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flo’s excuse to stay relevant… “watch party”

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19 hours ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

this is 100% correct. espn is squatting on all sorts of great wrestling content and investing approximately zero resources into it. hopefully that changes, with either the unbundling of the conference contracts that allow schools to once again shop around their tier 3 rights, or with espn taking notice and putting some money and resources behind their wrestling programming. both would be good for the sport imo, regardless of if that entails more streaming rights for Flo or not. 

1.) ESPN invests in the NCAA tournament.

2.) Conference unbundling isn't happening. If anything, the Big12 was an outlier and the only way you get unbundling is if the Big12 implodes. That would be great for FloWrestling, but terrible for the current Big12 schools. You have 5 major conferences. ACC Network runs through ESPN until 2035. SEC just reupped exclusively with ESPN, so there goes Mizzou/Oklahoma wrestling. PAC-12 has their own network along with the Big Ten network. The only tier 3 rights even available were the Big12 and that's because Texas wanted to monetize through the Longhorn Network. Because that was a colossal failure for ESPN, I'd be shocked if we saw tier 3 rights return except for Notre Dame football and their contract with NBC. 

3.) What would be good for the sport is for the certain areas to add Division 1 programs in fast growing states like Georgia, Texas, and Tennessee. Without a college affiliation, USA wrestling is basically gymnastics or diving - a sport that matters only during the Olympics.  

 

 

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21 hours ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

every major wrestling events gets covered extensively. promotion is entirely different and if we don't stream it, there most likely won't be a budget for it. its how it works for pretty much every media company.

Do you plan to write articles about the Collegiate Wrestling Duals and let people know how to watch it? That is a major event imo.

The exciting thing about Flo losing the conference streaming rights is that it will force them to be creative and come up with new types of events to get people excited and could potentially grow the professional aspects of the sport for our senior level atheltes.

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3 hours ago, MizzouGrad said:

1.) ESPN invests in the NCAA tournament.

2.) Conference unbundling isn't happening. If anything, the Big12 was an outlier and the only way you get unbundling is if the Big12 implodes. That would be great for FloWrestling, but terrible for the current Big12 schools. You have 5 major conferences. ACC Network runs through ESPN until 2035. SEC just reupped exclusively with ESPN, so there goes Mizzou/Oklahoma wrestling. PAC-12 has their own network along with the Big Ten network. The only tier 3 rights even available were the Big12 and that's because Texas wanted to monetize through the Longhorn Network. Because that was a colossal failure for ESPN, I'd be shocked if we saw tier 3 rights return except for Notre Dame football and their contract with NBC. 

3.) What would be good for the sport is for the certain areas to add Division 1 programs in fast growing states like Georgia, Texas, and Tennessee. Without a college affiliation, USA wrestling is basically gymnastics or diving - a sport that matters only during the Olympics.  

1) this is true and i should've given them credit for that. was thinking of all the duals and tournaments that go on espn+ but fair point on the tourney. tho I'd also add that espn invests far less into the wrestling championships than they do other sports' championships that provide far more than 2 hours of programming a year. 

2) I see things differently. espn is paying for tier 1 and 2 rights (so football and basketball) and then requiring the schools to throw in their tier 3 for free. espn wants the programming for espn+ so they can gather info on it and keep it out of other companies' hands. the latest ACC deal even had a provision requiring every school to invest in their in house live production capacity for their non-revenue sports all on their own dime. espn can do this because of their big money hose they're directing at the schools.

the change in strategy for espn and BTN (and their partner, Fox) came about because of emergence of direct to consumer "over the top" apps like espn+. the Longhorn Network was a fiasco but it doesn't really factor into the tier 3 media rights deals imo. in the past, espn et al didn't care when schools made side deals for their non-rev sports. now they are shutting those down and forcing schools to leave money (and promotional partners) on the table. its the Walmart or Amazon approach to sport media. not hating on the strategy but it is what it is. 

Pac-12 does have their own network for their tier 3 sports but I have no idea what their long term strategy is for their media rights. I don't think anyone does to be honest. they failed to secure a national partner like the Big Ten did with Fox and I think wanted to rely on regional sports networks, but the business model for those cable channels is collapsing right now. will be interesting to see what that conference does going forward. 

3) this is all true but very tangental to our conversation, unless i'm missing something. without big time revenue or popularity, the only D1 wrestling programs that are being added are at schools that are using sports to help drive enrollment. hoping that changes in the future but I think we're a long ways out from a power 5 school adding a wrestling program. would be delighted to be wrong about that tho.

 

1 hour ago, juniorvarsity said:

Do you plan to write articles about the Collegiate Wrestling Duals and let people know how to watch it? That is a major event imo.

I don't know exactly what our content plan is going to be for that event yet but yes, it is a major event and I'm sure it will be covered by Flo.

1 hour ago, juniorvarsity said:

The exciting thing about Flo losing the conference streaming rights is that it will force them to be creative and come up with new types of events to get people excited and could potentially grow the professional aspects of the sport for our senior level atheltes.

hell yeah thats exactly right.

in other news related to the so-called "watch party" tonight: Cyon will also be there. 

