Penn State is not a threat this season

[Antitroll2828 987]

2 minutes ago, NJDan said:

It's insane to say they are "not a threat." Not only do they have 4 returning champs, they have Max Dean. That's 5 possible champs. Pretty hard NOT to win the team title with five champs.

Max Dean has long been under valued on this forum for years now and I don’t know why, he has 2 years of eligibility left , he could end up a 4x AA , 3 time finalist when it’s all said and done 

[Antitroll2828 987]

1 minute ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

They had 4 champs last year and didn't win it.  Dean is not a sure thing either.

Iowa has just as good of a chance at 4 champs but the difference is they have a good chance at 10 AAs.  Penn State I see having 7 AAs, tops.

How do they have a good chance at 10 AAs when their 184 sat out last year then just lost in the Luther Open finals to a high school kid lol are we saying that high school kid would have a good chance of AAing this year too?

[MSU158 1,978]

Just now, Antitroll2828 said:

I didn’t call for Bartlett to beat anyone, I said “ he could lose to some guys but he can probably beat anyone other then yianni at the weight” which I think he showed last year when he was smaller and took Sasso to the wire, he can knock off anyone at the weight when he’s on

 

Warner has also been teched by Sloan, lost mutiple times to Brucki, lost to Schultz, lost to Woodley, he’s lost to Jay Aiello , hell Thomas Lane beat him an ncaas one year …now add in Amos and Dean who I would take over him, then Elam, Bonocorsi , Ferrari, that’s an real deep weight, Warner is closer to losing in the R12 then he is to being top 4 

That transitive property thing is LAUGHABLE.  In no world can you say a guy who has AA'd EVERY time he has competed is closer to losing in the R12 than being top 4,  especially when one of the years he PLACED top 4.

1.  The TF loss to Sloan happened in 2018, which will be 5 calendar years before this upcoming NCAA's.  Since then, he placed AA'd at NCAA's both times and Sloan has yet to AA.

2.)  You went back to the year Warner redshirted to get his 2nd loss to Brucki.  So, do you now count Sanderson as having a loss since he lost as a redshirt?

Can he lose to the guys you named?  Absolutely.  Would it be fair to so he is "likely" to lose to many of them?  Absolutely not...

[wrestlingphish 1,011]

1 minute ago, Antitroll2828 said:

How do they have a good chance at 10 AAs when their 184 sat out last year then just lost in the Luther Open finals to a high school kid lol are we saying that high school kid would have a good chance of AAing this year too?

Well, no the high school kid does not have a good chance because he is not eligible. He actually has no chance. Let me know if you need any more help. 

[juniorvarsity 15]

Just now, MSU158 said:

I have no issue with anything you said, except at 141 and 174 you can't say that about Eierman and Kemerer without also including Lee and Starocci.  They both went 1-1 against their counterparts and the last wins were both in OT.  So, I don't see how you can say those things could happen to Eierman and Kemerer without saying the same thing about Lee and Starocci...

That is a fair point and I agree. That is why I think Penn State has more downside than Iowa on their currently projected tournament team points(based on ranking). 

[juniorvarsity 15]

Just now, MSU158 said:

I have no issue with anything you said, except at 141 and 174 you can't say that about Eierman and Kemerer without also including Lee and Starocci.  They both went 1-1 against their counterparts and the last wins were both in OT.  So, I don't see how you can say those things could happen to Eierman and Kemerer without saying the same thing about Lee and Starocci...

That is a fair point and I agree. That is why I think Penn State has more downside than Iowa on their currently projected tournament team points(based on ranking). 

[TBar1977 4,481]

4 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

They had 4 champs last year and didn't win it.  Dean is not a sure thing either.

Iowa has just as good of a chance at 4 champs but the difference is they have a good chance at 10 AAs.  Penn State I see having 7 AAs, tops.

Iowa has a good chance at 4 champs? You know this isn't the 1990's, right? 

Lee I will give you. Mark that one down. 

You then have to believe 141, 165 and 174 have a chance. All of them wilted the last time they had a chance, and the field looks stronger at two of those weights. If Yianni is at 141 then take that one away as well. He isn't beating Yianni and Nick Lee back to back. 

[MSU158 1,978]

12 minutes ago, Lurker said:

LOL #1  Tbar and MSU working toward Tbar and Russel/duck/whatevers levels

LOL#2 cinnabitch trying to get some bets going

LOL#3 trying to instruct what someone can and cannot do when forming there own personal opinion.

Re: LOL #1:  I know you are my resident hater, but please expound a bit on that 1st one.  Russel/duck/whatevers doesn't resonate for me...

