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Wow! They did it for both Men and Women Freestyle. Suspicious why they don’t do it for Greco in particular? Not that I’d expect anybody to know. Anyone that does, I’d appreciate an answer.

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I don't think this is a hard one to figure out.  They have very clear data that show how many people have been tuning into the freestyle matches and they decided that the cost and effort to do the flozone bit would be justified to the estimated value they would generate to all the people tuning in.  However, when looking at how many people tune in to the Greco matches, they decided it was not worth the cost and effort.

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3 minutes ago, nom said:

I don't think this is a hard one to figure out.  They have very clear data that show how many people have been tuning into the freestyle matches and they decided that the cost and effort to do the flozone bit would be justified to the estimated value they would generate to all the people tuning in.  However, when looking at how many people tune in to the Greco matches, they decided it was not worth the cost and effort.

If this is the case, I’d love to hear it from Flo themselves. Something I’ve had to parse out in my head is Flo’s juxtaposition as a media production business with wrestling as a single vertical, and also as the primary tool for the advancement of Olympic wrestling fandom & involvement in the United States.

Part of me wants to be mad that they’re not investing in WFS and GR more, because that becomes a self-fulfilling cycle of less interest and thus less revenue or attention. But part of me is trying to accept that wrestling is already a niche sport and that I should be happy that they’re even leaving the computers running for the stream.

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Flow has been ignoring women's wrestling for a decade at least.

WCWAs in 2019, they didn't even record most of the matches.

I wrote them an email and got the response that was basically, "Too bad, so sad. Piss off."

Imagine the storm if they'd just failed to record most of the 2019 NCAA DI tournament?

Check the brackets yourself, only the semi finals and finals were recorded.

https://arena.flowrestling.org/event/3f93bf76-ce6c-6562-9d4f-9cb0ce46630f

 

Edited by Mike Parrish
Flo sucks

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On 10/7/2021 at 7:47 AM, moodybooty said:

the primary tool for the advancement of Olympic wrestling fandom & involvement in the United States.

Whose tool, though? They're trying to make money, and they have the data on what drives subscriptions. Flo's goal is to get more people to subscribe to Flo, not advance Olympic wrestling in the United States. I can only imagine the disparity in viewing numbers from freestyle to greco this past week. Some of that is because American wrestlers were all over the semis and medal rounds that aired during the day in men's and women's freestyle while the greco guys had their typical struggles. 

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59 minutes ago, IronChef said:

Whose tool, though? They're trying to make money, and they have the data on what drives subscriptions. Flo's goal is to get more people to subscribe to Flo, not advance Olympic wrestling in the United States. I can only imagine the disparity in viewing numbers from freestyle to greco this past week. Some of that is because American wrestlers were all over the semis and medal rounds that aired during the day in men's and women's freestyle while the greco guys had their typical struggles. 

Exactly — I agree completely. On a macro level, my thinking is that Flo taking a loss on offering a similar product for WFS & GR would lead to better resources and more exposure, which would lead to more interest, leading to a better team.

A better product, even — what would it mean for Flo to go out of their way to collect technique from world class Greco coaches overseas and offer the technique videos for free to wrestlers & coaches? Or for them to pay their female wrestlers more to show up for their fight cards? What kind of shift happens when the biggest media outlet in our sport is forcing the shift?

again — a pipe dream. Antithetical to FloSports, a company. But feels better to dream than to shrug it off and wait for incremental change. 

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1 hour ago, IronChef said:

Whose tool, though? They're trying to make money, and they have the data on what drives subscriptions. Flo's goal is to get more people to subscribe to Flo, not advance Olympic wrestling in the United States. I can only imagine the disparity in viewing numbers from freestyle to greco this past week. Some of that is because American wrestlers were all over the semis and medal rounds that aired during the day in men's and women's freestyle while the greco guys had their typical struggles. 

 

45 minutes ago, moodybooty said:

Exactly — I agree completely. On a macro level, my thinking is that Flo taking a loss on offering a similar product for WFS & GR would lead to better resources and more exposure, which would lead to more interest, leading to a better team.

A better product, even — what would it mean for Flo to go out of their way to collect technique from world class Greco coaches overseas and offer the technique videos for free to wrestlers & coaches? Or for them to pay their female wrestlers more to show up for their fight cards? What kind of shift happens when the biggest media outlet in our sport is forcing the shift?

again — a pipe dream. Antithetical to FloSports, a company. But feels better to dream than to shrug it off and wait for incremental change. 

The thing that sets visionary companies apart is that they see what isn't wanted or popular and create the market for it.  See: Apple, Amazon, and Tesla. 

