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freefolkfan

Khabib vs. Sadulaev

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1 hour ago, freefolkfan said:

Uwwdoc, I am not sure its local politics -- from all the interviews I've heard of Sads about MMA, he doesn't like it that MMA is recognized above freestyle wrestling as he somehow believes wrestling is the purest form of combat. He also, I think, doesn't like when they ask him if MMA fighter X is a great wrestler. And at training camp videos I've never seen him wrestle MMA guys, while the others do. 

btw, at 0:15 with Zabit, he tries to take Sads back, and Sads turn so fast towards him, its crazy. Also the wrestler Khabib's father referred to was Ahmed Gadzhimagomedov, the guy that beat Dake an lost to Dake.

I understand Sad frustration, a lot of the Dagestani MMA guys just smash through a lower level of competition and do very well and become champions, get paid very well, more fame etc. Guys like Khabib and more, Islam Mackhachev will probably be champ soon too. But Sad is looking at them all getting praised for their wrestling knowing he could throw them all around easily. Also in wrestling the Russians need to go against tough Americans and Iranians, but usually from a wrestling point of view they have much easier match ups in MMA. Just at the weekend in the last UFC Islam faced a guy from New Zealand who is a great fighter, but in terms of wrestling? Easy peasy for Islam and then he gets praised massively for taking him down. So I can see how Sad might feel.

But at the end of the day it is 2 different sports. But yeah reading between the lines they aren't close.

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7 hours ago, freefolkfan said:

btw, Khabib's father (RIP) said  Khabib regularly trains with Russian World Champion wrestlers and that if the match lasts 20 minutes he would beat any wrestler in the world, in wrestling, because Khabib would tire them out: he would lose the first 3-4 minutes and then equal the pace and then win towards the end. 

I respect the father, but that is prideful talk with no basis in reality.  If Khabib wrestled Sadulaev under freestyle rules for 20 minutes, the score would be 500 to 10, or something dumb like that.  Sadulaev is the GOAT, and he wouldn't get tired wrestling for 20 minutes against a smaller guy than him.

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I think one of the things I read a while ago was that because Khabib wrestled a lot with Cormier and also in Dagestan, he somehow knows both styles, while Sadulaev is more limited, that is, Khabib may surprise him with a technique he hasn't seen if they wrestle in a cage: may be a judo trip next to the fence or some top control. I suspect btw Sads may be tough to submit if he trains a bit of BJJ/grappling, he seems very compact. 

Anyway, I think we will see this match relatively soon.

Edited by freefolkfan

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I think one of the things I read a while ago was that because Khabib wrestled a lot with Cormier and also in Dagestan, he somehow knows both styles, while Sadulaev is more limited, that is, Khabib may surprise him with a technique he hasn't seen if they wrestle in a cage: may be a judo trip next to the fence or some top control. I suspect btw Sads may be tough to submit if he trains a bit of BJJ/grappling, he seems very compact. 
Anyway, I think we will see this match relatively soon.

The problem with this idea is that you think Khabib has the power to get Sadulaev into a position to trip him; he doesn’t.

He’s also not going to be on top of Sadulaev.


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3 hours ago, freefolkfan said:

Not sure about MMA, Khabib has some decent boxing and Sadulaev probably has 0 clue how to box. About grappling, Khabib will try to triangle him / arm-bar Sads, which may work as Sad probably has very little if 0 submission grappling experience.

I think Khabib is a way better striker.  If these 2 are competing in MMA, the question is whether Khabib can keep the fight standing and/or KO Sadulaev.  If not, Sadulaev beats him in MMA.

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On 11/5/2021 at 7:11 PM, freefolkfan said:

Not sure about MMA, Khabib has some decent boxing and Sadulaev probably has 0 clue how to box. About grappling, Khabib will try to triangle him / arm-bar Sads, which may work as Sad probably has very little if 0 submission grappling experience.

Wrestlers are suckers for triangles.  

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In wrestling Sad would obviously win, the discussion I saw was about what happens if they wrestle in the cage (like Jones/Henderson at some event)? Could Khabib push Sadulaev to the cage and trip him there? Then how long the match goes? Khabib's father said after 15-20 min or so, Khabib can outwrestle any world champion as the champ [Sadulaev in this case] will get tired. So more the discussion was around if the match is longer (say 15-20 min) in the cage. Of course, a separate discussion is if they grapple, could Khabib submit him, etc.

I believe they will have a friendly session at some point in the next 2-3 years when Sadulaev retires [may be after Paris 2024]. I think some MMA fans think Khabib is so good in wrestling in the cage, that he will dominate this match as well, which likely won't happen.

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ugh...

sadulaeuv did not grow up "wrestling" in america...

he knows how to circle...

not even in the reign of queen dick would khabib be able to "push" sad against the cage...

he has no tools to do that in wrestling...

none...

i don't care if they are in there for 6 minutes or 3 weeks...

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Khabib would not do it. He retired on top undefeated, completely dominating in MMA. He makes good money, has a great untouchable image. Imagine him getting ragdolled by Sadulaev for however long it would be and how bad it will look for him. A lot of mma casuals and fans would be "shocked" to see Khabib get handled like that. It would be an awful unnecessary dent to his untouchable image.

Sadulaev weighs 96kg and doesn't really cut when he wrestles. Khabib is 90kg when not really fit. And around 84-86kg fit. So the weight disadvantage would not help Khabib either. He is more similar in weight to Yazdani. But the result would be the same as Sadulaev imo.