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Flo has always had a hard on for ESPN and criticized their coverage of the NCAA tournament. It's almost as tiresome as people on here bitching about a spelling error on some random Flo article. The day the NCAA championships go to Flo is the day wrestling will die.

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38 minutes ago, BobDole said:

Flo has always had a hard on for ESPN and criticized their coverage of the NCAA tournament. It's almost as tiresome as people on here bitching about a spelling error on some random Flo article. The day the NCAA championships go to Flo is the day wrestling will die.

Those little blue pills will do that Bob! You of all people should know that!

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1 hour ago, BobDole said:

Flo has always had a hard on for ESPN and criticized their coverage of the NCAA tournament. It's almost as tiresome as people on here bitching about a spelling error on some random Flo article. The day the NCAA championships go to Flo is the day wrestling will die.

Bought a pink carnation and ESPN+
But I knew I was out of luck ...

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I don't have a problem with a watch party, but I think FLO should shut down Askren's constant shilling for Bitcoin and cryptocurrency on FRL.  It's 100 percent irrelevant to wrestling.   
 
He uses every platform he has for libertarian salesmanship and personal profit.  In his most recent (and hopefully final) MMA, boxing, and wrestling matches (vs. JB), he was utterly and pathetically destroyed, and yet he walks away from these extremely short and unprepared efforts smiling all the way to the bank.  
 
He's still trying to make a buck from everything he does at FRL.   On top of that, Bitcoin is terrible for the environment, and we are in the very midst of a climate emergency.  FLO  doesn't need to provide a platform for his advertisements and self-promotion.  And if they continue to do so, they should charge him and lower the rates for subscribers. 
 
 
 

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16 minutes ago, dmm53 said:
I don't have a problem with a watch party, but I think FLO should shut down Askren's constant shilling for Bitcoin and cryptocurrency on FRL.  It's 100 percent irrelevant to wrestling.   
 
He uses every platform he has for libertarian salesmanship and personal profit.  In his most recent (and hopefully final) MMA, boxing, and wrestling matches (vs. JB), he was utterly and pathetically destroyed, and yet he walks away from these extremely short and unprepared efforts smiling all the way to the bank.  
 
He's still trying to make a buck from everything he does at FRL.   On top of that, Bitcoin is terrible for the environment, and we are in the very midst of a climate emergency.  FLO  doesn't need to provide a platform for his advertisements and self-promotion.  And if they continue to do so, they should charge him and lower the rates for subscribers. 
 
 
 

I haven’t paid attention to Askren in a long time.  But I am aware of his cryptocurrency advocacy.  It is actually one of the things that convinced me to tune him out.

I think the best argument for Bitcoin is that it has many of the attributes of gold, but is easier to transfer and store.

But there is a serious downside.  Bitcoin isn’t an investment in capital. It’s value only goes up if other people buy it.  That problem is heightened by the fact that governments have the power to regulate it out of existence.  That problem is also heightened by the fact that there are already alternatives to Bitcoin, and more could be on the way.

All this is aside from Bitcoin’s environmental problem. 

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5 hours ago, Katie said:

I haven’t paid attention to Askren in a long time.  But I am aware of his cryptocurrency advocacy.  It is actually one of the things that convinced me to tune him out.

I think the best argument for Bitcoin is that it has many of the attributes of gold, but is easier to transfer and store.

But there is a serious downside.  Bitcoin isn’t an investment in capital. It’s value only goes up if other people buy it.  That problem is heightened by the fact that governments have the power to regulate it out of existence.  That problem is also heightened by the fact that there are already alternatives to Bitcoin, and more could be on the way.

All this is aside from Bitcoin’s environmental problem. 

Really, the only "legitimate" (and by that, I mean illegitimate) argument for Bitcoin and all crypto-currencies is that they provide a way to transfer money anonymously and simultaneously bypass taxes.

Perfect for criminals, and largely useless for anyone else.

The question is - how do middle class, blue-collar Americans buy into nonsense that is only going to make wealthy criminals wealthier and increase the tax burden on themselves? It's a mystery, one that parallels the events from late 2016. “There’s a sucker born every minute.”

 

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13 hours ago, BobDole said:

Flo has always had a hard on for ESPN and criticized their coverage of the NCAA tournament. It's almost as tiresome as people on here bitching about a spelling error on some random Flo article. The day the NCAA championships go to Flo is the day wrestling will die.

The post in this thread that I saw was about duals, and I agree that ESPN does a terrible job with the duals that they have the rights to and those would be done better by Flo. ESPN has the rights but basically sits on them and does nothing.  BTN does a great job with their network duals though, and the big ten dual schedule is IMO the best asset in streaming outside of the NCAA tournament. There is a marquee matchup every week in the conference.  Duals also are simply more watchable than tournaments like the Southern Scuffle because it's only a two hour commitment in prime time once or twice a week.

In terms of NCAAs, the reliability and production of ESPN is orders of magnitude beyond anything Flo has ever done. The article on Flo criticizing ESPN's coverage of NCAAs that one year and claiming they would do a better job was laughable. 

