Snyder/Sad Strategy Predictions

[denger 339]

2 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

The only reasonable strategy left after that match is to go full-on sumo and try to win on size and conditioning. Good luck with that. That was a systematic ass-kicking of the highest order. Sadulaev did literally everything better and left no room for even one legit attempt by Snyder even as the clock wound down and any hope evaporated. That must've been the most frustrating match of Snyder's career. What do you even take away from that to go work on?

Throwback to 2017 strategy? Maybe if we can get Sad to buy into some Dake philosophy, he can get younger and smaller. 

[Gio 3]

33 minutes ago, MizzouGrad said:

We need to accept that Russia is a superior wrestling nation and even the mighty Cael Sanderson has zero answers for Sad. I really wish America would adopt Russia/Iranian best practices into our style. 

Cael himself acted quite similar to KS when Calel met Sajid Sajidov - and he was much more primitive FS wrestler aompared to even KS himself - avoyded all ties, escaped handfighting etc. imho he was lucky to grab his olimpic gold because he didnt met Sajidov. It is interesting what he able to teach KS at freestyle>
At other hand you have DT - unique and perfect techincal wrestler - you wouldnt see someone like him with his folkstyle stuff at ground - he is truely awesome to watch 

Edited October 5, 2021 by Gio

[wrestlingnerd 3,000]

20 minutes ago, MizzouGrad said:

Of course that's Dan Gable's answer. That's like asking the hammer what is a nail - it's everything to the hammer. 

We need to accept th

at Russia is a superior wrestling nation and even the mighty Cael Sanderson has zero answers for Sad. I really wish America would adopt Russia/Iranian best practices into our style. 

 

I like Gable's strategy better. Not that I think it works, but it's worth a shot. Snyder is never going to out-Russia Sadulaev. He needs to focus on where he is better (size, strength, conditioning) and not try to shore up his deficiencies to beat a guy who's at a different level at that (and, incredibly, still improving). 

[Voice_of_the_Quakers 130]

I'm not sure Snyder is bigger or stronger than Sad anymore.  Sad looks really, really thick for the weight now that he's been up at 97 for several years.

[MizzouGrad 137]

Just now, wrestlingnerd said:

I like Gable's strategy better. Not that I think it works, but it's worth a shot. Snyder is never going to out-Russia Sadulaev. He needs to focus on where he is better (size, strength, conditioning) and not try to shore up his deficiencies to beat a guy who's at a different level at that (and, incredibly, still improving). 

The Russians don't get worn out by Cary Kolat and Dan Gable stutter steps. They do exactly what Sadulaev did: They maintain good position and out handfight you. Kyle beat Sadulaev 1x when Sadulaev looked very undersized for the weight. Since then, it's been pure domination. I just watched the match: Kyle not only didn't sniff a leg, he was lucky he didn't get pancaked for 4 on the edge. Kyle did a couple half-shots and generally looked scared to attack the legs. 

Jordan was smart. Avoid the handfight and use your superior athleticism to beat the Russians. Once his speed dipped a bit, Sidakov started beating him. Kyle doesn't have superior athleticism. The only 97kg we have with elite athleticism is J'den and he looked way too passive versus Iran. So I have no idea what we do, but Kyle isn't the answer at 97KG. 

[wrestlingnerd 3,000]

Nobody is the answer at 97 kg. Cox? I once drank the Koolaid of Cox being better than Snyder, and that may have once been true, but with Snyder at NLWC and Cox clinging on to KJ and having no consistent world-class training partners, I don't see it anymore. Cox admits that his style is opportunistic and he (probably too) patiently waits for an opening. Sadulaev doesn't give openings. Cox is also not the answer. The world doesn't have an answer. Snyder being a near lock for silver every time is still a great thing, and I wouldn't want that to change anytime soon.

[77again 120]

43 minutes ago, spladle08 said:

I wouldve liked Satiev to be in here

 

You are so correct. Buvaisar's 9 world titles bumps Smith out of top 5, in my opinion.