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MMA fans believe Khabib is special wrestling in the cage. This gets perpetrated by few points over the years:

  • He is competitive in wrestling with 2x Olympian Daniel Cormier at AKA [various interviews].
  • He outwrestled some mid-level NCAA wrestlers in MMA.
  • He is from Dagestan, known to have great wrestling. 
  • His father saying he wrestles 10's of hours a year with Russian National Champ  Gadzhimagomedov.
  • An interview by Josh Thompson saying he outwrestles NCAA D-1 champions like Ed Ruth and others [not clear in MMA or pure wrestling in the cage].
  • Every MMA fighter he fought saying how strong he is and how balanced he is.

So based on the above, 99% of MMA fans, who know nothing about Sadulaev except he is yet another great wrestler from Russia, somehow believe Khabib has a chance in the cage. The plan I saw was that Khabib would shoot on Sad and Sad would sprawl and then Khabib would push him to the cage from the fake attack, like he usually does to everyone else. Then Sad would be trapped with his back against the cage in a position he is not familiar with in freestyle wrestling, and Khabib would trip him from there. Somehow the belief is that Khabib is not weaker physically than Sadulaev given he is equal with Cormier who is about the same weight class and now heavier.

 

 

Edited by freefolkfan

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On 11/6/2021 at 7:16 PM, AHamilton said:

Wrestlers are suckers for triangles.  

Once you teach yourself to keep your head way up in guard/half guard, and not to put your hands on the mat (on either side of your opponent), you're much less susceptible to triangles, but you're absolutely right; wrestlers are more susceptible initially than other BJJ newbs.

There are a few positions that wrestlers are naturally too comfortable in, and that's probably the most dangerous.

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On 11/13/2021 at 6:28 PM, freefolkfan said:

MMA fans believe Khabib is special wrestling in the cage. This gets perpetrated by few points over the years:

  • He is competitive in wrestling with 2x Olympian Daniel Cormier at AKA [various interviews].
  • He outwrestled some mid-level NCAA wrestlers in MMA.
  • He is from Dagestan, known to have great wrestling. 
  • His father saying he wrestles 10's of hours a year with Russian National Champ  Gadzhimagomedov.
  • An interview by Josh Thompson saying he outwrestles NCAA D-1 champions like Ed Ruth and others [not clear in MMA or pure wrestling in the cage].
  • Every MMA fighter he fought saying how strong he is and how balanced he is.

So based on the above, 99% of MMA fans, who know nothing about Sadulaev except he is yet another great wrestler from Russia, somehow believe Khabib has a chance in the cage. The plan I saw was that Khabib would shoot on Sad and Sad would sprawl and then Khabib would push him to the cage from the fake attack, like he usually does to everyone else. Then Sad would be trapped with his back against the cage in a position he is not familiar with in freestyle wrestling, and Khabib would trip him from there. Somehow the belief is that Khabib is not weaker physically than Sadulaev given he is equal with Cormier who is about the same weight class and now heavier.

 

 

I have a hard time believing Cormier's giving anywhere near 100% percent during live goes with Khabib, and I suspect there's a contextual explanation underlying Josh Thompson's supposed victories over D1 NCAA champs like Ed Ruth.

AKA practices are known to be intense, and supposedly feature a lot of live wrestling, but Cormier's neither a hothead nor an idiot, and wouldn't risk injuring Khabib in practice.  And live wrestling a substantially smaller Khabib at anywhere near 100% would almost surely injure the latter eventually.

As an aside, I've long thought Gregor Gillespie would probably give Khabib his toughest fight at LW, but it looks like that ship has sailed.

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17 hours ago, whaletail said:

I have a hard time believing Cormier's giving anywhere near 100% percent during live goes with Khabib, and I suspect there's a contextual explanation underlying Josh Thompson's supposed victories over D1 NCAA champs like Ed Ruth.

It's because they are not wrestling as we know it.  Even though they might start on their feet, they are doing no-gi grappling which changes everything.  In no-gi grappling, it's possible for someone like Thompson to get the better of Ruth because of the threat of a guillotine choke, kimura, or armbar.   

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I think Thompson meant not that he beat Ed Ruth, but that Khabib did it. 

I guess the topic will get hotter now with Chimaev making waves and recently having a wrestling match in Sweden which he won, so now people think he is the best MMA wrestler -- Chimaev said he beat some wrestler who went to Olympics in wrestling and he is a Swedish national champ now, so people may start speculating whether he can also beat active wrestlers. Interestingly, Chimaev was 3rd in Russian Junior Nationals which is quite impressive, unlike Khabib who has never competed in wrestling.

Poor Sadulaev, somehow there are many fantasy wrestling match-ups with him especially with the Russian MMA wrestlers where he loses every time :)

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On 11/30/2021 at 8:13 AM, freefolkfan said:

Poor Sadulaev, somehow there are many fantasy wrestling match-ups with him especially with the Russian MMA wrestlers where he loses every time :)

This from the guy who was the original poster of this ridiculous idea. "Some MMA folks think...". Dude, some MMA folks don't have a clue about wrestling, and they don't know Sadulaev. Anyone who thinks Khabib would have a chance of shooting of Sadulaev and then pushing him up against the cage doesn't really understand much about these two men, their relative sizes and their abilities on their feet. Cormier most likely never went 100% against Khabib. Why would he? He's much bigger, and his career was tied up with the success of Khabib. He did make comments about Khabib's unusual strength for a lightweight, but let's keep that in mind "for a lightweight". Does anyone believe that Khabib's strength compares with the strength of Sadulaev? Let's put this topic to sleep. Khabib can wake it up again, if he's crazy. 

 

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pa,

I am mostly reflecting what I read. And btw yes one can ignore this match-up but these type of match-ups are definitely on the rise, for instance just yesterday Chimaev challenged DC to a wrestling match and Jones posted his practice with J'Den Cox. There we other such matches up like Gordon Ryan vs. Pat Downey and more recently, so I think these cross-matchups will happen more and more often.

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