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Jimmy Cinnabon

Snyder and Taylor - need new RTC?

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IMO Snyder has lost a step on his attacks; he seems slower and thus more tentative to shoot. It also looks like he is thicker, maybe due to heavy lifting. To beat Sadulaev, I think he needs to go Yazdani on him; that is learn to force an undertook and use his power to drive Sadulaev out. If he worked that strategy for a year, he could get pretty good at it. Much of success in wrestling is just controlling situations, like ties, better than your opponent. Iran works constantly on their undertook series, and it easy to see the positive results. What he has to offer right now against Sadulaev isn't going to win in the future unless he develops a new attack. Also, constantly digging for underhooks will prevent him from going on the shot clock which happened to him twice. Sadulaev NEVER shot. Something new is needed.

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Somebody asked the strategy to this match in a different post and I said the last match left people questioning who was better, so the most likely change we see here is Saduleav trying to get some separation to reinforce who is the actual better wrestler.
And he did that. 
Snyder pretty consistently beats everyone not named Saduleav (save for Mohamedian and Sharifov if you want)  
He's not slower, underperforming, not conditioned, etc etc etc... 
He's just not as good. I have no doubt Saduleav (like Cox vs the guys we see him beat 3-2) could turn it on at any point and tech Snyder, but that's just not how he wrestles anyone.... he takes opportunities when presented, and if he wins 8-1 or 6-3 he's content

(Note* the Olympic match fooled me just like everyone else, I really thought Snyder was getting so much Cael Infused Religious Kool-Aid that he was closing the gap...... Not the case)

Edited by spladle08

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4 hours ago, jross said:

Taylor may not beat Yazdani again.  Yazdani is wrestling smart and has conditioning.  This will be interesting.

This is what I saw as well .. no more 2nd periodic heroics against a gassed opponent.

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11 hours ago, spladle08 said:

You might be onto something.

Decision losses for silver medals this week and back to back finals in the the Olympics and World Championships clearly signify a problem with their training situations.

A move to Oregon State or maybe Clarion may produce a more desirable product.

 

 

Cinnabuns' original question is idiotic.  Just because they both lost in a World final, doesn't mean they should blow things up and find a new place to train.  Where are DT and KS going to go to get better training?  It's not like either of them wants to move to Dagestan.

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1 hour ago, herma48852 said:

This is what I saw as well .. no more 2nd periodic heroics against a gassed opponent.

I'll believe that if Yazdani repeats. Americans often win with late match heroics vs gassed opponents. It's a harder-not-smarter thing that Americans are generally really...ummm....good at. 

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Rumor is that these two "losers" (mere multiple time World and Olympic Champions) have embraced the wisdom of Wrestling Forum advice and sought out new scenery and off-the-grid RTCs.

Upon returning from Oslo, they reportedly packed small handmade duffle bags and headed into a foreign desert—cloud hidden, whereabouts unknown—on horses with no name, where they plan to evacuate their full bellies and empty their conscious minds toward the goal of becoming grappling Zen masters.

They will train with powerful punching kangaroos (who have been bred to use Iranian under-hooks and Russian two-on-one ties), beneath the slowly shifting shadows of Saguaro Cacti.   They will push and pull  and push back some more against dancing Eurasian Brown Bears.  They will shoot thousands of single leg takedowns on legless Rattlesnakes and Sidewinders.  

They will hypnotize Desert Owls with their focus and gaze, learn to scramble with the quickest Indian Grey Mongoose, and hand fight for hours with a rarely seen but legendary nomadic and crepuscular Octopus who dwells in the pool of a shimmering oasis. 

After a long, hard, and painfully cold winter of training that ends with a punishing "vacation" to the Arctic tundra and a tournament against a team of veteran Polar Bears, they will return to civilization for the World Team Trials in Spring of 2022 before seizing the opportunity—and their destiny—to dispatch their respective Iranian and Russian nemeses in Serbia at the World Championships!

Ad astra per aspera!

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9 minutes ago, dmm53 said:

Rumor is that these two "losers" (mere multiple time World and Olympic Champions) have embraced the wisdom of Wrestling Forum advice and sought out new scenery and off-the-grid RTCs.

Upon returning from Oslo, they reportedly packed small handmade duffle bags and headed into a foreign desert—cloud hidden, whereabouts unknown—on horses with no name, where they plan to evacuate their full bellies and empty their conscious minds toward the goal of becoming grappling Zen masters.

They will train with powerful punching kangaroos (who have been bred to use Iranian under-hooks and Russian two-on-one ties), beneath the slowly shifting shadows of Saguaro Cacti.   They will push and pull  and push back some more against dancing Eurasian Brown Bears.  They will shoot thousands of single leg takedowns on legless Rattlesnakes and Sidewinders.  

They will hypnotize Desert Owls with their focus and gaze, learn to scramble with the quickest Indian Grey Mongoose, and hand fight for hours with a rarely seen but legendary nomadic and crepuscular Octopus who dwells in the pool of a shimmering oasis. 

