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Glory ducks Iowa

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28 minutes ago, Perry said:

If Iowa has a chink in the armor right now it's the inability to fight off their back in the rare moment they get put there. Lee, Marinelli, Cass.. it's a trend as far as I see it. 

Stud wrestlers are rarely on their back, so they have little practice getting off of it.  Heavyweights as a group almost always get pinned when they are on their back in a tight hold.

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53 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

I doubt Princeton went in thinking they were going to knock off iowa , so I don’t think the 9 point swing mattered

It’s not about the point swing. It’s about team culture. 
 

and, my cynical view is glory threw a tantrum and Ayer’s (correctly) covered his athlete publicly 

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18 minutes ago, flyingcement said:

I think Glory did the right thing and anyone who says otherwise is probably biased.  

What's "right" about it? Maybe it's understandable or OK. but "right"?

For me, I'd go with wrong or unsportsmanlike--unless it's true that he tried to make weight and failed. But in that case, the right thing would have been to put him out there against Desanto, where her would get a good match and really have nothing to lose. 

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9 minutes ago, NJDan said:

What's "right" about it? Maybe it's understandable or OK. but "right"?

For me, I'd go with wrong or unsportsmanlike--unless it's true that he tried to make weight and failed. But in that case, the right thing would have been to put him out there against Desanto, where her would get a good match and really have nothing to lose

False. 

Desanto has threatened to kill someone after two of his last three matches.  How many times will he threaten before attempting something?

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1 hour ago, hammerlockthree said:

My two cents is that this is gross on Iowa's part. And good for Ayers not putting anyone out there. I can't believe I am saying that but Ayers not giving them that match is appropriate.

Huh?  They knew Lee wasn't going to wrestle but brought Glory anyway.  Glory allegedly attempted to make weight and did not.  How is that Iowa's fault, especially since they were openly starting highly recruited Jesse Ybarra?

Iowa made it pretty public days earlier that Lee was not wrestling.

Edited by AHamilton

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8 minutes ago, NJDan said:

True, but he isn't really helping Glory and he is hurting himself.

You may not understand this, or you’ve gotten the wrong impression from some nfl films clips.
 

But a head coach should not ever throw their kid under the bus, or talk **** about them, publicly or privately. Period. Not to the press, and especially not to other coaches. You may discipline or cut them. But you don’t say they threw a tantrum and didn’t wrestle because they wanted a specific match. 
 

Any coach that doesn’t do this isn’t respected by other coaches. As in they won’t take you seriously.  And, less importantly, it looks bad and parents won’t think you truly care about the kids success. 
 

Ayer’s is a coaches coach. It’s his job to cover for Glory. Even if he’s berating, disciplining Glory behind closed doors.

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14 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

Huh?  They knew Lee wasn't going to wrestle but brought Glory anyway.  Glory allegedly attempted to make weight and did not.  How is that Iowa's fault, especially since they were openly starting highly recruited Jesse Ybarra?

Iowa made it pretty public days earlier that Lee was not wrestling.

It doesn't matter to me at all that Iowa made it obvious.

I don't know what you are talking about in regards to glory trying to make weight and not, I haven't been able to keep up on the gossip the last few days. Are you saying Glory came to wrestle, missed weight and I am incorrect for giving Ayers credit? If that's the case then you are right. 

If Iowa snubbed their guest by denying them the marquee match and doubling down on the insult with the condescending gesture of pretending they were flattering them with a back up, that's absolutely gross and Ayers was right to take a dump on their product right after they did. If Iowa is gonna hurt their own program why should Ayers prop it up. 

Please don't give this "Huh" stuff unless you really don't understand.

 

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2 hours ago, AHamilton said:

Prob 9 point swing at most.  Glory could only manage a decision over Lee's backup two years ago.

Fair enough, but my overall point stands but I respect Ayer’s for covering for his kid

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34 minutes ago, jp157 said:

You may not understand this, or you’ve gotten the wrong impression from some nfl films clips.
 

But a head coach should not ever throw their kid under the bus, or talk **** about them, publicly or privately. Period. Not to the press, and especially not to other coaches. You may discipline or cut them. But you don’t say they threw a tantrum and didn’t wrestle because they wanted a specific match. 
 