Flowrestling did this a decade ago, before there was a market for wrestling.  And then rather than continue to focus on and build wrestling, they switched to applying the model that built flowrestling to as many niche verticals as possible: flomarching, floBJJ, floracing, etc. How can they get as many subscribers as fast as possible, regardless of the sustainability of the enterprise? The result, IMO, is a noticeable drop in the quality of wrestling content offered outside of their considerable number of HS events.  

Edited by Billyhoyle

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On 10/10/2021 at 6:34 PM, Billyhoyle said:

The result, IMO, is a noticeable drop in the quality of wrestling content offered outside of their considerable number of HS events.  

swear i'm not trying to start a fight, genuinely curious if you have any examples in mind when you say there is a "drop in quality of wrestling content" other than high school events. 

no longer being able to simulcast all the BTN+ content across all sports was definitely a loss. ESPN+ has also scooped some D1 teams that we were previously allowed to make individual deals with. but as far as international content though, it's been nothing but a massive increase in content from the UWW contract alone (although there's been other stuff too!)

also interesting to contrast comments like this with other criticisms that FloWrestling is a monopoly. hard to square that one imo.

the level of resources FloSports has committed to wrestling has definitely not diminished over the years, it's only gone up, from paying events holders and organizations, to hosting our own events and paying athletes directly, to paying other producers of content, weather it's full-time employees or freelances writers, rankers, phototags, etc. no money is being diverted from wrestling and being spent elsewhere. hence my curiosity about where people see FloWrestling currently lacking. seeking feedback to see where we can improve!

Thanks for your time and input!

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On 10/12/2021 at 10:51 AM, Jaroslav Hasek said:

no longer being able to simulcast all the BTN+ content across all sports was definitely a loss. ESPN+ has also scooped some D1 teams that we were previously allowed to make individual deals with. but as far as international content though, it's been nothing but a massive increase in content from the UWW contract alone (although there's been other stuff too!)

The international content alone is worth the subscription and then some. Kudos on the UWW contract. I watch literally 10x more Flo than any other video outlet, TV, etc. because of your international coverage.

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59 minutes ago, Mphillips said:

Who else is getting better? Or even keeping up? Not, 'jerking chains.'

Interesting question.

Flow,  having bought Track, is now the defacto monopoly. They've purchased the broadcasting rights for the US market from the UWW.

Who else is there?

 

The disparity between the men's freestyle and women's freestyle coverage is pretty stark.

Edited by Mike Parrish
...

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8 hours ago, Mike Parrish said:

The disparity between the men's freestyle and women's freestyle coverage is pretty stark.

Go watch ESPN or any sports network and come back and tell me whether mens or women's sports get more attention. People just dont typically watch womens sports as much. With that in mind and with how new womens wrestling is, I would say flo is doing pretty damn good.

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10 hours ago, Mike Parrish said:

Interesting question.

Flow,  having bought Track, is now the defacto monopoly. They've purchased the broadcasting rights for the US market from the UWW.

Who else is there?

 

The disparity between the men's freestyle and women's freestyle coverage is pretty stark.

What was TRACK doing to promote women's wrestling before the, 'defacto monopoly' occurred?

I agree on the disparity to a point, but who else is doing anything?

Could FLO have jumped on board women's wrestling a bit sooner? Sure. But don't they get the chance now to improve the coverage?

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3 hours ago, Drake_Mallard said:

Go watch ESPN or any sports network and come back and tell me whether mens or women's sports get more attention. People just dont typically watch womens sports as much. With that in mind and with how new womens wrestling is, I would say flo is doing pretty damn good.

They are doing a great job with women's wrestling. I used to watch none and now I watch every international event.

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On 10/12/2021 at 7:51 AM, Jaroslav Hasek said:

swear i'm not trying to start a fight, genuinely curious if you have any examples in mind when you say there is a "drop in quality of wrestling content" other than high school events. 

no longer being able to simulcast all the BTN+ content across all sports was definitely a loss. ESPN+ has also scooped some D1 teams that we were previously allowed to make individual deals with. but as far as international content though, it's been nothing but a massive increase in content from the UWW contract alone (although there's been other stuff too!)

also interesting to contrast comments like this with other criticisms that FloWrestling is a monopoly. hard to square that one imo.

the level of resources FloSports has committed to wrestling has definitely not diminished over the years, it's only gone up, from paying events holders and organizations, to hosting our own events and paying athletes directly, to paying other producers of content, weather it's full-time employees or freelances writers, rankers, phototags, etc. no money is being diverted from wrestling and being spent elsewhere. hence my curiosity about where people see FloWrestling currently lacking. seeking feedback to see where we can improve!