After a long, hard, and painfully cold winter of training that ends with a punishing "vacation" to the Arctic tundra and a tournament against a team of veteran Polar Bears, they will return to civilization for the World Team Trials in Spring of 2022 before seizing the opportunity—and their destiny—to dispatch their respective Iranian and Russian nemeses in Serbia at the World Championships!

Ad astra per aspera!

How would hypnotizing Desert Owls help?

 

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7 minutes ago, NJDan said:

How would hypnotizing Desert Owls help?

 

It would be an emblem and measure of the intensity of their focus and concentration.   And, of course, recall how scary Tony Ramos' stare downs were to some of his Big Ten opponents.  If you can hypnotize someone, well, you can likely control them; right?  

 

 

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On 10/6/2021 at 4:38 PM, fullnelson said:

IMO Snyder has lost a step on his attacks; he seems slower and thus more tentative to shoot. It also looks like he is thicker, maybe due to heavy lifting. To beat Sadulaev, I think he needs to go Yazdani on him; that is learn to force an undertook and use his power to drive Sadulaev out. If he worked that strategy for a year, he could get pretty good at it. Much of success in wrestling is just controlling situations, like ties, better than your opponent. Iran works constantly on their undertook series, and it easy to see the positive results. What he has to offer right now against Sadulaev isn't going to win in the future unless he develops a new attack. Also, constantly digging for underhooks will prevent him from going on the shot clock which happened to him twice. Sadulaev NEVER shot. Something new is needed.

One think I don't see proposed much is the impact of the new weigh in rules on Snyder. He's a huge 97 and we know he was cutting down from 230+ from his college days. We talked a lot about how the new rules coincided with Burroughs' decline at 74 and he looked great at 79 with the extra 10 lbs. Maybe Snyder is a tweener now. Not big enough for heavyweight, but the cut to 97 takes a lot out of him and he's not as powerful.

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13 hours ago, uncle bernard said:

One think I don't see proposed much is the impact of the new weigh in rules on Snyder. He's a huge 97 and we know he was cutting down from 230+ from his college days. We talked a lot about how the new rules coincided with Burroughs' decline at 74 and he looked great at 79 with the extra 10 lbs. Maybe Snyder is a tweener now. Not big enough for heavyweight, but the cut to 97 takes a lot out of him and he's not as powerful.

Finally, one person on this thread gets it right.

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On 10/6/2021 at 6:19 PM, spladle08 said:

I have no doubt Saduleav (like Cox vs the guys we see him beat 3-2) could turn it on at any point and tech Snyder, but that's just not how he wrestles anyone.... 

That's insane.  Its a game of inches between these two.  Sadulaev had exactly one moment where he broke through offensively, transitioning to a gut.  Sadulaev is a bit more positionally sound but Snyder has shown he can break through late.  There's no reason to think Sadulaev has some extra gear that, for whatever reason, he's never used; that's like saying Snyder can tech Sadulaev anytime if he just decides to "turn it on."  It may be fair to say Sadulaev is more defensive against Snyder, but that's just because he realizes that is his best key to victory against his strongest opponent.  Reasonable people can disagree as to the likelihood of Snyder breaking through again but a typical match will be within a few points.  No one's teching Snyder anytime soon.

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3 minutes ago, BAC said:

That's insane.  Its a game of inches between these two.  Sadulaev had exactly one moment where he broke through offensively, transitioning to a gut.  Sadulaev is a bit more positionally sound but Snyder has shown he can break through late.  There's no reason to think Sadulaev has some extra gear that, for whatever reason, he's never used; that's like saying Snyder can tech Sadulaev anytime if he just decides to "turn it on."  It may be fair to say Sadulaev is more defensive against Snyder, but that's just because he realizes that is his best key to victory against his strongest opponent.  Reasonable people can disagree as to the likelihood of Snyder breaking through again but a typical match will be within a few points.  No one's teching Snyder anytime soon.

I guess I was more-so saying (With a little exaggeration) when Saduleav needs to go score his own offense in matches (Snyder included) he scores. 
Sure he can't just come out and 10-0 Snyder inside a minute, but (And this is why I added Cox) in my hypothetical match I'm envisioning not "The world/olympic finals" ..... how do I explain this, I think the pressure of "Winning" these big matches keeps very capable  wrestlers from scoring more than necessary.
Cox clearly puts the pressure on himself, but we know if his challenge was go score 10pts in a match vs a capable opponent and you win 1million bucks, that dude has some offense. 
But if its "go win this match".... he's fine with 3-2 vs the same opponent. 
Guess thats what I'm saying, if Saduleav just was in a mood and said "I'm scoring 10pts today" I dont think Snyderman could stop him, I really don't 
but what have the scores been 
Snyder 6-5 in 17
Saduleav Pin in 18? 
Olympics Sad 6-3
Worlds Saduleave 6-0? 
I mean
He beat Hushtyn in the semis by 4 or 5, he's not going to go search for a tech when he doesn't need to, but if he's going after points, I have no doubt he could 
 

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