Re: LOL #3:  How can you have a debate without specifically talking about how that personal opinion was formed.  By definition, said debating would call into question how you formed it.  We aren't saying it is against the law and you should be executed for doing so.  It is simply the part that causes the debate to happen in the 1st place.  For the record I ENJOY the debate and hold ZERO ill will towards those that have differing opinions, even if those differences are vast!

[TBar1977 4,481]

4 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

That transitive property thing is LAUGHABLE.  In no world can you say a guy who has AA'd EVERY time he has competed is closer to losing in the R12 than being top 4,  especially when one of the years he PLACED top 4.

1.  The TF loss to Sloan happened in 2018, which will be 5 calendar years before this upcoming NCAA's.  Since then, he placed AA'd at NCAA's both times and Sloan has yet to AA.

2.)  You went back to the year Warner redshirted to get his 2nd loss to Brucki.  So, do you now count Sanderson as having a loss since he lost as a redshirt?

Can he lose to the guys you named?  Absolutely.  Would it be fair to so he is "likely" to lose to many of them?  Absolutely not...

December 29, 2018 to March 2022 is 3 years and 3 months, not 5 years. I know you are now going to write 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, and 2022 and claim 5 calendar years, but try to keep this on the up and up for once. 

[MSU158 1,978]

4 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Iowa has a good chance at 4 champs? You know this isn't the 1990's, right? 

Lee I will give you. Mark that one down. 

You then have to believe 141, 165 and 174 have a chance. All of them wilted the last time they had a chance, and the field looks stronger at two of those weights. If Yianni is at 141 then take that one away as well. He isn't beating Yianni and Nick Lee back to back. 

For the record, they had 3 in 2010 with 2 other Finalists.    Saying 141 and 174 "wilted" when they lost in OT is pretty laughable.  165, is simply a brutal weight class and the guy broke ribs.  S

Simply put, saying they have a good chance isn't ridiculous.  Predicting it, on the other hand, is going out on a limb a bit...

[MSU158 1,978]

12 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

December 29, 2018 to March 2022 is 3 years and 3 months, not 5 years. I know you are now going to write 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, and 2022 and claim 5 calendar years, but try to keep this on the up and up for once. 

I specified 5 "calendar years" for a reason.  I figured anyone here would still be smart enough to be able to do simple math. Still, 3 years and 3 months is still a LOOOOONG time in DI wrestling, is it not?

Edited November 19, 2021 by MSU158

[TBar1977 4,481]

5 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

For the record, they had 3 in 2010 with 2 other Finalists.    Saying 141 and 174 "wilted" when they lost in OT is pretty laughable.  165, is simply a brutal weight class and the guy broke ribs.  S

Simply put, saying they have a good chance isn't ridiculous.  Predicting it, on the other hand, is going out on a limb a bit...

Then let's put it this way. 141 lost to a guy he had beaten twice before, and 174 lost to a FRESHMAN he had beaten twice before. 

165 has underperformed his seed 3 times now. I think he can right that ship this time, maybe. If they protect him all year he may somehow get the 1 seed again and then I would predict underperformance again. That 1 seed may be hard though given the way Griffiths beat Wittlake. 

Edited November 19, 2021 by TBar1977

[TBar1977 4,481]

5 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

I specified 5 "calendar years" for a reason.  I figured anyone hear would still be smart enough to be able to do simple math. Still, 3 years and 3 months is still a LOOOOONG time in DI wrestling, is it not?

Hear? 

[Lurker 2,033]

8 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

Re: LOL #1:  I know you are my resident hater, but please expound a bit on that 1st one.  Russel/duck/whatevers doesn't resonate for me...

Re: LOL #3:  How can you have a debate without specifically talking about how that personal opinion was formed.  By definition, said debating would call into question how you formed it.  We aren't saying it is against the law and you should be executed for doing so.  It is simply the part that causes the debate to happen in the 1st place.  For the record I ENJOY the debate and hold ZERO ill will towards those that have differing opinions, even if those differences are vast!

If you haven't had the pleasure to experience some of the past conversations between the two, it's not easy to explain.

On another note, I'm a hater of no one. 

[1032004 1,406]

13 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Iowa has a good chance at 4 champs? You know this isn't the 1990's, right? 

Lee I will give you. Mark that one down. 

You then have to believe 141, 165 and 174 have a chance. All of them wilted the last time they had a chance, and the field looks stronger at two of those weights. If Yianni is at 141 then take that one away as well. He isn't beating Yianni and Nick Lee back to back. 

Is the question does Iowa have just as good of a chance at 4 champs as PSU has at 5?  Or 4?  4, no.  5 could maybe be an argument.  I mean you could probably even throw in DeSanto and Warner as having a “chance.”

