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Greco Worlds Thread ;)

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I like (but don't love) greco, but I am not a fan of forced par terre.  In general I'm against forced positions, similar to the clinch (although the forced par terre is not as punitive) back during the ball draw era for freestyle.  You shouldn't just be given advantage positions you didn't earn.

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1 minute ago, VakAttack said:

I like (but don't love) greco, but I am not a fan of forced par terre.  In general I'm against forced positions, similar to the clinch (although the forced par terre is not as punitive) back during the ball draw era for freestyle.  You shouldn't just be given advantage positions you didn't earn.

Agreed, positions should be earned.  But the rules are the rules...

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wrestlers are not just given forced par terre...

they earn the position with the way they wrestle...

there are times when i feel like the 3rd passivity call has been a little "forced", but, it does not bother me at all after the rule change that no points will be rewarded for the 3rd passivity... 

clearly it has been a point of emphasis this summer...

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6 minutes ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

Why not just alternate par terre for the 6 minutes since very little action from the feet happens. Neutral wrestling in greco is pretty much chest bumping and trying to dig underhooks.  It’s an awful product that only idiots like ljb can like. 

a nickels worth of advice for free...

stick to licking windows...

it is a better look overall for you...

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13 minutes ago, LJB said:

a nickels worth of advice for free...

stick to licking windows...

it is a better look overall for you...

Keep fighting the good fight, keep trying to convince others and probably yourself most of the time that greco is a good product. I guess your kid couldn’t cut it in the better more popular style, so you said try greco! America isn’t very good so you’ll have a shot at making a team or two.

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47 minutes ago, LJB said:

wrestlers are not just given forced par terre...

they earn the position with the way they wrestle...

there are times when i feel like the 3rd passivity call has been a little "forced", but, it does not bother me at all after the rule change that no points will be rewarded for the 3rd passivity... 

clearly it has been a point of emphasis this summer...

Fair enough.  I understand that it's more exciting this way.  Maybe I'm being a stick in the mud about it, given my general preference for fun over "this is how my granddaddy did it!" mentality.

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2 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Fair enough.  I understand that it's more exciting this way.  Maybe I'm being a stick in the mud about it, given my general preference for fun over "this is how my granddaddy did it!" mentality.

USAW went no forced par terre in age group several years ago...

trust me when i say forced par terre is much better and considerably more entertaining...

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11 minutes ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

Keep fighting the good fight, keep trying to convince others and probably yourself most of the time that greco is a good product. I guess your kid couldn’t cut it in the better more popular style, so you said try greco! America isn’t very good so you’ll have a shot at making a team or two.

17-0 combined record both styles at junior duals as a true cadet last june...

seriously...

you would appear less ridiculous if you just stuck to licking windows at the back of the bus...

 

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54 minutes ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

Neutral wrestling in greco is pretty much chest bumping and trying to dig underhooks.  It’s an awful product that only idiots like ljb can like. 

We should just listen to guys like you more often. You obviously possess some high level perspective. 

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1 hour ago, VakAttack said:

I like (but don't love) greco, but I am not a fan of forced par terre.  In general I'm against forced positions, similar to the clinch (although the forced par terre is not as punitive) back during the ball draw era for freestyle.  You shouldn't just be given advantage positions you didn't earn.

I understand and am sympathetic to this in theory (esp given the disadvantage smaller wrestlers have) . But greco becomes dangerously close to sumo without it,   greco should be about great throws pins. Its not fun watching someone push out and ref point their way to wins. With forced par terre  you get a chance for throws. 

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1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

I figured it out when he said what places they got at Fargo although now I forget what they were.   Not too many people kids with the same last name that placed.

Only my older son went to Fargo…

my younger one went to Hungary…

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Random assortment of thoughts after watching some of the matches. Writing this in between doing errands. I’m aware it’ll be long lol. 

I had a conversation with a different official than the one talked to about the Rau match. He swears up and down that many international refs are not calling passivity the way the rule book actually calls for.

Mainly due to the fact that the USA is the only only country with an actual set ref development system and far less nepotism than what’s normal overseas. (Though given what I’ve heard recently about some.. younger officials.. that’s extremely debatable)

He argued that they’re doing the wrestlers a disservice by calling it according to the actual rules. He and several other top officials also had strong opinions on the Greco reffing in Tokyo. And they’re not the type to criticize reffing that much in my experience. 

As far as our performance. Until decent Greco coaching becomes much more accessible to “average” kids. Consistent sustained improvement will be difficult. Greco United on Rokfin posted ten of the full time Greco clubs in the US. I know for a fact that in at least 3 of those locations. There is either similar/cheaper priced clubs with very good leg grabbing coaches much closer to actual population centers. 

For all the many flaws in the US system. It’s still produces talent from the sheer numbers and much more available decent coaching in leg grabbing. Along with the “travel team” athletes like Taylor and Dake were. You get the late bloomers or athletes who weren’t club rats from age 6, like a Burroughs or Kolin Moore who either win medals or provide strong depth from Cadet on up. High level Training is accessible to a much wider socio economic and demographic base.

Greco doesn’t have this. It either has only the “travel team” type guys. Who are a niche of a niche. Or guys who got kicked out of multiple colleges and/or switched to have a better chance to be competitive. It’s not a coincidence that the few Greco “late bloomers” like Ellis Coleman had the “normal” access to Greco coaching through his hs coach. Rather than only being able to get it by spending a bunch to travel.
 

Add in the wannabe tuff guy little man syndrome US Greco has right now.. that turns off many of the quieter Greco fans and technicians I know. You get the situation as it stands 
 

 

 

 

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47 minutes ago, ShakaAloha said:

I really hope Hancock wins bronze.  Maybe it could be what gets USA Wrestling to start supporting the Greco program.

Do you think it’s under-supported or just unpopular? Maybe both?

I really have no idea what USA Greco needs, but I really want Hancock to medal!

He’s been a bright spot for a while. I hope he breaks through for himself and for Team USA

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