Thoughts on the NCAA rule changes for wrestling overtime?

[Bronco 231]

The two new rule changes for NCAA wrestling overtime are the following:

1. Sudden Death overtime # 1 is now 2 minutes in length as opposed to 1 minute

2. If the score is tied at the end of ANY overtime period then the winner will be decided by riding time. If one wrestler has just ONE second more riding time than his opponent that one second of riding time will determine the winner of that match.

Personally I'm all for the change from 1 minute to 2 minutes. But I'm against deciding an overtime match by as little as one second of riding time.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Bronco

[Crotalus 592]

The two new rule changes for NCAA wrestling overtime are the following:

1. Sudden Death overtime # 1 is now 2 minutes in length as opposed to 1 minute

2. If the score is tied at the end of ANY overtime period then the winner will be decided by riding time. If one wrestler has just ONE second more riding time than his opponent that one second of riding time will determine the winner of that match.

Personally I'm all for the change from 1 minute to 2 minutes. But I'm against deciding an overtime match by as little as one second of riding time.

I haven't read up on the changes before, but using my powers of deduction, that would mean only one overtime period unless riding time is tied?

I definitely like the 2 min overtime. And I'm fine with the riding time, too. Similar to freestyle rules, it basically gives a criteria for who is leading and would be known prior to the overtime period beginning. Whoever is behind will have to go out and score, and the other guy can't risk stalling for 2 mins so they will have to engage (theoretically).

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[Jim L 326]

Really not understanding riding time criteria. so score is tied after end of regulation then two minute sudden death, that makes sense.

And then if in the rare case that riding time is exactly tied, then they go to 30 second rideouts?

[Wrestleknownothing 1,462]

5 minutes ago, Crotalus said:

I haven't read up on the changes before, but using my powers of deduction, that would mean only one overtime period unless riding time is tied?

I definitely like the 2 min overtime. And I'm fine with the riding time, too. Similar to freestyle rules, it basically gives a criteria for who is leading and would be known prior to the overtime period beginning. Whoever is behind will have to go out and score, and the other guy can't risk stalling for 2 mins so they will have to engage (theoretically).

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The subtle difference to freestyle rules is that other than the initial 0-0, there is never a point in a freestyle match where it is tied. Someone is always behind.

These rule changes did not affect that dynamic for SV1. In addition to adding a minute to SV1, it only moved the riding time advantage portion of the old rule from the second set of tie-breaker periods to the first set of tie-breaker periods. That means there can still be extended periods where there is a tie in folkstyle, even in the overtimes.

I do prefer the freestyle idea that someone is always trailing in a match after the mandatory shot clock actions or the first score. 

[Wrestleknownothing 1,462]

6 minutes ago, Jim L said:

Really not understanding riding time criteria. so score is tied after end of regulation then two minute sudden death, that makes sense.

And then if in the rare case that riding time is exactly tied, then they go to 30 second rideouts?

1.) Riding time from regulation is wiped out (I believe, but someone check me on this).

2.) SV1 for 2 minutes - any score wins

3.) Two 30 second tie-breakers where each wrestler chooses their starting position. If at the end of the two tie-breakers the score is still tied, the wrestler who has any riding time advantage wins. If no riding time advantage then...

4.) SV2 for 1 minute. - any score wins

5.) repeat steps 3 and 4 until there is a winner.

[SetonHallPirate 988]

10 minutes ago, Jim L said:

Really not understanding riding time criteria. so score is tied after end of regulation then two minute sudden death, that makes sense.

And then if in the rare case that riding time is exactly tied, then they go to 30 second rideouts?

No. RT is reset at the end of regulation. If RT at the end of the first SV is one minute or more (possible, but will be rare), then the wrestler who has RT gets the RT point and the match.

If RT at the end of the first set of tiebreaker periods is one second or more, whoever has RT wins the match.

[Jaroslav Hasek 2,047]

its an improvement imo. and an important step toward getting to having a tiebreaker decide the match at the end of regulation. as more and more people are noticing, matches are more exciting when someone is losing with time running out. 

NCAA also still very badly needs a step out penalty. that would drastically improve the action in sudden victory. 

[Wrestleknownothing 1,462]

4 minutes ago, SetonHallPirate said:

No. RT is reset at the end of regulation. If RT at the end of the first SV is one minute or more (possible, but will be rare), then the wrestler who has RT gets the RT point and the match.

If RT at the end of the first set of tiebreaker periods is one second or more, whoever has RT wins the match.