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I "watched" the watch party for a few matches last night as i was driving to denver (didn't actually watch but was listening through my bluetooth in the car don't worry).  Was really disappointed.  Maybe I was mistaken on what to expect, or maybe I turned it off too early, but there was barely any commentary on the actual matches going on.  More a conversation with Spey and Cyon and Kozak chiming in once in a while to give the play by play or a score update to get them back on track.  Wish the focus was more on the matches going on instead of just talking to one another.   Barely anything during Heinselmann and Latona and that was a decent upset....Meh, just my take.  Also, Cyon saying Latona rode the bench when he AA'ed last year wasn't the best...

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4 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

The post in this thread that I saw was about duals, and I agree that ESPN does a terrible job with the duals that they have the rights to and those would be done better by Flo. ESPN has the rights but basically sits on them and does nothing.  BTN does a great job with their network duals though, and the big ten dual schedule is IMO the best asset in streaming outside of the NCAA tournament. 

I always preferred that we could have all wrestling on one platform, Flo seemed to be the answer, worked well for a couple years.  But now that weve moved on, I don't know what is the complaint about ESPN.  I've seen no issues with their duals, its available on all platforms, tv, tablet, phone etc, easy to find & filter to college wrestling, available live or on-demand.  BTN tho is another issue, harder to figure out schedule, don't think can get + directly on tv but I don't subscribe but then their announcers are very bias, guessing you only care about the b10 its OK.  If interested in what's going on nationally, ESPN is much better.  

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7 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

 The article on Flo criticizing ESPN's coverage of NCAAs that one year and claiming they would do a better job was laughable. 

do you (or anyone else) happen to have a link to this article? i don't remember it. guessing it was from a while. I'd be interested in reading it!

thanks to everyone who tuned into the watch party. according to our metrics last night was a huge success so looks like we're going to keep them on the schedule. next one is in two weeks after Turkey Day!

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5 hours ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

do you (or anyone else) happen to have a link to this article? i don't remember it. guessing it was from a while. I'd be interested in reading it!

thanks to everyone who tuned into the watch party. according to our metrics last night was a huge success so looks like we're going to keep them on the schedule. next one is in two weeks after Turkey Day!

I didn't get to watch.  Was I mean and petty enough to get a mention yesterday or do I need to step up my game?

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I "watched" the watch party for a few matches last night as i was driving to denver (didn't actually watch but was listening through my bluetooth in the car don't worry).  Was really disappointed.  Maybe I was mistaken on what to expect, or maybe I turned it off too early, but there was barely any commentary on the actual matches going on.  More a conversation with Spey and Cyon and Kozak chiming in once in a while to give the play by play or a score update to get them back on track.  Wish the focus was more on the matches going on instead of just talking to one another.   Barely anything during Heinselmann and Latona and that was a decent upset....Meh, just my take.  Also, Cyon saying Latona rode the bench when he AA'ed last year wasn't the best...

You know those “copyright tags” during pro sports events? That’s what would prevent Flo (or Stalemates or me) from creating a stream (audio or video) giving straight commentary.

 

“Any other use of this telecast or any pictures, descriptions, or accounts of the game without the NFL's consent is prohibited.”

 

The ACC/ESPN could legally go after outlets (and Flo is large enough) for not paying for some type of streaming rights as I understand it. “Descriptions and accounts.”

 

They won’t go after the blog with 2 readers but I think you get what I’m saying.

 

Basically don’t try to make it out to be something it isn’t - this type of thing is mostly conversations while watching something together.

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15 minutes ago, Newbie123 said:

A simple google search will find the article.

i think i found it. i'm guessing folks are referring to this long lost gem from 2014? impressed anyone still remembers a hot take blog post from 7 year ago!

I had never seen it before. fun read but from a different era. fairly confident you won't see content like that on Flo ever again. 

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1 minute ago, JasonBryant said:


You know those “copyright tags” during pro sports events? That’s what would prevent Flo (or Stalemates or me) from creating a stream (audio or video) giving straight commentary.

“Any other use of this telecast or any pictures, descriptions, or accounts of the game without the NFL's consent is prohibited.”

The ACC/ESPN could legally go after outlets (and Flo is large enough) for not paying for some type of streaming rights as I understand it.

Basically don’t try to make it out to be something it isn’t - this type of thing is mostly conversations while watching something together.

Jason is totally correct here, but I can understand someone tuning in hoping for play by play. we could be more clear about communicating what the watch party is. I appreciate JBluegill's feedback!

also sometimes Flo does acquire audio media rights to events and we will do play-by-play. still no video on those tho. 

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Jason is totally correct here, but I can understand someone tuning in hoping for play by play. we could be more clear about communicating what the watch party is. I appreciate JBluegill's feedback!
also sometimes Flo does acquire audio media rights to events and we will do play-by-play. still no video on those tho. 

There ya go! Mistake and misunderstanding on my end. My sincerest apologies!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I'm not a Flo subscriber but as opposed to the premise of this thread, I can actually see some value in a watch party format.  I am someone who has friends and family that are entirely disinterested in the sport.  I talk about the latest on DeSanto and they don't have a clue what I'm talking about.  Instead of just being a stream provider, there is some value on creating a community or a little ecosystem in which people can be more engaged.  

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