true about their other olympic champs because they have an ultra elitist culture. they only guy who doesn't scoff at the rest of the world is the one who has to worry about being the best wrestler who ever lived. If another guy on the team could outpace Sad in terms of world and olympic titles by the time it was all done I bet they would be competing. 

Obviously not competing this year hurts his chances but what about Sidakov?  How old is he?

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Sorry if this has been discussed, but can the Russian Team actually win a medal since they are currently not representing their country.   Clearly their team may technically be good enough to medal, but if the restrictions prevent national recognition wouldn’t that possibly mean their team would be skipped over for any team placement?

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5 minutes ago, MadMardigain said:

Sorry if this has been discussed, but can the Russian Team actually win a medal since they are currently not representing their country.   Clearly their team may technically be good enough to medal, but if the restrictions prevent national recognition wouldn’t that possibly mean their team would be skipped over for any team placement?

I hadn't thought about this and its a real bitch of a confound in the discussion......

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18 minutes ago, MadMardigain said:

Sorry if this has been discussed, but can the Russian Team actually win a medal since they are currently not representing their country.   Clearly their team may technically be good enough to medal, but if the restrictions prevent national recognition wouldn’t that possibly mean their team would be skipped over for any team placement?

Its a really good question.

If the Russian suspension means anything at all, it has to *at least* mean that the country isn't eligible for a team medal. 

Otherwise who would even accept the medal -- and on whose behalf?  

 

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3 minutes ago, BAC said:

Its a really good question.

If the Russian suspension means anything at all, it has to *at least* mean that the country isn't eligible for a team medal. 

Otherwise who would even accept the medal -- and on whose behalf?  

 

I don't think they care about that at all, i think the only issue is if the gangsters funding the program care about 2021 worlds

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Just now, MadMardigain said:

If it’s any consolation an argument can be made that our 125 may not have been our A representative either, and look how he’s done lately.  

And our C pinned the champ last time they met.

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2 hours ago, ched64 said:

What is the breakdown of points for 1st thru 10th place? Though I have watched for years, I haven't ever seen the breakdown.

Ret to Aztec gave us this info on the "team scoring" topic

From Article 33 of the UWW Rules (page 26):

1st — 25

2nd — 20

3rd-3rd — 15

5th-5th — 10

7th — 8

8th — 6

9th — 4

10th — 2

In the case of a tie, it's most first places, then most second places, etc. 

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1 hour ago, Mokoma said:

Obviously not competing this year hurts his chances but what about Sidakov?  How old is he?

Z Sidakov is only 25 years old and has 3 world level Golds already. (2 Worlds + Olympics) - if he stays healthy he could go for a long time.

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56 minutes ago, BAC said:

Its a really good question.

If the Russian suspension means anything at all, it has to *at least* mean that the country isn't eligible for a team medal. 

Otherwise who would even accept the medal -- and on whose behalf?  

 

Nomad is under the impression that the team award still goes to them under the RWF banner.  And Russia just won’t get any of the connected IOC/UWW reward from any team wins.

 I’m not sure I like giving any added team recognition in an individual based sport under this suspension since it’s still providing some level of credit to the offending nation.  Seemed like the idea of the punishment was the allow a path for eligible individuals without giving any added national tie-in. To me it seems any team award at an individual based sporting event is more national tie-in than necessary.  Even if they are pretending it’s falling under a RWF banner.   

With that I’m good with letting the eligible wrestlers get the individal accolades they deserve.  I guess I’m just annoyed a big deal was made out of the national punishment, but the follow through falls flat on some levels.  

Edited by MadMardigain

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24 minutes ago, MadMardigain said:

 I guess I’m just annoyed a big deal was made out of the national punishment, but the follow through falls flat on some levels.  

It falls flat on all levels - a slap on the wrist that looks more like a pat on the ass. 

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There really are only 2 matches that matter for team score (we can assume Iran gets Elahi repechage win & Goleij bronze)

      --Elahi vs Zherbaev for bronze at 70 

      --Sad vs Snyder for gold at 97

If Sad beats Snyder, then Elahi vs Zherbaev is for first place between Iran and Russia.

If Snyder pulls the upset, USA is first place.

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, ched64 said:

What is the breakdown of points for 1st thru 10th place? Though I have watched for years, I haven't ever seen the breakdown.

25-20-15-15-10-10-8-6-4-2 (two bronze and two fifths)

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5 hours ago, lu1979 said:

Z Sidakov is only 25 years old and has 3 world level Golds already. (2 Worlds + Olympics) - if he stays healthy he could go for a long time.

Thanks!  Seems to me a win over Dake this worlds would have put him in some really elite company at that age…

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