Now I am confused. You are much more well versed in these things than I. I was under the impression that the SV1 started in neutral and ended with first score. If so, how do you accrue riding time in the SV?

[SetonHallPirate 988]

5 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Now I am confused. You are much more well versed in these things than I. I was under the impression that the SV1 started in neutral and ended with first score. If so, how do you accrue riding time in the SV?

Wrestler takes a first injury timeout sometime in SV, and the other wrestler chooses top or bottom.

[Wrestleknownothing 1,462]

Just now, SetonHallPirate said:

Wrestler takes a first injury timeout sometime in SV, and the other wrestler chooses top or bottom.

see, I knew I was missing something.

[NJDan 1,070]

1 hour ago, Jim L said:

Really not understanding riding time criteria. so score is tied after end of regulation then two minute sudden death, that makes sense.

And then if in the rare case that riding time is exactly tied, then they go to 30 second rideouts?

Wouldn't be rare. In the first 2-minute OT, if no one gets a TD, then riding time is tied.

[Nicholas Strub 6]

Start overtime in small circle and have a step out rule for it. First points win. After 30 seconds, if no one scores double DQ. Should been a quick sequence.

[DanGerMan 151]

1 hour ago, Nicholas Strub said:

Start overtime in small circle and have a step out rule for it. First points win. After 30 seconds, if no one scores double DQ. Should been a quick sequence.

Shades of Sumo.

[BigTenFanboy 1,790]

If the score is tied at the end of regulation.. just keep the clock going for up to 2 min for SV1 instead or restarting at the center for SV1. This way a defensive wrestler can’t be saved by the buzzer.

[Plasmodium 2,232]

Hear me out.

Let's flip a coin and start guys with one of them in an advantage position.  If the one in the advantage position scores within 30 seconds, he wins.  Otherwise, the other guy wins.

[BerniePragle 379]

On 11/19/2021 at 5:54 PM, NJDan said:

Wouldn't be rare. In the first 2-minute OT, if no one gets a TD, then riding time is tied.

The 2 minute waltz as a buddy of mine used to say.

[Idaho 1,330]

Just start them on their feet in OT with no clock. First takedown wins. The end. 

[whaletail 240]

Although a step in the right direction I guess, I'm not sure the new rules will substantively change average match length or most wrestlers' OT strategy/mentality.

I hope I'm wrong, and we see more matches decided in SV1, but I don't see the clear incentive(s) shift that drives most useful rule changes.

[gimpeltf 2,045]

7 minutes ago, Idaho said:

Just start them on their feet in OT with no clock. First takedown wins. The end. 

They tried that about 30 years ago when they first started doing this kind of ot. First trial tournament- they sent a hwt to the hospital.

7 minutes ago, whaletail said:

Although a step in the right direction I guess, I'm not sure the new rules will substantively change average match length or most wrestlers' OT strategy/mentality.

I hope I'm wrong, and we see more matches decided in SV1, but I don't see the clear incentive(s) shift that drives most useful rule changes.

I believe it did at Journeymen at Spooky Nook. Anecdotally, I believe fewer got out of the first SV and to my knowledge, no one got into the second set of ot with maybe 2 decided by rt in the first set. Neither of those would have determined the winner previously.

[Crotalus 592]

Hear me out.
Let's flip a coin and start guys with one of them in an advantage position.  If the one in the advantage position scores within 30 seconds, he wins.  Otherwise, the other guy wins.

I like the direction you're heading, but I think we need them to start in a clinch and if one guy breaks their lock without scoring, they lose.

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[gimpeltf 2,045]

To add- At ESU there were one or two SVs at or over 1 minute and no rts after tb so no major improvement there.

[gimpeltf 2,045]

1 minute ago, Crotalus said:

I like the direction you're heading, but I think we need them to start in a clinch and if one guy breaks their lock without scoring, they lose.

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Don't forget to do a ball grab!

[Plasmodium 2,232]

1 minute ago, gimpeltf said:

Don't forget to do a ball grab!

Love it.  Why has no one else thought of this?

[Nicholas Strub 6]

I went on a recruiting visit at the end of my senior year. One of the activities I got involved with during my visit was a friendly sumo competition with one of my hosts. We even wore those cute sumo outfits. It was best 2 out of 3 if my memory serves me correctly.

[bnwtwg 1,034]

21 hours ago, Nicholas Strub said:

Start overtime in small circle and have a step out rule for it. First points win. After 30 seconds, if no one scores double DQ. Should been a quick sequence.

 

20 hours ago, DanGerMan said:

Shades of Sumo.

Cant even imagine how bad the complaints would be against the dancing bear weight class