[TBar1977 4,481]

7 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

For the record, they had 3 in 2010 with 2 other Finalists.    Saying 141 and 174 "wilted" when they lost in OT is pretty laughable.  165, is simply a brutal weight class and the guy broke ribs.  S

Simply put, saying they have a good chance isn't ridiculous.  Predicting it, on the other hand, is going out on a limb a bit...

So 13 calendar years ago they came somewhat close to equaling what PSU's current line up actually did last year? 

[MSU158 1,978]

1 minute ago, TBar1977 said:

Hear? 

Really, that is what you go after?  Any chance I was voice texting and didn't proofread?  

[MSU158 1,978]

2 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

So 13 calendar years ago they came somewhat close to equaling what PSU's current line up actually did last year? 

Hey, you were the one that said the 1990's...

[TBar1977 4,481]

Just now, 1032004 said:

Is the question does Iowa have just as good of a chance at 4 champs as PSU has at 5?  Or 4?  4, no.  5 could maybe be an argument.  I mean you could probably even throw in DeSanto and Warner as having a “chance.”

Desanto is a really good wrestler, but just not as good as RBY or Fix. Add in Arujau and Suriano - I know he has a Carver W over Suriano - if they wrestle. Warner I give no shot. Too many good/better wrestlers in that field. 

[TBar1977 4,481]

Just now, MSU158 said:

Hey, you were the one that said the 1990's...

When is the last time they had 4 champs?

[MSU158 1,978]

3 minutes ago, Lurker said:

If you haven't had the pleasure to experience some of the past conversations between the two, it's not easy to explain.

On another note, I'm a hater of no one. 

I get it now.  You were referencing debates Tbar had with other posters, while abbreviating those posters names.

Hate was a bit of a strong word, but many of your posts in regards to me seem to show substantial disdain...

[MSU158 1,978]

1 minute ago, TBar1977 said:

When is the last time they had 4 champs?

But your response was to some saying they have a good chance to have 4 champs, NOT that they WILL have 4.  I was simply showing you a year MUCH more recent where saying they had a "good chance" to have 4 champs was more than fair...

[Lurker 2,033]

Just now, MSU158 said:

I get it now.  You were referencing debates Tbar had with other posters, while abbreviating those posters names.

Hate was a bit of a strong word, but many of your posts in regards to me seem to show substantial disdain...

Well....I don't really have 'many' posts in regards to you.  In the ones I do, I assure you there is no substantial disdain, more like entertainment within the things you say.

[MSU158 1,978]

16 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Then let's put it this way. 141 lost to a guy he had beaten twice before, and 174 lost to a FRESHMAN he had beaten twice before. 

165 has underperformed his seed 3 times now. I think he can right that ship this time, maybe. If they protect him all year he may somehow get the 1 seed again and then I would predict underperformance again. That 1 seed may be hard though given the way Griffiths beat Wittlake. 

To be fair, Eierman lost to a guy he barely beat 6-5 less than 2 weeks prior and had lost convincingly to in the offseason.  His other win was in Lee's redshirt freshman season.  Nick Lee last season was inarguably WAAAAY better than he was as a RSFR.  Everyone that knew wrestling, knew that match was a coin flip.

When did Kemerer beat Starocci for the 2nd time?

Finally, Marinelli is an enigma.  He is good enough to beat anyone at the weight and usually  does.  He just hasn't had things go his way at NCAA's, but yet he can win the B1G's over a 2x NCAA Champ.  So, I think it is totally fair for you to predict another underperformance.  But, it is also fair to say he has a good chance to win.  He can beat anyone at the weight, he just needs to prove he can do it at NCAA's.

[1032004 1,406]

18 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Desanto is a really good wrestler, but just not as good as RBY or Fix. Add in Arujau and Suriano - I know he has a Carver W over Suriano - if they wrestle. Warner I give no shot. Too many good/better wrestlers in that field. 

I think Warner has a chance moreso because 197 is so wide open.  But he also has a chance to not place at all.

DeSanto can beat anyone in the field and has beaten most of them except Fix.   The question is if he can put/keep it together over a tournament.  But in his senior year maybe he has another vision quest thing going.

And of course that’s in addition to the closest thing you can get to a guaranteed champ, 2 guys who lost in SV in the finals, and a guy who’s been the #1 seed in the last 3 tournaments despite disappointing in the last 2 that actually happened.

I was really just saying I think they have 6 guys who “could” win if everything went right.  So I think you could definitely argue that Iowa has as good of a chance at 4 champs as PSU has at 5.