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Jimmy Cinnabon

Penn State is not a threat this season

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2 minutes ago, Elevator said:

True - but the size disparity was similar in his match against Oregon State.  Credit to him for finding a way to overcome.

As to the overall strength of PSU to challenge Iowa in a tournament, it will take some development/improvement at the noted weights, but PSU has been good at this.  As to Kerk, is his size much different than Cassar's when he won it?   On the bright side for PSU, Dean and Beard provide great depth and quaility at 197 that may catch and pass Warner (50/50) - both with impressive wins over a pretty tough Army wrestler.  

I wasn't so sure Dean would look better than Beard, but he really has. He has pretty quick feet for a 197. 

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8 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

 

 

Witness the post above yours. 

So it is crap to say a guy is going to take 3r-7th?  Wow, if that is crap I would hate to see what you consider really bad.  

With that said, Kerk DID seem to get punished by the bigger 285's.  Cass ragdolled him and so did Schultz.  Now, maybe his health changes that but we actually need to SEE it on the mat before crowning him.  How do you not see that as "fair" vs. being "crap"?

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1 minute ago, MSU158 said:

So it is crap to say a guy is going to take 3r-7th?  Wow, if that is crap I would hate to see what you consider really bad.  

With that said, Kerk DID seem to get punished by the bigger 285's.  Cass ragdolled him and so did Schultz.  Now, maybe his health changes that but we actually need to SEE it on the mat before crowning him.  How do you not see that as "fair" vs. being "crap"?

Lol yes.  I think Kerk is amazing, but he's not beating elite, big heavies like Gable, Cass and Schultz.  Just too much horsepower for a finesse HWT like Kerk.

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1 minute ago, TBar1977 said:

I wasn't so sure Dean would look better than Beard, but he really has. He has pretty quick feet for a 197. 

Dean has impressed me early, but I think Beard and Dean have both improved.  Dean's pace and intensity is relentless and I think Beard has picked up his work rate as well.

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141 - Eierman could easily lose in the consi semis considering there are 4 other top tier guys at the weight that could all beat one another(downside)

149 I find it unlikely that Beau Bartlett outcompetes Murin at NCAAs, so the gap here widens for Iowa

157 Young is a 6-8

165 has plenty of people that can beat Marinelli but he is the best in the Big Ten so he will come to the NCAAs with a great seed, as always, but who knows what happens. Cannot wait to see him and Kharchla

174 I am not sure Mekhi and Hidlay are not right there with Kemerer. He could totally not make the finals

184 No AA for Iowa

197 Warner is no doubt top 5

HWT I thin Kerk is the future for the US. I think he gets 2nd

With all that being said, I see plenty of downside for Iowa, but to make the argument that there is more downside on their tournament team points than Penn State is hard because they have 4 returning champs, so that will be hard to repeat so Penn State's likelihood of closing the gap seems small. I say Iowa takes it. 

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2 minutes ago, Elevator said:

 

Dean has impressed me early, but I think Beard and Dean have both improved.  Dean's pace and intensity is relentless and I think Beard has picked up his work rate as well.

I have not seen Beard wrestle yet. When I wrote Dean looked better than Beard, I was talking the Beard of last year's NCAAs. 

Edited by TBar1977

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11 minutes ago, Elevator said:

True - but the size disparity was similar in his match against Oregon State.  Credit to him for finding a way to overcome.

As to the overall strength of PSU to challenge Iowa in a tournament, it will take some development/improvement at the noted weights, but PSU has been good at this.  As to Kerk, is his size much different than Cassar's when he won it?   On the bright side for PSU, Dean and Beard provide great depth and quaility at 197 that may catch and pass Warner (50/50) - both with impressive wins over a pretty tough Army wrestler.  

Crooks from Oregon state is a 6th year senior lol, Bartlett was a true 18 yr old freshman last season, he’s still a young guy , and I agree he’s on the smaller side of the weight bc he’s a true 141 right now but I don’t think it’ll hurt him as much this year

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12 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

I wasn't so sure Dean would look better than Beard, but he really has. He has pretty quick feet for a 197. 