[NJDan 1,070]

21 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

I like Gable's strategy better. Not that I think it works, but it's worth a shot. Snyder is never going to out-Russia Sadulaev. He needs to focus on where he is better (size, strength, conditioning) and not try to shore up his deficiencies to beat a guy who's at a different level at that (and, incredibly, still improving). 

What makes you think that KS is stronger than Sad? Looked to me like KS could not move Sad at all. Plus, Sad routinely flips guys out of chest wraps, which, I think shows mad strength.

[ShakaAloha 418]

14 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

Nobody is the answer at 97 kg. Cox? I once drank the Koolaid of Cox being better than Snyder, and that may have once been true, but with Snyder at NLWC and Cox clinging on to KJ and having no consistent world-class training partners, I don't see it anymore. Cox admits that his style is opportunistic and he (probably too) patiently waits for an opening. Sadulaev doesn't give openings. Cox is also not the answer. The world doesn't have an answer. Snyder being a near lock for silver every time is still a great thing, and I wouldn't want that to change anytime soon.

The answer is AJ Ferrari and his 665 lbs. deadlift.  Give him a few years.

[wrestlingnerd 3,000]

14 minutes ago, NJDan said:

What makes you think that KS is stronger than Sad? Looked to me like KS could not move Sad at all. Plus, Sad routinely flips guys out of chest wraps, which, I think shows mad strength.

We've all seen how strong Snyder is since he loves to Tweet his big lifts. I've also seen Sad lift, if you want to call it that. I understand wrestling is not powerlifting. But strength matters. When you're looking for an edge against the Tank, even the thinnest edge is worth exploiting. 

Sad's strength is borne of his impeccable position. He is obviously as strong as he needs to be functionally for wrestling. Snyder has the potential to be stronger in that way, just doesn't have the position and movement of Sadulaev. 

[simple 296]

18 minutes ago, NJDan said:

What makes you think that KS is stronger than Sad? Looked to me like KS could not move Sad at all. Plus, Sad routinely flips guys out of chest wraps, which, I think shows mad strength.

He also doesn’t have a “size” advantage. They’re the same size. Almost mirror images of each other physically 

[Gio 3]

26 minutes ago, 77again said:

Buvaisar's 9 world titles bumps Smith out of top 5, in my opinion.

 in russia greatness of wrestler counts by his Olimpic titles. For example Sidakov even missed this world С after olimpic gold. In US you guys counts world=Olimpic but they are not equal

[wrestlingnerd 3,000]

Just now, simple said:

He also doesn’t have a “size” advantage. They’re the same size. Almost mirror images of each other physically 

Snyder is both bigger and taller, no matter what the published stats say. I can't find the picture I remember where they're standing next to each other but will post it if I can find it. Anyway, Sadulaev came up from 189 and famously doesn't cut weight (his coach and he have both stated that in interviews). Snyder cuts to make 97 kg and has wrestled in the 230s in college, if I recall correctly. At least the high 220s.

[Gio 3]

3 minutes ago, simple said:

He also doesn’t have a “size” advantage. They’re the same size. Almost mirror images of each other physically 

Sad have technique and speed edge, Snyder is stronger and have better cardio. 
By the age speed and cardio tends to decrease so we cant see what we will see in future 

[wrestlingnerd 3,000]

2 minutes ago, Gio said:

 in russia greatness of wrestler counts by his Olimpic titles. For example Sidakov even missed this world С after olimpic gold. In US you guys counts world=Olimpic but they are not equal

They're not equal anywhere, including here. Russia probably weights Olympics a bit more since they have entire closets full of world golds and we don't. But Olympic > World anywhere.

[wrestlingnerd 3,000]

1 minute ago, Gio said:

Sad have technique and speed edge, Snyder is stronger and have better cardio. 
By the age speed and cardio tends to decrease so we cant see what we will see in future 

I don't think he has a cardio edge anymore. That was about 15-20 lbs ago when Sad was smaller and coming off of Ramadan. After their last match, Sadulaev didn't appear exhausted at all and Snyder didn't exactly have fresh legs, to say the least.

[Gio 3]

1 hour ago, wrestlingnerd said:

I don't think he has a cardio edge anymore.