Thanks for your time and input!

For me, I only watch college and international wrestling. So it really comes down to losing the weekly dual matches of Okstate/big ten. I saw a ton of value in having something to watch every week from those events, in addition to having WTT and US Open.

currently, there are maybe 1 or 2 duals that look worth watching to me, in addition to US open, WTT, and worlds. So a monthly subscription would be something I would do, since the freestyle events really only encompass a couple months. 
 

I think part of it is that BTN airs more duals than they used to. So ESPN and BTN covers a ton of college wrestling (not really flo’s fault). 

Edited by Billyhoyle

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On 10/12/2021 at 10:51 AM, Jaroslav Hasek said:

swear i'm not trying to start a fight, genuinely curious if you have any examples in mind when you say there is a "drop in quality of wrestling content" other than high school events. 

no longer being able to simulcast all the BTN+ content across all sports was definitely a loss. ESPN+ has also scooped some D1 teams that we were previously allowed to make individual deals with. but as far as international content though, it's been nothing but a massive increase in content from the UWW contract alone (although there's been other stuff too!)

also interesting to contrast comments like this with other criticisms that FloWrestling is a monopoly. hard to square that one imo.

the level of resources FloSports has committed to wrestling has definitely not diminished over the years, it's only gone up, from paying events holders and organizations, to hosting our own events and paying athletes directly, to paying other producers of content, weather it's full-time employees or freelances writers, rankers, phototags, etc. no money is being diverted from wrestling and being spent elsewhere. hence my curiosity about where people see FloWrestling currently lacking. seeking feedback to see where we can improve!

Thanks for your time and input!

 

Not so much quality of content, I think that is a matter of opinion to a degree - but I'll provide I guess an observation on the transformation of the site from my specific perspective. I am sure there have been many similar anecdotes. 

I was on Flo since roughly 07 or 08. It was super bare at the time compared to now, but it still felt like so much to me. Id honestly credit Flo with helping to restore my love of the sport, as I was super burnt out at the time. I think it helped me become a fan of the sport - not just a wrestler, if that makes sense. I also remember when I found out there were other sites, such as FloSwimming, I thought that was extremely cool. A buddy of mine was a state champ swimmer, and I watched an interview with him on there, it was great.

Anyway, I remember just before I first signed up for pro years later, there was still a solid amount of content I had access to that was free - I had the money though, and the premium content at the time (I believe most if not all live events, the films, and the technique were the main selling points of premium/pro) were definitely worth it - still are imo. I simply cannot afford it on my budget to pay the fee all at once. Things though like video interviews, college visit series, some match clips (I think NCAA clips required a sub? Dont know), and even a solid amount of full matches and a few tournaments were all still free at the time, and were great to be able to watch. Just as well, seemed a solid amount of articles were still free as well. Especially in the off season, when I am was not so much "in" the sport - even having a little something to read/watch was solid. So, when it came to pass that I had to cut it from the budget, it was a tough choice - but considering (at least I believed at the time) I'd still have access to some good articles, a decent amount of content on Flo- I could wait out the time until I could swing paying for it. This is no longer the case.

I was honestly shocked by how little you all offer for free. It really stinks, being such a big fan of the sport - and your platform being clearly the primary provider of content currently. I am not looking for justification/reasoning/or validation - you cannot/should not offer your entire site for free. Just doesnt make sense, it is fair enough. Just saying, it was a shock lol. Seems the majority of articles, and every maybe 8 out of 10 videos posted require pro. I now visit the site maybe 1x a week only to see what events are happening, simply because I feel there is nothing for me there now as someone without a premium account. I could go on about what I think should be free/shouldnt, site layout...etc, but that really isnt my point. Just providing a view I guess

You all are not in the business of handouts, and that is not what I am suggesting you should be - just giving a point of view on how the site has changed over time. 

Thanks anyone for reading the wall above if you did, if not - whatever. No harm no foul. 

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On 10/7/2021 at 10:27 PM, Mike Parrish said:

Flow has been ignoring women's wrestling for a decade at least.

WCWAs in 2019, they didn't even record most of the matches.

I wrote them an email and got the response that was basically, "Too bad, so sad. Piss off."

Imagine the storm if they'd just failed to record most of the 2019 NCAA DI tournament?

Check the brackets yourself, only the semi finals and finals were recorded.

https://arena.flowrestling.org/event/3f93bf76-ce6c-6562-9d4f-9cb0ce46630f

 

The fact that there would be a storm for one and isn't a storm for the other is why they do it.   

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