He was always good on the mat but he seems to have jumped levels on top and I thought he would look small but he seems fine for the weight 

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5 minutes ago, juniorvarsity said:

141 - Eierman could easily lose in the consi semis considering there are 4 other top tier guys at the weight that could all beat one another(downside)

149 I find it unlikely that Beau Bartlett outcompetes Murin at NCAAs, so the gap here widens for Iowa

157 Young is a 6-8

165 has plenty of people that can beat Marinelli but he is the best in the Big Ten so he will come to the NCAAs with a great seed, as always, but who knows what happens. Cannot wait to see him and Kharchla

174 I am not sure Mekhi and Hidlay are not right there with Kemerer. He could totally not make the finals

184 No AA for Iowa

197 Warner is no doubt top 5

HWT I thin Kerk is the future for the US. I think he gets 2nd

With all that being said, I see plenty of downside for Iowa, but to make the argument that there is more downside on their tournament team points than Penn State is hard because they have 4 returning champs, so that will be hard to repeat so Penn State's likelihood of closing the gap seems small. I say Iowa takes it. 

I have no issue with anything you said, except at 141 and 174 you can't say that about Eierman and Kemerer without also including Lee and Starocci.  They both went 1-1 against their counterparts and the last wins were both in OT.  So, I don't see how you can say those things could happen to Eierman and Kemerer without saying the same thing about Lee and Starocci...

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8 minutes ago, juniorvarsity said:

141 - Eierman could easily lose in the consi semis considering there are 4 other top tier guys at the weight that could all beat one another(downside)

149 I find it unlikely that Beau Bartlett outcompetes Murin at NCAAs, so the gap here widens for Iowa

157 Young is a 6-8

165 has plenty of people that can beat Marinelli but he is the best in the Big Ten so he will come to the NCAAs with a great seed, as always, but who knows what happens. Cannot wait to see him and Kharchla

174 I am not sure Mekhi and Hidlay are not right there with Kemerer. He could totally not make the finals

184 No AA for Iowa

197 Warner is no doubt top 5

HWT I thin Kerk is the future for the US. I think he gets 2nd

With all that being said, I see plenty of downside for Iowa, but to make the argument that there is more downside on their tournament team points than Penn State is hard because they have 4 returning champs, so that will be hard to repeat so Penn State's likelihood of closing the gap seems small. I say Iowa takes it. 

I think we’ll know more about mehki at 174 after tonight. He gets a tough out against the bucks tonight 

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48 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

I know you follow all these threads and you know Hildebrandt will be the 125 ,

Barlett isnt very aggressive but his defense is already elite, he can lose to some guys but he can also probably beat anyone other then yianni at 149 …

Warner 2-4? Hitting the bottle early today huh? Warner may be finish lower then 4th in the big ten, Dean, Amos, Brucki, Caffey, Schultz, Bulsak, …I’d favor 4 of them over Warner and wouldn’t be surprised to see the other 2 beat him 

 

 

another year another season of Jimmy cinnamon pop tarts trolling 

There's a guy named Darmstadt who will also figure in the top few (and who beat Brucki twice; a guy Warner lost to).

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44 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

So, Bartlett can beat "anyone" at 149 but Yianni when he didn't even qualify for NCAA's last season.  But, Warner probably loses to at least 6 guys when he has AA'd EVERY time he has wrestled and took 4th last season only losing to Ferrari and Amine?  I give you credit those blue and white glasses have to be permanently attached to your head!

Brucki, to whom Warner has a loss, and Darmstadt who dominated Brucki in their last meeting, weren't at the NCAAs last year.

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Just now, klehner said:

There's a guy named Darmstadt who will also figure in the top few (and who beat Brucki twice; a guy Warner lost to).

It feels like it has been SOOOOO LONG since Darmstadt has wrestled healthy, that I have NO CLUE what to expect.  Even though he wrestled in 2020, the starting off at 184 before moving back up to 197 threw me off and he took a few weird losses(especially Whitman).  I was a huge fan of him early on and he was really fun to watch.  Do you know if he is fully healthy now and is back to that early form or better?

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1 minute ago, klehner said:

Brucki, to whom Warner has a loss, and Darmstadt who dominated Brucki in their last meeting, weren't at the NCAAs last year.

I am definitely aware of both.  I listed Brucki(whom Warner also beat) in a different post and I just replied to you about Darmstadt in another...

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23 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

There is NOTHING worse in wrestling than whining about a pin not being called like it should have been.  It wasn't get over it.  The part of that situation that is considerably more telling is that he CAME BACK from that deficit to win the match and 4 more after that.

