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spladle08

American System/Competitive Age

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Clearly if we did freestyle full time we would have better freestylers but...
Do you think our youth (Teens) would be able to seriously compete, like Russia's men or Japan's women. 
Or is that a reflection of having the freedom to be fully dedicated to the sport for forever. (Clearly I assume Russian men and Japanese women have limited obligations outside of wrestling) 
That's a better question.
In other countries do you become, essentially a (developing) "pro wrestler" a lot younger....
or
are the kids developing into alternate careers just as we are here? 
I feel dumb for asking but I genuinely don't know the answer as far as school/social demands vs athletic dreams. 

Edited by spladle08

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Doubt there are many opportunities for former wrestlers in Russia.  I will speculate wrestling chews up and spits out the indigestible portion of all but a couple dozen wrestlers per year in Russia.  I think Japanese wrestlers fare better, based on the sample set of one Japanese former wrestler I had an extended conversation with.

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3 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

Doubt there are many opportunities for former wrestlers in Russia.  I will speculate wrestling chews up and spits out the indigestible portion of all but a couple dozen wrestlers per year in Russia.  I think Japanese wrestlers fare better, based on the sample set of one Japanese former wrestler I had an extended conversation with.

Care to elaborate on that conversation?

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12 minutes ago, Grecojones said:

Care to elaborate on that conversation?

He wrestled while he attended college.. He was an exercise science professor when I talked to him at the Olympic trials in Indy.  He lost to Ed Banach in the finals of the 84 Olympics and said Banach was a good wrestler, but substituted strength for technique.  He loved Iranian wrestlers because  "Their spirit for wrestling is the greatest in the world."  Real nice guy.  Stayed in the same trucker motel we did and  split a shuttle to and from the venue many times.

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2 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

The lack of FS commitment and success for two of the top three programs is unnerving.  Leads me to believe college Freestyle would fall on its face.

Which are the two top programs you have in mind? 

Also: If freestyle was the college style, don't you think every program would try their best to be good at it?

 

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33 minutes ago, NJDan said:

Which are the two top programs you have in mind? 

Also: If freestyle was the college style, don't you think every program would try their best to be good at it?

 

It is about current support, which is a reflection of enthusiasm.  The two who should be having more success are Iowa and Okie State.  Maybe I shouldn't be harsh on Okie State, as they had obvious success.  Not much from post grads though.

Edited by Plasmodium

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14 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

He wrestled while he attended college.. He was an exercise science professor when I talked to him at the Olympic trials in Indy.  He lost to Ed Banach in the finals of the 84 Olympics and said Banach was a good wrestler, but substituted strength for technique.  He loved Iranian wrestlers because  "Their spirit for wrestling is the greatest in the world."  Real nice guy.  Stayed in the same trucker motel we did and  split a shuttle to and from the venue many times.

Thanks for sharing. 

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13 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

The lack of FS commitment and success for two of the top three programs is unnerving.  Leads me to believe college Freestyle would fall on its face.

That’s why it would have to be an executive rule change. Coaches will adapt to the rules implemented no matter how much they whine

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16 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

The million dollar question is whether fans and donors will support it.

I think most freestyle proponents operate under the assumption that the vast majority of fans and boosters follow because of association with their respective schools.  

You make a good point though, a major change in style certainly doesn't come without risks.

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He wrestled while he attended college.. He was an exercise science professor when I talked to him at the Olympic trials in Indy.  He lost to Ed Banach in the finals of the 84 Olympics and said Banach was a good wrestler, but substituted strength for technique.  He loved Iranian wrestlers because  "Their spirit for wrestling is the greatest in the world."  Real nice guy.  Stayed in the same trucker motel we did and  split a shuttle to and from the venue many times.
Thanks for chiming in. Appreciate the info. I don't think we ever switch to freestyle obviously but I really wasn't sure if the other countries kind of kept with the "college" structure during those developmental years.
Russia/Japan reminded me I'm all about stereotypes.
Clearly we think of any Asians and assume schooling and discipline are too of the heap.
Russians are clearly dangerous tough guys.

So it's easy for me to imagine Japan having similar if not tougher school/career requirements.
While Russia is just a bunch of cavemen who live to grapple.

I'm going to have to take some time tomorrow and learn a little more about the sport/school interaction in a all the top countries .


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Though it might sound good, there's no way we're changing our college wrestling from folk to free or our boys youth/cadet/jr/hs to freestyle.  Old dudes would have heart attacks or complain so much that they'd die of high blood pressure.  Too much tradition behind folkstyle here and people would complain and say freestyle is boring compared to folkstsyle, the rules are confusing, a PA state title means more than a senior World or Olympic title, if it were folk instead of freestyle around the world, Zain would be a 1000 time senior world champ, etc....

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Youth wrestling used to be freestyle through the early 90s. I wrestled Freestyle only from 6 years old until I started middle school and then only wrestles folkstyle in school. When I graduated college in '93 and started coaching, little guys were wrestling folkstyle first and maybe freestyle. 

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I'm not sure I follow this. I love freestyle and would welcome a change, but we are already putting out kids that are highly competitive with the rest of the world at the cadet/junior level. College wrestling is probably delaying our guys a few years at the senior level, with a couple of exceptions, but I'm not sure a change puts us over Russia. We would need wrestling to be a much more popular sport in the US for that to happen.

(I'm not sure what Japan has in the water their women drink, because the young women they are churning out are scary good.)

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

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On 10/21/2021 at 10:32 PM, CA_Wrestler said:

Though it might sound good, there's no way we're changing our college wrestling from folk to free or our boys youth/cadet/jr/hs to freestyle.  Old dudes would have heart attacks or complain so much that they'd die of high blood pressure.  Too much tradition behind folkstyle here and people would complain and say freestyle is boring compared to folkstsyle, the rules are confusing, a PA state title means more than a senior World or Olympic title, if it were folk instead of freestyle around the world, Zain would be a 1000 time senior world champ, etc....

In fairness the last statement is probably true. I refuse to believe there is anyone he couldn’t ground and pound from the referee position.

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*For the record I really wasn't suggesting we change it to freestyle (which would clearly work)

 

I was really just wondering how much everything we do in America factors in abroad.

From highschool structure to college to blah blah blah.

 

I don't think our system is flawed in creating well rounded people. But I wondered if it was just full blown wrestling academies from a young age (how about 10years old?) In other countries......

Structured where wrestling is the majority focus and academics, Marvel movies, and lake days... Were a very small portion.

 

We discussed Russia and Japan earlier but I think we all kind of think of Russians as brutes and Japanese people as intelligent so it's easy to imagine them taking 2 different paths, but man those girls gotta be living some kind of "wrestling academy" life or their training is just that much better than ours .

 

The question was just basically.

Do they aim to create strong world level wrestling athletes at a younger age. Or do they go through their life steps just like we do here and hope some guys/girls stick with it as adults.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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College wrestling is what it is not because of the style of wrestling competed, but the school attachment and involvement under the NCAA. If NCAA wrestling were freestyle that would all remain, the only difference is that would be a feeder to more American medals instead of a hindering. But Penn Stare would still be Penn State and Iowa would still be Iowa and the following and ESPN would still be there. 
 

Just one guy’s opinion…

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