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tommygun

National Duals: Dead?

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im all in favor of NCAA wrestling doing more to expand the fan base, cross over to more college fans, and ultimately grow the sport. it seems to me that an obvious way to do that is to get more more dual meets out on national broadcast. i would also think crowning a team national champion based on the result of a dual meet tournament would also clearly help.

 

i understand that this would change how things are currently set up, but i think any challenges these changes may present are easily overcome. the national tournament will never stop being important and wrestling will always be an individual sport, so a greater emphasis on dual meets could only be a net positive for the sport as a whole. some coaches and teams may need to adjust their long term goals and strategies, but i fail to see how that trumps potential growth of the sport.

 

the college fan base is large and rabid, yet wrestling captures only a tiny fraction of it. something will have to change if that market is to be captured. the alternative is more of the same, which includes more terminated programs and a dwindling fan base. seems like an easy choice to me.

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pinnum is on suicide watch

 

Thanks for the concern.

 

Unfortunate it has come to this. Will be interested to see what teams schedule the toughest duals now and which teams do not.

 

In the long run, the regrouping and discussion between coaches might be for the best thing to rebuild a good product. I am not going to get into a discussion on this thread because it sounds like some people are confusing too many things and aren't well informed.

 

But I will ask: what is the NWCA's new event? Will F&M still hold their dual festival that weekend?

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A few things I would like to point out. It is my opinion that most championship teams are champions because of the number of star athletes that are on their team so when you see it as a positive that wrestling would benefit from lesser star laden teams winning I see it as a nice story on occasion but bad for the sport long term. I doubt that media outlets would be thrilled to broadcast Central Michigan vs Edinboro anymore than having small market teams in the world series, NBA finals etc. Also, I seriously doubt fans are going to travel as we do for the current nationals if we may only get to see our team wrestle once!

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This feels vindictive by teams that are pissed about what nearly happened last year. And yes I include the coach of my favorite program in that. I hate this on all levels, and it's a little sad to see the barely suppressed glee by some of you.

 

+1

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This feels vindictive by teams that are pissed about what nearly happened last year. And yes I include the coach of my favorite program in that. I hate this on all levels, and it's a little sad to see the barely suppressed glee by some of you.

I'm not happy that National Duals is canceled, but I am happy that the team championship stayed where it belonged.

 

As I said many months ago the issue was dividing fans so it's not surprising at all that some are happy to see this development. It became a battle at times and one side has at least for now prevailed. I wish they would have found a way that left NCAA in March alone and we could have all got behind it. For me this is a better option than what their proposal showed me.

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pinnum is on suicide watch

 

Thanks for the concern.

 

Unfortunate it has come to this. Will be interested to see what teams schedule the toughest duals now and which teams do not.

 

In the long run, the regrouping and discussion between coaches might be for the best thing to rebuild a good product. I am not going to get into a discussion on this thread because it sounds like some people are confusing too many things and aren't well informed

 

But I will ask: what is the NWCA's new event? Will F&M still hold their dual festival that weekend?

 

the board might melt down as i wrote this on the first page:

 

in the long run i think this will be a good thing. it has been a subpar event for years. this could be the catalyst to go to the drawing board and come up with a quality event. you can't make teams compete in a tournament, you have to make the tournament prestigious enough that teams wouldn't think of missing it.

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I am not going to get into a discussion on this thread because it sounds like some people are confusing too many things and aren't well informed.

 

Well why don't you inform everyone then?

 

Hint: 3 teams perennially winning it all is not fun, nor exciting.

 

The sport is dying and the maniacs behind the wheel are determined to ride it into the ground with lack of vision.

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Maybe the sport is dying because very few people out of those who have wrestled understand the appeal of the sport? I don't think any rule changes or format proposals could change that on any noticeable level, but rule changes can definitely alienate the base that already watches the sport.

 

In today's ever changing world it doesn't surprise me that the sport with a small but VERY intense/in your face fan base is a target for elimination.

 

Although I am very happy the team dual championships didn't replace the Individual tournament it really sucks that it was cancelled outright. This was a cool idea that I think should have been given enough time to mature and carve out its own niche.

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Once again MR. Clownface you are so behind just sit and wait for DR. Gonzo to come visit if he can find that **** roach infested apartment you live in...I would also add MR. Pinnum to the list you folks could have a good time...When you folks get together and have a cookout wrestling will be saved!!!

 

I am not going to get into a discussion on this thread because it sounds like some people are confusing too many things and aren't well informed.

 

Well why don't you inform everyone then?

 

Hint: 3 teams perennially winning it all is not fun, nor exciting.

 

The sport is dying and the maniacs behind the wheel are determined to ride it into the ground with lack of vision.

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Damn it, I like dual tournaments, and I'm sorry to see National Duals go. But if most of the top teams won't participate, then there can be no National Duals. What we could do is to promote the other dual tournaments better. I wish the B1G were more supportive of dual tournament schedules.

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I have a crazy idea, since the dual team aspect is out of the picture.

 

Since a team has 9.9 scholarships, and you really only need about 5 wrestlers to win the National Championship, just forego the other points, use the 9.9 schollies to get the 10 best studs in the nation, focused on just 5 weights. To hell with the other weights, and spend more time focusing on the 5.

 

With the right coaching, and the draw of a good campus, educational program, etc. any second tier team could pull this off, or a lower tier team could rocket into contention.

 

Let's see who goes for this first.

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How did this thread get 3 pages deep without it somehow being hijacked into a Dake/Taylor debate?! We all know DT would have beat him in a national dual tourney.