Any coach that doesn’t do this isn’t respected by other coaches. As in they won’t take you seriously.  And, less importantly, it looks bad and parents won’t think you truly care about the kids success. 
 

Ayer’s is a coaches coach. It’s his job to cover for Glory. Even if he’s berating, disciplining Glory behind closed doors.

I don't blame Ayer for defending the kid after the fact. I blame him for not sending the kid to the mat.

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7 minutes ago, hammerlockthree said:

It doesn't matter to me at all that Iowa made it obvious.

I don't know what you are talking about in regards to glory trying to make weight and not, I haven't been able to keep up on the gossip the last few days. Are you saying Glory came to wrestle, missed weight and I am incorrect for giving Ayers credit? If that's the case then you are right. 

If Iowa snubbed their guest by denying them the marquee match and doubling down on the insult with the condescending gesture of pretending they were flattering them with a back up, that's absolutely gross and Ayers was right to take a dump on their product right after they did. If Iowa is gonna hurt their own program why should Ayers prop it up. 

Please don't give this "Huh" stuff unless you really don't understand.

 

1. crazy stuff happens in duals. Cassiopi getting pinned is an omnipresent example. Glory not wrestling eliminates any chance, sends the wrong message team wise.

2. If you want to make a “statement” to Brands, Lee, and Iowa they should either 

   a. Have Glory go out and smash the backup  and call Lee out. Along with Ayer calling it out

   b. Publicly state at the time Glory isn’t wrestling since Iowa doesn’t have the decency to line up and wrestle or whatever. 


   c. State ahead of time your feelings whether or not you wrestled Glory. And/or Glory doesn’t 
 

The way it went down and looks now is.. either Glory threw a tantrum/didn’t make weight and his coach covered for him. Or it’s an undisciplined program.

Also, Calm down, it’s a November dual in a season that’s 1-2 months too long. Lee has no knees going into his senior year. The match doesn’t matter. Any validity your gripe has would come from not finding out Lee isn’t wrestling day of. 

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1 minute ago, jp157 said:

1. crazy stuff happens in duals. Cassiopi getting pinned is an omnipresent example. Glory not wrestling eliminates any chance, sends the wrong message team wise.

2. If you want to make a “statement” to Brands, Lee, and Iowa they should either 

   a. Have Glory go out and smash the backup  and call Lee out. Along with Ayer calling it out

   b. Publicly state at the time Glory isn’t wrestling since Iowa doesn’t have the decency to line up and wrestle or whatever. 


   c. State ahead of time your feelings whether or not you wrestled Glory. And/or Glory doesn’t 
 

The way it went down and looks now is.. either Glory threw a tantrum/didn’t make weight and his coach covered for him. Or it’s an undisciplined program.

Also, Calm down, it’s a November dual in a season that’s 1-2 months too long. Lee has no knees going into his senior year. The match doesn’t matter. Any validity your gripe has would come from not finding out Lee isn’t wrestling day of. 

The only thing you said that makes any sense is 2B.

the part I put in italics is just an out and out lie on your part, because they knew days in advance.

You know someone knows they are losing an argument on this forum when they say "calm down". They don't have anything else to say so they pretend this is a social situation and their antagonist is acting hysterically so they look smarter. 

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24 minutes ago, NJDan said:

I don't blame Ayer for defending the kid after the fact. I blame him for not sending the kid to the mat.

There’s not much you can do if Glory refused. If it was the plan Ayer’s would’ve said so at time. Hence why it was later to cover Glory

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1 minute ago, hammerlockthree said:

The only thing you said that makes any sense is 2B.

the part I put in italics is just an out and out lie on your part, because they knew days in advance.

You know someone knows they are losing an argument on this forum when they say "calm down". They don't have anything else to say so they pretend this is a social situation and their antagonist is acting hysterically so they look smarter. 

Nah, to the calm down part. You’re overreacting to a something that isn’t a big deal. It’s a November non-conference dual. It’s not really even an argument. It’s simply stating the facts as they are. 