Hard to tell, this time Sad done good work to tie Snyder in handfighting , Snyder just hadnt ways to show his cardio /stamina because he was scared of speed and counters of Sadulaev. 
I think KS have edge at cardio because he showed it at olimpics at end of that match. Also that match against Goleij was really hard for Snyder - first time i ever saw someone wreared out KS 

Edited October 5, 2021 by Gio

[HawkY 112]

For all the talk of this being the greatest rivalry. It's beginning to look like most of the rivalries that these great wrestlers had, one sided.  Aside from Bruce Gob which was 10-6, I can't think of many competitive ones. 

[DocBZ 191]

Honest question...with Nickal doing mainly MMA at 185lbs now who exactly does Snyder have that can challenge him at NLWC? DT? OK sure....but he's a full 2 weights below him or 22 lbs and will be 31 soon. The best 3 training partners for him in the US are probably Gable, J'den and Kollin Moore or maybe Zahid.

Edited October 5, 2021 by DocBZ

[de4856 370]

Clearly SnyderMan had a disappointing match, and the strategy of trying to wear down Sads by simply hand fighting didn’t work. So obviously Kyle and crew will need to go back and re-think and re-evaluate these last two matches of these championships, as well as re-examine his match with Sads in Tokyo. 
But as far as should Kyle leave the NLWC, I don’t think that would be a good idea. I mean where would he go, that could match what he’s getting at NLWC? As far as how we train and prepare for these championships, I think we could, and probably do emphasize and incorporate things into our training and preparation, but I think that overall we are doing very well. I mean we sent 5 guys to Tokyo, and we came back with 5 medals, two of which were Gold. Here at this championship we had 7 medals, three champions, and three finalists. Additionally with our style of training we also have seen a fair amount of success on the Junior and Cadet level. I am sure that our coaches are always looking for ways to improve and get better, and hopefully we will. Sometimes though, it just comes down to who the athlete is. I mean look at what Gable Steveson did at Tokyo, and he basically just came off a college season, with time to prepare afterwards.

[bnwtwg 1,034]

1 hour ago, DocBZ said:

Honest question...with Nickal doing mainly MMA at 185lbs now who exactly does Snyder have that can challenge him at NLWC? DT? OK sure....but he's a full 2 weights below him or 22 lbs and will be 31 soon. The best 3 training partners for him in the US are probably Gable, J'den and Kollin Moore or maybe Zahid.

So you have to remember that all the top wrestlers do not have an equal in the room. That said: Taylor, Varner, Cael, Nickal, Kerkvliet, Nevills all can bring a good workout for Snyder in different facets.

[bnwtwg 1,034]

I would like to say that I'm disappointed Snyder didn't try to run the high crotch more. He was close at the olympics and hoped that could have been the secret sauce today.

[BTC 107]

5 hours ago, 77again said:

Kyle Snyder is one of the top 20 freestyle wrestlers in the world of all time.

His problem is that he is stuck in a perpetual battle with a top five wrestler of all time. Medved, Burroughs, John Smith, Sergei Beloglazov, Sadulaev.

Yea thats highly debatable 

[DocBZ 191]

1 hour ago, bnwtwg said:

So you have to remember that all the top wrestlers do not have an equal in the room. That said: Taylor, Varner, Cael, Nickal, Kerkvliet, Nevills all can bring a good workout for Snyder in different facets.

Sure I get that but you only get better by competing against better opponents. Part of the reason why women in all sports routinely compete against men. Coaching is important...but it can only get you so far. I'd actually like to see him train with Gable as I think they would both benefit from it as would the US and they wouldn't have to worry about competing against each other at trials.

Edited October 5, 2021 by DocBZ

[uncle bernard 1,113]

12 minutes ago, DocBZ said:

Sure I get that but you only get better by competing against better opponents. Part of the reason why women in all sports routinely compete against men. Coaching is important...but it can only get you so far. I'd actually like to see him train with Gable as I think they would both benefit from it as would the US and they wouldn't have to worry about competing against each other at trials.

This isn't true. Partners are the least of his problems. I don't think his ceiling can match Sadulaev's.