 

All kidding aside, I guess the event in its current format does not have the proper support to make it successful. If it did, it would not be getting sh*t-canned.

 

But I gotta believe there is a way to make it work (profitably). How about simplifying it? Make it a 1 day, 4 team event (including a 3rd/4th place meet). Let the #1 seed have first option to host it. If they decline, offer it to the #2 seed, etc.. Hold it the the weekend before the conference tourney's. Have the same committee that handles seeding at NCAAs, seed the 4 teams. Select the teams 3 weeks before the event.

 

Stop calling it National Duals and arguing if it should determine the NCAA champion. Come up with a good name for it. Have some top notch US Freestyle matches in between meets (invite guys who are graduates from the participating schools). That's it!! That's how we can get Dake/Taylor back in play!!

 

I don't know if that works as described, but there's gotta be a way.

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It'll never work. Some coaches get it in their brain it is in their best interest to avoid it.

 

some coaches allow their ego to get in the way.

 

yeah, like force feeding everyone a "national duals" setup which gets outdrawn by PSU traveling to Utah Valley or Rutgers

 

large numbers of people are not going to pay to travel to see their team wrestle two or three matches then turn around a couple weeks later and travel to the conference and national tournaments where they can watch much more wrestling...doesn't matter what trophy is handed out there...its economics...

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Maybe the sport is dying because very few people out of those who have wrestled understand the appeal of the sport? I don't think any rule changes or format proposals could change that on any noticeable level, but rule changes can definitely alienate the base that already watches the sport.

 

In today's ever changing world it doesn't surprise me that the sport with a small but VERY intense/in your face fan base is a target for elimination.

 

Although I am very happy the team dual championships didn't replace the Individual tournament it really sucks that it was cancelled outright. This was a cool idea that I think should have been given enough time to mature and carve out its own niche.

 

So, you believe the sport is dying as currently constituted, and you don't think we should change, because it might die faster. Seems wise.

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I am not going to get into a discussion on this thread because it sounds like some people are confusing too many things and aren't well informed.

 

Well why don't you inform everyone then?

 

Hint: 3 teams perennially winning it all is not fun, nor exciting.

 

The sport is dying and the maniacs behind the wheel are determined to ride it into the ground with lack of vision.

 

 

I want to know how the sport is dying??? At the youth level, and the high school levels the sport continues to grow. At the college level, NAIA, Division II and III continue to grow, and even the NJCAA has had some growth.

 

Division I is not in crisis, but they need to stop the bleeding. It would be nice to add some teams, but Moyer can't seem to do that as he has with the other divisions....

 

It seems wrestling is doing OK, certainly not dying, but could be doing better in some aspects.

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theres a danger of alienating the "hardcore" fans because of a greater emphasis on duals? what are they going to do, stop following NCAA wrestling?

 

reminds me of the MLB crowd that get worked up about the DH or interleague play or playoffs changes. everyone instantly forgets about it and they go right back to enjoying the sport.

 

a focus on duals will help enhance the team aspect which will hopefully bring in more casual college fans, who dont study brackets but do like to follow any sports team their school participates in. if the change happens to be an abysmal failure, you can always change back. no one is going to eliminate the individual tournament and stop crowning individual champions. no one is changing any thing about the sport itself.

 

and then who knows, maybe some fans become attached to some wrestlers on their college team that would have otherwise ignored them and they start following the athlete post college at international tournaments, mma or whatever.

 

the downsides tho are so minimal, the amount of resistance is baffling. maybe the there was a proposal to start competing on a trampoline or have judges start awarded style points based on who has the best haircut.

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But I gotta believe there is a way to make it work (profitably). How about simplifying it? Make it a 1 day, 4 team event (including a 3rd/4th place meet). Let the #1 seed have first option to host it. If they decline, offer it to the #2 seed, etc.. Hold it the the weekend before the conference tourney's. Have the same committee that handles seeding at NCAAs, seed the 4 teams. Select the teams 3 weeks before the event.

The problem with an event like you describe is that (just like the national tournament) it doesn't do anything to create excitement at the smaller, weaker schools.

 

It also doesn't allow for any underdog stories to develop and get people interested.

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You might not have noticed the Olympics dropping the sport, either.

 

Because the IOC is holding wrestling for ransom means the sport is dying? Wrestling isn't being kicked out of the Olympics due to the sport not being popular or that countries aren't participating.

 

71 countries represented at the Olympics, 177 countries with wrestling means the sport is dying??

 

You need to look into things before you make stupid statements about wrestling.

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Congratulations to Brands, Sanderson, and Smith for leading college wrestling to a rather large step backwards.

 

Sanderson is the ring leader and he is supposed to be some icon of the sport. The decisions he has made are based solely on what is good for him and his ego. He left Iowa State to boost his chance to "make it" as a coach. He refused to attend national duals because it could have put a blemish to his resume. This guy is not an ambassador of wrestling, he is out for himself, period.

 

Brands... Let me just say, Gable would have never pulled out of an event like this. Gable would have readied his troops and won the damn thing. No wonder Iowa has went backwards since Gable left. These guys preach toughness and intensity, but follow up by bailing because it is too grueling of a tournament. Jeez, bring gable back, please.

 

I don't know about Smith. He has been a great ambassador for wrestling. Maybe in his older age he just wants to win one more title before riding off. I don't know.

 

As you can tell, this pisses me off completely. This is bad for wrestling to just cancel the event. They could have worked at it, but that wouldn't fit their egos.

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