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Team Race Down to the Wire

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8 hours ago, NJDan said:

What is the theory behind the view that Russia is not sending its best team or at least close to the best? Did they want to give their Olympians a rest? If so, why did they want it. Out Olympians are competing, except one. Maybe they guys they brought are in fact very close to the Olympians and the coaches believed they do well. I don't see any reason why Russia, who presumably has more control over their athletes than does the US, would not want to win a world championship.

Comments by Russian coaches on the selection process were posted some weeks back. They basically gave the olympians the option of whether they wanted to compete or not then chose the rest based on who was healthy and ready and did well in recent challenge matches. Russia has always placed less emphasis on worlds in terms of training, conditioning, preparation, etc.--especially in the first worlds after the Olympics. 

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There really are only 2 matches that matter for team score (we can assume Iran gets Elahi repechage win & Goleij bronze)

      --Elahi vs Zherbaev for bronze at 70 

      --Sad vs Snyder for gold at 97

If Sad beats Snyder, then Elahi vs Zherbaev is for first place between Iran and Russia.

If Snyder pulls the upset, USA is first place.

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41 minutes ago, maligned said:

There really are only 2 matches that matter for team score (we can assume Iran gets Elahi repechage win & Goleij bronze)

      --Elahi vs Zherbaev for bronze at 70 

      --Sad vs Snyder for gold at 97

If Sad beats Snyder, then Elahi vs Zherbaev is for first place between Iran and Russia.

If Snyder pulls the upset, USA is first place.

Thank you. Very intense then. Most likely outcome it all comes down to that all important bronze medal match between Iran and Russia. 

Observationally, Iran has been very impressive on the whole this tournament. 

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4 hours ago, maligned said:

There really are only 2 matches that matter for team score (we can assume Iran gets Elahi repechage win & Goleij bronze)

      --Elahi vs Zherbaev for bronze at 70 

      --Sad vs Snyder for gold at 97

If Sad beats Snyder, then Elahi vs Zherbaev is for first place between Iran and Russia.

If Snyder pulls the upset, USA is first place.

Wow. Elahi got beat in the repechage. The best Iran can do now is 162, so they're out of it with Russia and the US already at 163 and 168.

Now if Zherbaev gets bronze at 70 for Russia, Sad vs Snyder becomes winner take all for the team title with both of us on 168.

However, if Zherbaev loses, the US actually wraps it up before the big showdown. Sadulaev winning would only tie the score. Russia would draw even at 3 golds a piece, but we would have 2 silvers to 1 and win the title via that tiebreaker.

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2 minutes ago, maligned said:

Wow. Elahi got beat in the repechage. The best Iran can do now is 162, so they're out of it with Russia and the US already at 163 and 168.

Now if Zherbaev gets bronze at 70 for Russia, Sad vs Snyder becomes winner take all for the team title with both of us on 168.

However, if Zherbaev loses, the US actually wraps it up before the big showdown. Sadulaev winning would only tie the score. Russia would draw even at 3 golds a piece, but we would have 2 silvers to 1 and win the title via that tiebreaker.

Lets go Zherbaev.  I'd love to see Snyder win all the marbles!

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Scenarios, given the Iranian lost to the Armenian in the repechage at 70kg:

USA wins if:

  1. RWF 70kg loses, OR
  2. RWF 70kg wins AND Snyder beats Sadulaev for Gold.

RWF wins if:

  1. RWF 70kg wins AND Sadulaev beats Snyder for Gold.

RWF must win the 70kg bronze bout to put Sadulaev in a position to beat Snyder to win the team title.

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5 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

Looks like the US went 2-1 with Russia, Snyder/Sadulaev remains.   3-3 with Iran.  Iran went 2-1 with Russia.

In fact, all 3 nations went exactly 32-8 in individual matches with 3 gold medals. Russia ends up with 8 medals compared to 7 for the other two and eke out the team title.

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23 hours ago, MadMardigain said:

Nomad is under the impression that the team award still goes to them under the RWF banner.  And Russia just won’t get any of the connected IOC/UWW reward from any team wins.

 I’m not sure I like giving any added team recognition in an individual based sport under this suspension since it’s still providing some level of credit to the offending nation.  Seemed like the idea of the punishment was the allow a path for eligible individuals without giving any added national tie-in. To me it seems any team award at an individual based sporting event is more national tie-in than necessary.  Even if they are pretending it’s falling under a RWF banner.   

With that I’m good with letting the eligible wrestlers get the individual accolades they deserve.  I guess I’m just annoyed a big deal was made out of the national punishment, but the follow through falls flat on some levels.  

Looks like you're right about the team title to go to the "Neutral Athletes of the Russian Wrestling Federation."  What I can't tell, though, is whether this is a UWW-sanctioned award, or is it more like the Olympics, where media keeps track of the score but the UWW neither recognizes a team winner nor gives an award to it?  

I'm guessing its the latter, because I'm not convinced that the UWW is allowed to issue a team award to this fictional team under the ruling of the Court of Arbitration of Sport's ruling.  I'm not aware of any precedent since the ban started where the performances of individual "Russian Olympic Committee"-type athletes were aggregated to create a team score.  Its nowhere to be found in the CAS ruling, either (CAS Award: WADA vs RUSADA | World Anti-Doping Agency (wada-ama.org)).

That makes sense, too.  As you correctly point out, the WADA/CAS ruling is that Russian bans from competing, and a carve-out exception is made for individual athletes who can show they have no connection to their institutionalized doping program, which means they can compete for individual glory.  That also extends to team sports, e.g. volleyball.   But I do not believe there is a team title to be given athletes who are competing individually, because per WADA, there is no team that exists.

I'd be curious if I'm wrong about the title though, i.e. there is actually a UWW-awarded team trophy.  If there is, and it went to an entity that doesn't even exist, then I think UWW screwed up.  

 

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