 

To be clear, he beat Caffey and Woodley in that tournament.  On top of that he has beaten Schultz and Brucki and placed above Elam, Norfleet and Sloan in that same tournament.  197 also had Amine in it whom I would put ahead of anyone you added to the group.

 

Now, my issue isn't so much saying Warner is beatable, it is calling for it when he has done as well as he has while calling for Bartlett to win matches over guys he HAS yet to beat.  Do you not see the bias?

I didn’t call for Bartlett to beat anyone, I said “ he could lose to some guys but he can probably beat anyone other then yianni at the weight” which I think he showed last year when he was smaller and took Sasso to the wire, he can knock off anyone at the weight when he’s on

 

Warner has also been teched by Sloan, lost mutiple times to Brucki, lost to Schultz, lost to Woodley, he’s lost to Jay Aiello , hell Thomas Lane beat him an ncaas one year …now add in Amos and Dean who I would take over him, then Elam, Bonocorsi , Ferrari, that’s an real deep weight, Warner is closer to losing in the R12 then he is to being top 4 

and I forgot the Cornell guys , you confidently take Warner over Darmstadt? Hell I’d favor Warner but Cardenas is the real deal and would be right there with him 

Edited by Antitroll2828

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MSU, I called pastry boy's post crap because he claimed Kerk would get "Cassiopi'd by any AA caliber guy above 260 when he knows Kerk has already beaten multiple AA guys who are either above 260 or pretty darn close. His thesis is stupid. 

He should have just said that he thinks those other guys are better. 

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I know Jimmy is trolling and needs to pay his debts, but PSU returns 4 National champs, obviously they’re still a threat.

Iowa’s team is basically the same.  The wildcard is Marinelli, he’s really the only one with much upside from last year.   The rest of their team wrestled pretty well overall - maybe Eierman or Kemerer win it, but maybe Warner or DeSanto do worse.

Of course one or more of the PSU champs may not repeat, but they all have to be the favorites right now except for maybe Yianni if he goes 141.

Even if you assume no Hildebrandt, Howard only scored 1.5 so that’s not a huge loss vs LY.  Bartlett is their main wildcard IMO, he’ll definitely score some points compared to 0 last year, the question is how many.  Joe Lee was another zero, and Berge only scored 3, so they could certainly match or beat that at 157/165.  And could certainly see Kerk and 197 improving vs last year.

With Hildebrandt I’d maybe go as far as calling them the favorites.  Should be a fun team race.

 

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16 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Crooks from Oregon state is a 6th year senior lol, Bartlett was a true 18 yr old freshman last season, he’s still a young guy , and I agree he’s on the smaller side of the weight bc he’s a true 141 right now but I don’t think it’ll hurt him as much this year

I agree with your POV. Ogunsanya last nite looked a full weight class bigger, but it was Bartlett who got the TD. His finish on that TD was super clean too.

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8 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

It feels like it has been SOOOOO LONG since Darmstadt has wrestled healthy, that I have NO CLUE what to expect.  Even though he wrestled in 2020, the starting off at 184 before moving back up to 197 threw me off and he took a few weird losses(especially Whitman).  I was a huge fan of him early on and he was really fun to watch.  Do you know if he is fully healthy now and is back to that early form or better?

Darmstadt had two losses at 197:  one when he was sick, and one in which he was on the way to a tech fall until he fell into the stands and injury defaulted.  I guess those counted as "weird losses" but shouldn't have thrown you off.

I have no reason to believe he won't be at least as good as he was in 2020.  As for health, we'll hopefully see tomorrow night.

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2 minutes ago, NJDan said:

It's insane to say they are "not a threat." Not only do they have 4 returning champs, they have Max Dean. That's 5 possible champs. Pretty hard NOT to win the team title with five champs.

They had 4 champs last year and didn't win it.  Dean is not a sure thing either.

Iowa has just as good of a chance at 4 champs but the difference is they have a good chance at 10 AAs.  Penn State I see having 7 AAs, tops.

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Just now, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

They had 4 champs last year and didn't win it.  Dean is not a sure thing either.

Iowa has just as good of a chance at 4 champs but the difference is they have a good chance at 10 AAs.  Penn State I see having 7 AAs, tops.

You can predict they won't win it, but to say "not a threat" is insane.

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