No I didn’t lie. Wrestlers throwing diva tantrums day of when they find out for sure they actually won’t get the match, even if they had an idea ahead of time, isn’t unheard of. Wrestlers not making weight, isn’t unheard of. The situation looks like it could have been either. Do you expect it to happen in a program like Princeton? No. But it’s not some hyper unrealistic thing.. hell, Glory might’ve missed weight because he wasn’t taking the match as seriously since he knew Lee wasn’t wrestling. 

So no I didn’t lie. 

If Ayer’s was making a “statement” like you seem to be “arguing”. He wouldn’t wait so long to say anything. It comes across as kinda sad if it’s not him covering for his athlete. 
 

Again, it’s not that big a deal or disrespectful. They said Lee was out. It’s a meaningless November dual

 

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8 minutes ago, jp157 said:

Again, it’s not that big a deal or disrespectful. 

 

Yeah it is. they schedule these dual long in advance, they do it for mutual benefit, and Iowa is trying to sap the up side for princeton so they can guard the golden goose.

Brands' and everyone else talk about growing the sport, moves like this wreak of sitting on top of the sport and not caring how low it goes as long as they are on top.

Edited by hammerlockthree

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13 minutes ago, hammerlockthree said:

Regardless of our thoughts on his character, or Ayers, or their program.....should Lee have shown up?

So a proven senior with documented injuries not wrestling in a non conference November dual.. with the coaches openly stating he wouldn’t wrestle days ahead instead of waiting till the middle of the dual (like the brands did with Stoll against Snyder) 

is some sort of not manly/macho disrespectful ducking thing? 


Lee just won a title on no ACLs. He’s dominated Glory. Glory might have been competitive at the end of a tech and ridden a mono ravaged Lee, but the scores haven’t been close. This isn’t someone ducking a rematch from a tb riding time victory they escaped with a win. 
 

How hard is this for people to understand. Under the current competitive structure and way we evaluate programs. Duals don’t really matter. Non conference duals even less. 

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1 hour ago, hammerlockthree said:

It doesn't matter to me at all that Iowa made it obvious.

I don't know what you are talking about in regards to glory trying to make weight and not, I haven't been able to keep up on the gossip the last few days. Are you saying Glory came to wrestle, missed weight and I am incorrect for giving Ayers credit? If that's the case then you are right. 

If Iowa snubbed their guest by denying them the marquee match and doubling down on the insult with the condescending gesture of pretending they were flattering them with a back up, that's absolutely gross and Ayers was right to take a dump on their product right after they did. If Iowa is gonna hurt their own program why should Ayers prop it up. 

Please don't give this "Huh" stuff unless you really don't understand.

 

Huh?

Iowa made it clear Lee wasn't wrestling.  They announced Ybarra as the starter.  I knew this on Tuesday, and I live on the east coast.

Princeton still brought Glory.

Glory attempted to make weight.  He missed weight. A poster witnessed this.  An Iowa backup was caught on mic chastising Glory for missing weight despite being in college for 4 years.

Ayers attempted to deflect and put the blame on himself.

Huh?

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6 minutes ago, jp157 said:

So a proven senior with documented injuries not wrestling in a non conference November dual.. with the coaches openly stating he wouldn’t wrestle days ahead instead of waiting till the middle of the dual (like the brands did with Stoll against Snyder) 

is some sort of not manly/macho disrespectful ducking thing? 


Lee just won a title on no ACLs. He’s dominated Glory. Glory might have been competitive at the end of a tech and ridden a mono ravaged Lee, but the scores haven’t been close. This isn’t someone ducking a rematch from a tb riding time victory they escaped with a win. 
 

How hard is this for people to understand. Under the current competitive structure and way we evaluate programs. Duals don’t really matter. Non conference duals even less. 

I get it, Lee is admired because he excels at competing within an ultra specific set of rules, but he's gotten so good that he can ignore said rules! Why should he have to prove himself anymore, why should he have to honor the efforts of his competitors, why should he care about the fans, the sport/'duals" (duels not duals btw) can suffer because we are playing an ugly self absorbed game that's going to destroy the sport.  Gotcha!

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